Hydrogen Fuel

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Originally Posted by clean32

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;)

Paul

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Originally Posted by PAT303

I personally think that from now on we will have a mix of fuels to power the world as nothing is as good as what we have now,that is why we use it.I also think that people will loose money trying to save it as seen by the amount of people who have sold a car that uses 12ltrs per hundred and bought one that uses only 6ltrs and then brag about how much their saving.The fact they took out a loan and are paying far more in payments than they ever did in fuel doesn't come into it. Pat

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When have rational economics ever been part of a vehicle buying process?
Really none of us would own landrovers if minimal transportation cost was everyones top priority.

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Originally Posted by mcrover

In the other hydrogen thread you were talking about adding Hydrogen to Diesel.

Now Im a bit confused and Im not having a go but is it possible as I was under the impression that hydrogen is a gas and diesel is a liquid and unless it is extremely cold or under pressure hydrogen will stay a gas?

Im actually asking if this is possible as I dont actually know, Im not having a go in any way at all.

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I too would like clean32 to post more on this.

There is a process called hydrotreating or hydrodesulphurisation, however this just uses H2 to remove sulphur, creating H2S (rotten egg gas) in the process.

Hydrodesulfurization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hi all,
Looks like I might be in a dead link, this one hasn't been written t for a while, but thought that I would put my 2 cents worth in...

I have a friend with an 80 Series Tojo (and on his 3rd motor, 2nd gearbox etc), and he has just put one of these systems in his car, from the 'hydrogen garage', a firm in the US. His is a petrol motor, and he is claiming that he is getting 20-50km extra out of a tank, and the cost, $US650.00. Hmmm

I really was looking at this link to see what was around about this, I dunno, seems a little like snake oil - and I don't mean this negatively, just there seems to be a great deal of mixed feelings about this. There doesn't seem to be much 'real data' from genuine 'trusted sources' - there are lots of positive testamonials about, and conversely many negative comments about this conversion. Quietly, if I had just spend a lot of money on this system, I really would like to believe it is doing something - placebo effect, maybe??

I don't know - I think I will just sit back and watch him destroy another motor (not through the hydrogen system, just through his own trucks natural appetite for such things), and smile and wave as I go past in my good ol' S2 diesel Disco.

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Originally Posted by isuzurover

I too would like clean32 to post more on this.

There is a process called hydrotreating or hydrodesulphurisation, however this just uses H2 to remove sulphur, creating H2S (rotten egg gas) in the process.

Hydrodesulfurization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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thats the one, but read down to "Saturation of olefins" as thats what i am talking about.

I know a bloke that has one of these hydrogen systems on his aurion. Going to see if I can convince him to put is on a dyno. Then with the unit turned on and off we'll see the difference..... if there is any.

Howdy,

I spent a few lunchtimes reading throught the attached thread on another site. Interestingly similar things were being said against the idea. Enjoy the read......http://www.4wdaction.com.au/forum/sh...hp't=60566

Cheers

DaveF

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Originally Posted by clean32

thats the one, but read down to "Saturation of olefins" as thats what i am talking about.

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That is bonding H2 molecules to Olefins to form Parafins - which increases the energy density and Cetane number of diesel. I can't see that the same could happen when you add gaseous H2.


EDIT - this is interesting. http://www.autofieldguide.com/articl...0804wip21.html
This suggests there may be some benefit for petrol engines, but this is comething completely different to the HHO from water systems.

Note that they claim a 20-30% fuel saving - but most of this is due to nox reduction, knock suppression and cooling allowing them to run leaner mixtures. However it does show some benefit provided through the addition of small quantities of H2.

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Originally Posted by isuzurover

That is bonding H2 molecules to Olefins to form Parafins - which increases the energy density and Cetane number of diesel. I can't see that the same could happen when you add gaseous H2.
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H Gas + heat + pressure

But i haven sorted out a sencable way to produce a resonable amout of gas under the bonnet yet. The Jam jar and SS wire will not do it.

looks like you will need in a disco tdi about 1200 grams of H per hour, thats about 12V X 320amp total. the problem is H2O to plate area, my maths says you need about 2 meters2, or the othere way would be smaller plates and flow the H20 past the plates, but even at 150 lters per minte you would need about 500 wats just to do that

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Originally Posted by clean32

H Gas + heat + pressure

But i haven sorted out a sencable way to produce a resonable amout of gas under the bonnet yet. The Jam jar and SS wire will not do it.

looks like you will need in a disco tdi about 1200 grams of H per hour, thats about 12V X 320amp total. the problem is H2O to plate area, my maths says you need about 2 meters2, or the othere way would be smaller plates and flow the H20 past the plates, but even at 150 lters per minte you would need about 500 wats just to do that

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What I was trying to point out is that the number of atoms of each is not the only issue. e.g. Acetylene C2H2 has the highest energy content on a weight basis, bacause it is a very dense molecule.

Burning olefins with H2 gas is not the same as burning parrafins.