Lifted P38 on air - questions

[Keithy P38]

Yeah haha

What dual battery controller you end up fitting?

[Pete38]

Controller: DB-140 Controller (http://www.sidewinder.com.au/page79.html) Edit: I paid less than that on an ebay auction mind you

Battery: Neuton Power 12v 105AH Deep Cycle AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) Battery

Location: In spare wheel well, bolted down with a home made battery clamping system (where the jack used to sit in it's nice pretty foam)

Cable and connectors: Lots of Anderson plugs so the system can be disconnected and carried around (bending the knees for the 30kg battery of coarse). 4 AWG amp cable (a car amplifier power combo on special) on top of the chassis and up through the rubber bung behind the rear drivers wheel.

Maybe I should have created another thread for this... If there is on more question I'll start a new thread. Hows that sound.

[Keithy P38]

Sounds like a good setup!

I was purely interested, have one in mine already. I like to sticky beak at what others are running and how they find it!

You'll be happy with the 105ah battery - mine is running my ARB fridge right now just for the sake of using it. 2 days and its still -3! I normally get 2.5 to 3 days running the fridge real cold before I need to top the battery up.

[Keithy P38]

1hr til I can pull out the tools and finally knock the lift on the head! I'm prepping the welder as I type...

[Pete38]

Woohoo. Be good to see the pics at the end. I more wanna see the flex!!!!

[Keithy P38]

It's done, I didn't weld the spacers to the diff in the rear (didn't trust my skills and the bro was "on his way" all day but didn't arrive). I welded the spacer pins to the spacers, so effectively they are now "bosses". I didn't get the chance to take it for a drive as I've had other commitments, but I am quietly confident that its all good.

I also put my old front shocks onto the rear and removed the TF144's.

I have pics, will throw them up later via the laptop!

Cheers
Keithy

[benji]

Good on you Kiethy, you more than deserve to enjoy your hard earned work. I know you've saved me weeks and many dollars on my future suspension - thanks:thumbup:

Pbrown that sounds like my exact setup. I decided on 2awg cable as there's a winch going in atm, and a 140a circuit breaker next to the main battery.

Sent from my GT-I9305T using AULRO mobile app

[Keithy P38]

Cheers mate, ill be glad if it saves a few people a few pennies and the mistakes/engineering issues that I had.

Once I'm completely satisfied and have given it a flogging off road ill start a new thread with only the vital info, specs and more importantly, the height sensor mods needed to make everything happy. As it is now it goes into fault if the car sinks down, so it's not the end of the line for the "kit" yet, but it is complete enough to do the job without being half-done or dodgy. Just needs height sensor tweaks, and the bump stop that I'm waiting on!

Cheers
Keithy

[davidsonsm]

Yeah thanks Keith for being the pioneer of this new style/breed (as far as I'm aware) of lift kit. Indeed your leanings have been appreciated and applied. Well I hope they have.

Nora is in for the engine swap, so the lift kit I have sitting in the garage will be fitted upon her return.

[Keithy P38]

Cheers mate!

Your new engine, is it of the rover variety? Sounds interesting!

[davidsonsm]

Yeah a Rover 4.6 gems. There's a thread as follows that explains some of the trials and tribulations:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php't=178030

I have high hopes. Just hope they are realised.

[Keithy P38]

Here's hoping mate!

[Pete38]

Here's a few pics complementary from Keith...

He isn't around his laptop so asked if I could post these up for him.

[davidsonsm]

You must be rather relieved that its done - assuming it is?

Looks great. Would appreciate knowing the heights when you can. And what you're proposing regarding the bump stops and rear sensor arms.

[mtb_gary]

Well done Keithy !!!!!!!!!!! :twobeers:

Gary

[Keithy P38]

Thanks For posting them up for me Peter!
And cheers lads!

Ill be away for a week or so, upon return ill measure up! The good thing is that I must have got the sensor arms right when I lengthened them as the car sits level in all heights.

The pic of my Rangie is in Standard height, the two of the spacers on the car are with the bags deflated so it may look odd, the one of the rear spacer on its own is a shining example of my (getting there) welding skills - or moreso the development of them!

What the plan is for the height sensors, is to shorten the lower arms a bit, and lengthen the top arms and include a slight bend in the arm to prevent the chassis to arm contact. Just looking at the rears, I will need to keep 40mm of bump stop extension as the piston gets mighty close to touching the top hat of the bag, the fronts I will make a 20mm bump stop extension - all once I've modded the height sensors again.

Cheers
Keithy

[mtb_gary]

Keithy

That welding style looks very familiar, pretty much a carbon copy of my welds, ;).

Gary

[Keithy P38]

Haha does that make us both awesome :-)

[mtb_gary]

Haha does that make us both awesome :-)
Absolutely :angel:

[benji]

The welds are actually pretty damn good. Dad was a boat builder before they sold up, so I've seen hundreds of km of welding.




Sent from my GT-I9305T using AULRO mobile app

[Hoges]

Very practical! won't need to use a jack to change the oi! or grease the UJs! :D

On a more serious note... a significant increase in the c of g brings its own challenges, especially if you then add a decent load on the roof rack. Safe travels mate!

[Keithy P38]

I agree Hoges. The way I see it, for serious 4wding I used to bump up to high for ground clearance anyway, the difference now is that I'm 5mm higher in "Standard" height than I was before in "High", so the height is relative, it's the spring-rate that has changed - for good or bad I'm not certain, I'm sure that the ride quality up high will be much better now! On the same token, it's only 2" of lift - not the 5" and 35's that our Tojo and Datsun brothers quite commonly see!

If anything, keeping wheels on the ground is sure to be a better thing!

Ill let you know how it feels once I've given it a shakedown run!

Cheers
Keithy

[Hoges]

:BigThumb::BigThumb:

[Pete38]

I agree Hoges. The way I see it, for serious 4wding I used to bump up to high for ground clearance anyway, the difference now is that I'm 5mm higher in "Standard" height than I was before in "High", so the height is relative, it's the spring-rate that has changed - for good or bad I'm not certain, I'm sure that the ride quality up high will be much better now! On the same token, it's only 2" of lift - not the 5" and 35's that our Tojo and Datsun brothers quite commonly see!

If anything, keeping wheels on the ground is sure to be a better thing!

Ill let you know how it feels once I've given it a shakedown run!

Cheers
Keithy
Yeh the centre of mass is probably not even up 10 percent so not huge amounts.. Guesstimate.

[benji]

Not sure if your still looking for the figures. Just found them.


Sent from my GT-I9305T using AULRO mobile app

[Keithy P38]

Thanks Benji.

[Keithy P38]

So I welded the spacers in the rear today and took it for a run on the blacktop. So far I am impressed. As a precautionary measure I drive in low height (which sits about 15mm lower than my previous "standard"). It drove like you'd expect a P38 to drive in low! Went up to standard - low and behold it drove like a p38 in standard height! No extra body roll (even with old knackered shocks in the back as the TF144's were too long for the new application).

Of note to you other lads doing the lift now, you will need to extend your bump stops in the rear. The piston on mine is within mm of touching the top of the bag at max articulation with 45mm of extra bump stop pad.

The fronts will need to be extended, but not nearly as much. This will be for you to work out based on your height sensor mods. Mine will be 40mm.

Cheers
Keithy

[davidsonsm]

Keith. What height did your your sensors end up at? Didn't you make them 60mm. Mine are 48mm and my bumpstops have been extended 20mm all round. So I'm hoping I'll be ok, but won't know until the spacers are fitted.

Thanks for the heads up. It is a concern I had. Not straightforward, is it! What is with a p38.

[davidsonsm]

Is it just a matter of running your fingers around the bags when on the bump stops? Should imagine that's not easy.

[Keithy P38]

You're not wrong! Its been a fun journey so far! plenty of learning and r&d sessions!

I extended my rear sensors by 48mm and fronts by 23mm.

As for piston clearance, I had the air lines removed from the bags and jacked the diff up to have a feel!

Cheers
Keithy

[davidsonsm]

Sorry. Spell checker changed spacer to sensor. Either that or I've had too much wine. meant to ask what height did your spacers end up being?

[Keithy P38]

Haha I know how you feel! The home brew is going down nicely at this end too!

My front spacers are 60mm, the rears are 50.

Cheers
Keithy

[Keithy P38]

And for Gary, ill measure all heights from ground to guard and wheel centre to guard!

Cheers
Keithy

[Keithy P38]

So we've had some rain here (finally!), mud puddles and some gnarly little tracks are within 5km of home - time to put my brother's GU Patrol to shame again! This will be the first time I've driven my Rangie off-road since my cape trip in August! I'm itching to get out there!

Cheers
Keithy

[Pete38]

Exciting day ahead. Sure we'll see some photos of you flexing when you get back.... Your car that is.

[Keithy P38]

I am charging the GoPro now... Will be more than just pics!

[Keithy P38]

That was awesome! Slippery mud, boggy mud, rocks, creeks! My standard height is plenty now - ill only ever use high in real deep creek crossings!

We had a convoy of 4, an Isuzu Perentie (goanna_shire on the forum), a Classic with 200tdi, my brother's GU Pootrol and my Rangie.

The only one to diff-out was me (small 30" tyres compared to the 32's and 33's of everyone else. The classic needed a winch up this awesome mega slippery hill, other than that it was business as usual!

Ill doctor up some of the GoPro footage tomorrow and chuck it up!

Cheers
Keithy

[Keithy P38]

Still editing footage! There's about 3hrs of it and not much worth using as I bumped the GoPro a few times! Plus my laptop is old and slow making it very hard to put a good clip together! I might do another Keithy P38 highlight reel rather than just this trip out - will be easier in the long run! Hopefully by midnight guys!

[Hammer H]

We will hang in there,don't lose sleep over it

[Keithy P38]

Ill be sure not to! I've got another day before I won't be near my computer for a fair while so I'm in a hurry to get it done! I have finished the movie, now to hope my computer doesn't play up while saving it... It's not the best laptop for making movies! Has a tendency to give glitchy footage while saving :-( Fingers crossed it uploads without drama.

Have the shocks arrived to you yet mate?

[Keithy P38]

Here's the link to the video. It is still uploading (at midnight!!), so it may not have been processed if you are a night owl/early bird. Should be all uploaded by 2am at the latest.

As i've said in the video, I apologise for the quality and lack of music - it's not the camera or operator's fault, my computer does not like being worked hard so i've made it very minimalistic.

My P38 Range Rover in its travels over 2012/2013 - YouTube (http://youtu.be/sNfuSD1VlR0)

Scrap that... Computer had a hissy fit during upload...

Cheers
Keithy

[davidsonsm]

It says the video is private. We only want to see your rangey Keith. None of the blue stuff.

[Keithy P38]

Yeah at about 2am my computer stuffed up! I'm in the re-upload process now!

Will keep the private bits out ;-)

EDIT: It's uploaded now, I think the link should still work. If not, here it is again.

http://youtu.be/sNfuSD1VlR0 (http://youtu.be/sNfuSD1VlR0)

[Hammer H]

Not as of yet, cant be too far away, im also getting some overseas parts orders done now, hoping to miss the xmas rush

[Keithy P38]

I'm sure they are not far away!

I didn't think about the Chrissy rush, should put my order in with island 4x4 soon too!

[Hammer H]

Yeah its taking a few days just to confirm orders with them, last year I had to wait a month for delivery not with Island maybe DLS

Your video looks good quality, I will have to watch it all later, its an epic feature

[TheTree]

Keith

Rock on mate, great work!

Now you just need to add some accca dacca to the sound track :p

Steve

[mtb_gary]

Epic vid ;). Love the "little" creek crossings on your Cape York trip. BTW how did the GoPro hold up after getting the bush pin stripe treatment?

Gary

[Keithy P38]

Yeah no issues with the GoPro, it copped a beating and came back for more!

[Keithy P38]

How's everyone else's lift kit coming along?

I'm comfortable with mine now, and am headed out for a camping trip about 200km from home tomorrow morn. It's hard low range and locker territory, will have the GoPro mounted and hopefully get some better footage than last time - perhaps even a few photos as well!

Cheers
Keithy

[goanna_shire]

A bit envious Keithy. The Mrs is in Hospital for the weekend now so REALY a no go! Unless I can fit lockers and some 33's to a hospital bed :twisted:. You'll have to keep me updated!

Cheers,
Brian

[Keithy P38]

Sorry to hear about that mate, I hope she is ok! We will have to do some sketches and size up that hospital bed for some muddies! I think 33's might be a bit much, might chuck some 32's on it instead ;-)

With 12 vehicles going its sure to be a lot of fun! Ill let you know how it goes!

Cheers
Keithy

[Hammer H]

Hi All

I am now up to welding the the lift plates together and thank all for their input in particular Keithy & Davidson, will take shots once done. Most parts required ordered, and now waiting on parts to come in hopefully beat the xmas transport bog down.

Have found it difficult to locate a supplier for braided extended brake lines apparently the 2000 yr p38 and different to the earlier p38.

Im now looking at the height sensors and leaning towards extending top and bottom arms 25mm each for rear as davidson has it Keithy has indicated he may do the same.

With the fronts is there any advantage/disadvantage to also extending top and bottom arms say 12mm each

Cheers Paul

[davidsonsm]

Paul,

I don't t think there is any disadvantage to using the same approach on the front height sensors as the rears, I just found there was very little meat to play with ie the arms are short and it therefore means there's little to attach to.

Sean.

[davidsonsm]

I've just had the +2" braided brake lines installed and they do make a difference. I got mine from Devon 4x4. But they were for a GEMS. Good luck.

[Hammer H]

Apparently Bearmach make them for the later p38 2000 year but very difficult to arrange a supplier. If fact I find that if I ask for parts that are not available on websites then the sellers are not to interested in getting involved, guess its a worth their time thing.

I will probably have to arrange custom made or reposition the brackets.

[Keithy P38]

Repositioning the brackets will kill 2 birds with the same stone. I nearly ripped an ABS line out yesterday. I have not extended my ABS lines or dropped the bracket. Instead I have uncoupled the sensor from the secondary hold on the diff for added length.

EDIT: rear diff only - the front ABS lines are long enough in my opinion.

Cheers
Keithy

[Hammer H]

Thanks davidson, checked out devon 4x4 and they also sell them for my model so made the purchase, will look at also lowering the bracket, thanks Keithy.

[PaulP38a]

I still have a bunch of brake line extensions left over from the Hard Range 2" lift kit, which I discontinued about a year ago.
PM me for a very reasonable deal, within Australia only.
Alternately, you could use the attached photo to draw your own "inspiration" :)
Cheers, Paul.

[Keithy P38]

Here's another little video I made up from the weekend just gone!

My P38 Range Rover offroad at Dalbeg - YouTube (http://youtu.be/L0T22iJuvlg)

Cheers
Keithy

[Keithy P38]

So it's been a while - I guess the festive season has occupied a lot of our time lately!

How are the up and coming lifts getting along? I know Paul is getting close (Hammer H).

Can't wait to see how it all goes!

I've ordered an XJ Cherokee bump stop (just a single one) to see how it fits and if it can be modified to fit. I'm also going to tinker with a set of front height sensors over the coming weeks to see if I can get away without bump stop extensions.

Cheers
Keithy

[Hammer H]

Hi Keithy,

Ive opted for 4mm thick 50mm hi rhs for the extended bump stops.

I was thinking to use hard rubber and found some hard 55mm thick but the weight of the car crushed it down too far and it was no more anywhere near 50mm.

Ive looked at the standard bump stops when vehicle lowered all the way down and they crush down to almost nothing.

With a flexible material it could be difficult know just how far 50mm ext might compress under extreme conditions and could cause a failure.

[davidsonsm]

Planning on fitting my assembled kit this Tuesday. Assuming the little one is in day care. Otherwise, he'd want to help.

Finally got back to an auto eas that I can rely on. That was necessary in my opinion before playing around with the suspension some more. Hoping the 2nd hand modded rear sensors don't screw that up.

Will obviously let you know how it goes. Concerns are air spring feet pushing too close to the top of the air spring in compression. And my +20mm bump stops needing further mods.

[Hammer H]

Hi Sean

Ive just checked mine with vehicle on the bump stops by depressurizing the system and removing the air lines to the rear so it cant go any further. With 50 mm rhs bump stop extensions in place, and the rear sensors extended plus 22mm on the upper arm and plus 23 on the lower arm the elbow of the sensor arm was 10mm away from the left rear rhs bump stop ext and a few mm closer on the right hand rear. Close but I think that will be ok.

The bump stops on the rear come down right on the front of the rear plates, in fact slightly over the edge on mine so the extended stop plates cannot be shifted back further away from the sensor arms.

My plates are 100mmx100mm.

The fronts are 75mmx75mm (50mm hi) and sit perfectly in the middle

Those original bump stops crunch down to 10mm thick when lowered.

Cheers Paul

[PaulP38a]

My 20c worth on this, based on playing around with +50mm suspension lift kits for quite a while, using +50mm shocks at the front, and equivalent of moving old front shocks to rear:
- front bump stops @ 65mm
- rear bump stops @ 90mm

If reusing old bump stops, extend the plate at the diff to accommodate the bump stops using something with a little bit of give like high density rubber.
A customer or mine in the US found that ice hockey pucks (1" thick, 3" dia) were very useful. Another used marine/boat rubber to achieve the required support and resistance.

[davidsonsm]

Can someone remind me of the overall height of the oem bump stop.
Of course, one of the original aims with this lift (correct me if I'm wrong) was to achieve greater articulation. If we all end up extending bump stops too much, we won't have achieved the aim. But of course there are practical geometric limitations. Certainly don't want to bottom out on shockers or damage the bags on full compression.

I've already extended my bump stops by 20mm front and rear. I'll see if they need further modding once the kit is fitted - hoping it'll be today.

[DANMAL]

- front bump stops @ 65mm
- rear bump stops @ 90mm
Paul is that measurement the full length of the bump stops when they're out of the car, or is measurement taken from chassis

[Keithy P38]

If anyone is keen to remodel the rear airbag tophat, ill buy a pair!

Have had to extend the rear bump stops primarily due to the height sensor tapping the chassis (the elbow of the sensor arms is the point of contact with the chassis). Secondary reason was due to the piston of the rear springs getting very personal with the tophat.

My bump stop pad is 55mm taller in the rear.

The options (and thus the reason I'm not completely finished my lift) are:

- Bend rear sensor top arm down a few degrees and extend it, reverting the lower sensor arm to standard. Then limit up-travel with the bump stops once the piston meets the tophat.

Or

- As above, except, manufacture a tophat for the rear springs that allows the piston to travel further up and run with no bump stop extension.

As for the front end, the height sensors hit the low limit before the spring has fully compressed (piston could theoretically travel up another 2 to 3"). My front bump stop pad is raised by 35 - 40mm from memory.

The way I see it, the front end has these options:

- Front height sensor upper arm bend a few degrees and extend by 25mm (estimate), revert the lower sensor arm to standard. If the length and angle of bend are right, the arc of travel will prevent the sensor from reaching its low limit on up travel and will actually begin to arc down again briefly at max spring compression.

Or

- Leave front bump stop pads as-is and put up with EAS faults if the car drops below access height. This happened to me twice prior to raising the bump stop pad. It was easily reset and the car lifted itself up no worries, but it is a pain.

This part of the lift (in my case) is very much R&D now that I've got a baseline and working suspension setup that I can safely drive around on the street.

Any engineers out there who wish to aid with height sensor mods, feel free to shout out! It's all about getting that arc of travel right. Prerequisites are:

- Top height sensor arm to be bent down near the sensor by (x) degrees and lengthened by (x)mm to allow the same bit count at current heights, but modify the arc of travel to a lower point at the join between the two arms.

Hope it explains the train of thought!

Cheers
Keithy

[davidsonsm]

Keith, I'll have a proper read of your post in due course. But can I ask - do these problems all stem from the 65mm high spacers? Mine are 48mm and my initial findings after fitting everything today seem positive. I've still to calibrate the eas, but compression to the bump stops front and rear seems fine. My sensors have been extended +25mm on each of the upper and lower arms. This works. For the front I've raised the attachment point to the radius arm by 25mm. Left the sensors alone.

Will need to double check it all. It was a rushed job today but it all seemed to go fine. Used the lynch pins to attach the rear spacers to the axle pads and these seem fine. Might bolt or weld as well.

Thanks to you for all the help and input. .

[Keithy P38]

Coming along nicely there!

Nah, nothing to do with the spacers!

My fronts are 60mm, the rears are 50mm. It's the height sensors limiting upwards travel on mine. If I could get the front sensors to stop reading below 0 at full compression I'd be able to leave the bump stop pads as factory.

Once the rear height sensors are clear of the chassis ill be able to reduce the bump stop pad extensions.

Cheers
Keithy

[davidsonsm]

Keith, is it too late to do the +25mm extension on both the upper and lower arms of your rear sensors?

[Keithy P38]

Definitely not too late! I can shorten the rear lower arms quite easily! The upper arms are untouched.

[davidsonsm]

Definitely not too late! I can shorten the rear lower arms quite easily! The upper arms are untouched.

I'll let you know how I go calibrating my eas - it could be the tricky part from what you described above. Hoping the mods I've made still keep the settings in the prescribed and limiting ranges for each height.

[davidsonsm]

Quick question. With the tf144 and tf145 sockets by terrafirma, do you throw the inner bush cups away? Given there are already cups fitted to the axle pad. There was not enough thread left to fit the nylock nut with the cups in place. Unless I need a special tool?

[davidsonsm]

That was meant to say shockers not sockets.

[Keithy P38]

I used one set of cups out of the two. They were the "flatter" ones. I used them on the outer sides of the bush.

[davidsonsm]

Keith. Same here then. Glad to hear.

[davidsonsm]

Well the Terrafirma's feel a lot more original to the Koni's I've just taken off. Purer. More Range Rover. Softer. Perhaps plusher. Not sure if I prefer them though. Feels like a backward step in terms of ride quality on the road.

Spent quite a bit of the afternoon pumping the air springs up and down so the bump stops sit on various height spacer blocks I've cut up from left over wood. And climbing underneath to add more when the eas brain doesn't allow the setting, because it's not in range. Recorded the eas heights and wrote then in to the eas ecu. Thought I'd just sit back then and watch the car dance through its 4 prescribed heights. But oh no. It's little lopsided. Think the front sensors (original) might be giving me spurious readings. There's about a ten point difference in the 0-255 scale numbers at any particular height. That seems excessive to me.

Will try again soon.

Anybody had any prop shaft problems with the lift? 50mm extra lift over 1m is 3 degs or so. How many degrees do the props (UJ's) take before you shorten their life drastically?

[Keithy P38]

Sounds like a calibration is in order! My opinion on the Terrafirma shocks is that they are a better all-round shock. I think they are a touch firm on the blacktop, but corrugations and rough roads - they really shine! They work really well when given a hard time!

10 points is quite the difference between sensors! Good luck mate.

[mtb_gary]

?.....Anybody had any prop shaft problems with the lift? 50mm extra lift over 1m is 3 degs or so. How many degrees do the props (UJ's) take before you shorten their life drastically?

Around 50,000k's on from the lift being fitted and no problems with the prop shafts to date.

Gary

[Keithy P38]

Do you drive around in 'standard' height or 'low' most of the time Gary?

[davidsonsm]

Any other recommendations after fitting a lift kit with regards to tracking and caster. I'll get the tracking checked regardless, as it is pulling slightly.

[mtb_gary]

Do you drive around in 'standard' height or 'low' most of the time Gary?
On the bitumen low all the time, including for towing. When off road up to standard height. To date I have not had the need for extended height because I have not done any deep creek crossings. In respect to wheel alignment, I took mine in for an alignment after doing the ball joints, drag link and steering. The report back was all within specification. The additional item I have not gotten around to is the front sway bar connectors. Due to the lift the connectors are now 2" too short. One day I must get around to getting some the correct length ;).

Gary

[Keithy P38]

Thanks mate. Same here.

[RoverHse]

In my humble opinion there would be two ways to gain the additional height (50mm). Option 1 would be to fit gen 3 bags and extend the sensors to use the additional length the bags offer. The second option would be spacers under standard bags. Both options would utilise the longer shock and require the brake line, etc adjustments.

Would I be correct in assuming that gen 3 bags with spacers would require a 50mm longer shock to take up the spacer dimension, and an additional 50mm (100mm total) additional down travel to make full use of the gen 3 length?

[Pete38]

In my humble opinion there would be two ways to gain the additional height (50mm). Option 1 would be to fit gen 3 bags and extend the sensors to use the additional length the bags offer. The second option would be spacers under standard bags. Both options would utilise the longer shock and require the brake line, etc adjustments.

Would I be correct in assuming that gen 3 bags with spacers would require a 50mm longer shock to take up the spacer dimension, and an additional 50mm (100mm total) additional down travel to make full use of the gen 3 length?

Some of the reason for the angled spacers is also to correct the angle the piston is to the bladder on the rear at full articulation when the +2 inch shocks are in place (equates to about 3 inches more at the wheel). This helps stop over extending the front facing part of the bladder on the rear bags (even on stock shocks the angle gets quite large).

I have had my bits all ready (except to actually extend the sensor arms) but it got pushed back over a locker, front bar, and dual battery setup.... But its coming trust me.

My spacers are only 25mm tall. If the bump stops aren't needed to be lengthened then the articulation is the same as if no spacers are installed with extended shocks. Just the bags won't extend quite as much at full droop ( alot less on the front face of the bags), but the bags will fold more when on the bump stops... 50mm spacers will mean even less extension again but more fold when on the bump stops. Less risky of over extending the bags.

To get the same spring rates as when no spacers, the ride height will increase by the amount of spacer. If you change the EAS to ride at the same ground clearance as stock then the ride will be firmer as standard will move into the highway height spring rates on the bags.

With no bump stop length changes, the +2 terrafirmas are the limit of extended shocks otherwise the shock body gets too big on anything longer, and you would need to extend the bump stops to stop the shock bottoming out.

Hope this helps. You might need to get under and look/think about the spacers a little to understand what I've said though. Not so keen to sketch anything up to illustrate.

[davidsonsm]

What Peter said, plus my own musings.

Option 1 poses problems with extended shocks as you'd be in real danger of over extending the bags.

Same with option 2: spacers plus oem bags and the extended shocks - over extending the bags, but perhaps less of a risk than option 1.

[Pete38]

Good point there.

I didn't read the standard bags part... Just assumed he was tossing up between using spacers or not with the gen 3 and extended shocks.

Yep, I second that spacers plus the +2 terrafirma would be risky with standard bags particularly on the rear where the +2 inch shock makes 3 inches extra extension. So the standard bag would extend an extra inch over normal even with 50mm spacers... So even more risk added to using air bags off road. I'm paranoid enough even though I have all the bits and pieces to limp home.

Peter.

[Keithy P38]

Longer shocks and gen III's will pop bags! I popped Gen III's with standard shocks, so going any longer would be even riskier! Plus the added spring rate at higher ride height without spacers would rattle your teeth!

The reasons for the lift IMO is:
- Added ground clearance with comfortable (and bag-friendly) spring rate

- Wheel travel maximisation (currently under review at my end)

- Ability to fit larger diameter tyres in the future.

Cheers
Keithy

[davidsonsm]

Well I sure am glad I fitted turnbuckles to the lower arms of the rear sensors I fitted with my lift kit. As a recap, I extended the upper arms from 150mm long to 175mm with some 6mm id carbon fibre tent pole tubing. And I cut the lower arms, threaded and extended them with a turnbuckle, so they went from 125mm long to 150mm long Delivering a 50mm overall (when stretched straight) increase in length. Obviously, the geometry isn't as simple as that.

In trying to calibrate the settings within the EAS brain, it is the rear right height reading of 155 (at extended height setting) that throws the system in to a fault condition. This setting equates to a height of around 570mm from the centre of the wheel to the underside of the wheel arch. Which is what I'm aiming for, given the original measurement was 520mm and I've added 48mm of lift.

The way I see it now, I need to extend the lower arms suffiently using the turnbuckle, to bring the reading under 150 at the 570mm height. And hope the readings at the other heights are all within range - they should be as I'm towards the top end of the range at each height. And also hope there are no fouling/clash issues with the axle and/or chassis.

The front height sensors were simply swapped left to right and vice versa. And their attachment point on the arm was raised by 25mm using a bracket. This seems to be working as at each height (OEM + 50mm) the readings are in same ballpark (as they were).

All good fun hey. Looking forward to establishing the new "norm". Want to get Nora back on an even keel for a while. She's been through a lot recently and she deserves a break.

[Keithy P38]

Lucky hey! At least you made it adjustable. It'd be a pain to have to remove the sensors to fix it up!

That's the reason my extension is the lower arm only - doing both arms equally would not achieve the 2" as desired due to geometry! Hopefully you don't need to extend it too much.

Be sure to check for sensor to chassis clearance at full compression too.

Cheers
Keithy

[benji]

I'm just coming up to that point now, so thanks for that!
I'd like to think I can get away with no spaces to angle the rear bags, especially given as what keithy did to his by inverting it..., but it probably won't be so for peace of mind.

Just trying to sort out sensor geometry atm as I don't want to extend the bumpstops.

[Keithy P38]

Are you lifting benji, or just modding sensors?

The rears will definitely need to be angled if you lift, purely due to the angle of the diff as it gets further from the chassis. My rear spacers arethe exact same as they were when I inverted the bag, just welded to the diff now!

I wish I had more time to tinker with the rear sensors so I could offer a 100% option for others to use that would make every mm count!

EDIT: My front sensors (lower arms) are 23mm longer and the rear sensors (lower arms) are 48mm longer. The vehicle sits roughly 55mm higher than before. It has a very slight bum-up in standard height (not enough to make it look poxy, just a touch up - maybe 15mm higher than the front).

Good luck with yours mate!

Cheers
Keithy

[DANMAL]

Sounds like the trucks are coming along well. The biggest problem I have with mine is both diffs shifting over, front diff shifts towards drivers side the highers you go abd rear towards passenger side.. Therefore it tends to wonder around a bit.. panhard rods would fix that except they dont make them for p38... I saw a set on the net (ill find the link) except they dont run bushes in them, now I can imagine that would send a whole lot of vibrations through the chassis. .
Was thinking of threading the existing rods..

[davidsonsm]

I'm just coming up to that point now, so thanks for that!
I'd like to think I can get away with no spaces to angle the rear bags, especially given as what keithy did to his by inverting it..., but it probably won't be so for peace of mind.

Just trying to sort out sensor geometry atm as I don't want to extend the bumpstops.

How are you achieving the lift without spacers? If you're simply running higher pressures at each set point by eas recalibration, you're putting the bags under more stress and altering their spring rate. Thereby increasing the chances of popping a bag.

Have I interpreted your intent correctly? Of so, you don't need longer height sensors unless you use longer shocks - which is when you definately need the spacers.

[Keithy P38]

I hear ya danmal! It's noticeable in "high" but not in "standard" on mine. Seemed to track well enough to me. I figure, for the amount of time I spend up high, it's not a necessity just yet.

[davidsonsm]

Similar to Gary, I'd plan on being in highway height for most of my driving. Standard height for most of any off road work and extended for water crossings and really narly stuff.

Guess that's the next bridge to cross (panhards) if it reveals itself as a problem.

[DANMAL]

Yeah mine is always locked in highway n only go on standard when off road, rarely go to extended.. even on highway its still noticeable. . But I do have 285 75 16 km2 so it has to sit slightly higher n if I go lower the front bumpstops will bottom out when going on speed humps

[Keithy P38]

How do you find the 285 km2's? Much scrubbing? I was tempted to go 255/85, could be persuaded to 285/75 if they are alright.

[davidsonsm]

Most of the p38's I've seen with lifts all tend to run 285/75/16's. And report no real concerns in the upper 3 heights. Not so good in access height.

[DANMAL]

Scrubs bad in highway but only the wheels that are closer to the chassis due to diff being off center (front passenger side) standard height is not too bad only drivers rear scrapes chasis under full flex.. that's y I need panhards.. The tyres are awesome though I had 265 75 km2 before them

[mtb_gary]

My 265/75/16 touch the chassis (only just) at full articulatin on the right hand rear.

Gary

[DANMAL]

My 265/75/16 touch the chassis (only just) at full articulatin on the right hand rear.

Gary

Is yours lifted?

[benji]

I'm in two minds wether I want a lift, ours is a daily driver, and we do a lot of hwy km.

I don't think an inch would make any difference on road, and would be handy offroad though.

If I go a lift it'll be through spacers, though I'll lift the offroad height by about an inch through the computer, and then 265/75 would give me another inch or so. 3 inches above standard in the high setting would give a reasonable amount of clearance.

Choices choices mmm.

[mtb_gary]

Is yours lifted?

DANMAL, yes, I have the 2" HRA lift.

Gary

[DANMAL]

DANMAL, yes, I have the 2" HRA lift.

Gary

Thats why its rubbing, because your diff is off center. . I drove the front left wheel up a bank to inspect what's going on under there, that rear left wheel is actually limiting the travel by acting like a bumpstop on the chasis.. The other side is perfect, when the diff is back to center, both wheels should clear with 285 75

[mtb_gary]

Mine only rubs on the driver's side? Passenger side is clear.

Gary

[DANMAL]

Mine only rubs on the driver's side? Passenger side is clear.

Gary

Yeah thats the one I meant.. isnt that right hand rear or did I mix them up...
Sam

[davidsonsm]

Has anybody with a lift experiencing the axle shift tried these:

Range Rover P38 1995-2002 Suspension Lift Kits (http://store.toddcosuspensions.com/rarop3819sul.html)

The price looks OK - wonder what the shipping would be.

[Keithy P38]

Says that it's adjustable, I think they'd be a winner!

[DANMAL]

That's the one I was talking about except they dont have bushes. Wouldnt that send alot of vibrations through the chassis?

[mtb_gary]

Yeah thats the one I meant.. isnt that right hand rear or did I mix them up...
Sam
Sam

That was me not reading your post properly :angel:

Gary

[DANMAL]

Sam

That was me not reading your post properly :angel:

Gary

Haha no prob

[davidsonsm]

That's the one I was talking about except they dont have bushes. Wouldnt that send alot of vibrations through the chassis?

Not sure. I was hoping somebody would have already tried them. Ill ask for the suppliers opinion.

Hence why I guess you're suggesting the modification to the originals.

[mtb_gary]

Just thinking out loud ...... with reference to the Panhard rod and in particular it's mounting point to the chassis. Would a bracket that lowered (extended) the mounting point on the chassis 2" serve the same purpose as changing Panhard rod length? That way the original Panhard rod angles could be maintained.

Gary

[davidsonsm]

Gary, sounds like a splendid idea. Something worthy of weighing up. That's for sure.

[DANMAL]

Just thinking out loud ...... with reference to the Panhard rod and in particular it's mounting point to the chassis. Would a bracket that lowered (extended) the mounting point on the chassis 2" serve the same purpose as changing Panhard rod length? That way the original Panhard rod angles could be maintained.

Gary

That was suggested to me by les Richmond automotive. . Dont think its that simple though, need to factor in its motion of travel etc.. doable though

[davidsonsm]

Had a look see today (at panhard brackets) whilst recalibrating my eas after extending the lower Arms on the rear height sensors using the turnbuckle. My eas now works with the lift kit without throwing a fault.

I reckon I'm standard height it crabs by 20mm ie 10mm over from centre line front and rear.

Reckon extending the panhard rod would be an easier option than lowering the brackets.

[davidsonsm]

These would do the job wouldn't they:

http://m.ebay.com.au/itm?itemId=131084621586

I'm assuming the rods are 1" dia. I'd need to check.

[mtb_gary]

Agreed, I think I'd look for a 2nd hand panhard rod to cut and weld though! Just to be safe ;).

Gary

[DANMAL]

These would do the job wouldn't they:

http://m.ebay.com.au/itm?itemId=131084621586

I'm assuming the rods are 1" dia. I'd need to check.

They look to be 25mm, havent measured them though.. are our rods solid though? I would of thought they may of been hollow tubing, I just read the fitting instructions and if they are 1inch and solid then this will be Perfect! as the other ones that you posted previously can only be adjusted off the car by turning the end im guessing.
Sam

[DANMAL]

Agreed, I think I'd look for a 2nd hand panhard rod to cut and weld though! Just to be safe ;).

Gary

you twisted my arm gary haha, I was going to just do it to my original ones.. dont want the rangie to turn out like "Mater" (the tow truck) from the movie Cars, if something goes wrong..
Sam

[davidsonsm]

Why would they need to be solid? As long as the o.d. is correct, they'll weld up fine.

That was my thinking though. Get a spare pair. I've retained unmolested height sensors and shocks so the lift kit can be removed if required/desired.

[davidsonsm]

Here's the reply from the ebay vendor selling the panhard rod turnbuckles:

hi sean,

Yes please check your rod diameter to confirm the size. Its either 1" (25.4) or 1-1/8" (28.6). We only have these to suit 1" rods at the moment.

Yep, you're right, it doesn't matter if your rod is solid or hollow, it will work anyway.

Etc etc.

They will do combined postage. I can get a pair of panhard rods for $60 each. Would have to swap over the bushes, or get some spares -0 but they're not expensive.

Looks like a go'er - providing the diameter checks out fine.

[mtb_gary]

This is sounding very promising! I didn't get a chance this morning to climb under the car with the vernier calliper. Let's hope Land Rover stuck to a standard size for this one :D:angel:

Gary

[davidsonsm]

And of course for the next question. The anti roll bar drop links. Is it worthwhile extending them? The difference being that the actual bar is a slightly steeper angle at each height - thereby reducing its flex.

I guess disconnects (as sold once upon a time I understand) would be the ideal.

[mtb_gary]

Ahhh, the joys of modifying cars ;)

Gary

[mtb_gary]

I have done a quick ring around, $22 each for the panhard rods front and rear. It was all looking good until I measured the diameter. 30mm :mad:. I thought we were on a winner then :(.

Gary

[davidsonsm]

I'll see if the guy selling the turnbuckles can get or produce them at 30mm. Is it bang on 30mm.

[davidsonsm]

At 30mm dia they'd have to be hollow. Therefore getting them threaded with an appropriately sized turnbuckle seems like the way to go. Fine thread with locking nuts.

Who will be the first to crack one open. :confused:

[davidsonsm]

I measure the panhard rods at 31.4mm or 31.5mm o.d. Assume thats 1.25" equivalent. Would have to be hollow. Therefore it would probably be better to use a male turnbuckle (is that what they're called) and thread the inside of the tube.

[DANMAL]

Damn!! Threading the standard rod was the original idea, just wondering if it would weaken it though. Does anybody know what the id is on our standard rods? Could maybe slot it inside instead of over the top

[davidsonsm]

Is this panhard rod discussion worthy of its own post? Keithy - hope you don't mind us hijacking the P38 EAS lift post - but this topic is related.

Once the i.d. of the panhard rod tube is determined, my plan would be to get hold of 2x RH thread weldable bung inserts, plus 2x LH threaded ones, like these:

WTF: Bung, Threaded Insert, Weldable Female - Midwest Control Products Corp. (http://www.midwestcontrol.com/series.php?id=123)

And couple them with a jack screw (available up to 3/4" thread) and jam nuts - you'd have yourself a very strong set up.

Reckon you'd have to cut about 100mm out of the panhard rod tube, to end up back at the original eye to eye length with the jackscrew in the minimum length position. But this cutting length would need to be determined once the i.d. is known and therefore, once you can select the o.d. of the bung insert section.

[mtb_gary]

Stage 1 completed. I have just picked up a set of 2nd hand panhard rods. Judging by their weight they definitely hollow. The bushes are still in place so at least that part of the project is a bit easier. I'm not going to get a chance tonight to do the first cut....but maybe tomorrow night? :o

Gary

[Keithy P38]

It's fine with me guys! At the end of the day it's still related to the lift! Panhard on!

[mtb_gary]

Step 2 completed. Cut and measure.....I must admit not not the results I was expecting.:eek:
71296
First the back, got the hack saw out and cut through: OD 30.3 mm ID 24.6 mm (this does vary depending on where the measurement is taken as the wall thickness is uneven).

Next the front: OD 30.3 mm ID 20.3 mm, I was starting to think the hack saw blade was going blunt because it was taking a lot more effort to cut through until the cut was complete. Why the difference? The only rational thing I can think of is that the front is more prone to impacts compared with the rear, hence the heavier tubing. Or was it 2 different Land Rover engineers designing and specifying different grades of tubing. I guess we'll never know for sure.
71297
My next step is going to be taking them to an engineering friend of mine and asking for some expert advice on the potential of threading the front panhard and maybe one of the weldable bungs in the rear as davidsonm suggested.

Any additional thoughts greatly appreciated....

====____
//__l_l_,\____\,__
l_---\_l__l---[]==[]
_(o)_)__(o)_)--_)__


Gary

[davidsonsm]

Nice hacksawing. If the front is longer, it would have to be thicker for the same tortional rigidity. Is it. Can't remember.

Sound reasonable? But once you think about a loaded boot plus towing, there would be more lateral forces at the rear. The rears strsightness must help.

I'm sure there are more learned people lurking about on this forum that could explain.

[davidsonsm]

Sounds like an inch and an eighth in old money. The ebay seller referenced a few posts back sells a kit to suit 1.125" od panhard rods. That's one solution I guess.

[davidsonsm]

Just checked the weldable bung o.d. options. The 20.3mm front rod i.d. is 0.8" bang on. There's a bung with an o.d. of 0.795" or one at 0.817". Is 17 thou too much of an interference fit (shrink fit)? I'll check. Plus welding of course.

Or would the safer option be to have the slack?

Just musing.

[mtb_gary]

The front pan hard rod is shorter than the rear by around 250 mm. It does however have small bends on each end compared with the rear that is straight.

Gary

[davidsonsm]

The front pan hard rod is shorter than the rear by around 250 mm. It does however have small bends on each end compared with the rear that is straight.

Gary

Well that blows my theory. Wonder why then, the front is so much thicker. Cornering forces created by the turning front wheels?

[benji]

17 thou = .4318mm

Of which .48mm is listed as a medium drive interference fit for pipes 18-30mm in the engineers Black book.

So, I suppose it should fit - just.

[davidsonsm]

[Thanks for that. The 0.817" o.d. bung is only available with a 5/8" thread. I'm going to pursue a 3/4" jack screw thread - which makes things a little more difficult.

I'd have to drill out the front panhard rod using a 59/64" (0.922" or 23.4mm) drill bit to accept the smallest size weldable bung that has a 3/4" thread.

I'm not sure I'd be able to drill that diameter at home. It'd need a lathe I suppose. But how would you mount it? With a drill bit in the chuck?

The option of welding a socket over the o.d. of the panhard rod then becomes the favoured option. Problem is I can't find anything to suit, off the shelf. The 30.3mm o.d. is a funny size. I can't identify it from any tubing schedules. Hence why I've enquired with the ebay seller linked above - they appear to have a machine shop that makes the required sockets, albeit at a different diameter to the one required.


QUOTE=benji;2066824]17 thou = .4318mm

Of which .48mm is listed as a medium drive interference fit for pipes 18-30mm in the engineers Black book.

So, I suppose it should fit - just.[/QUOTE]

[benji]

Would it be simpler to turn the bung down?
I'd fit in a lathe easier, and it'd retain the strength of the rod.

[davidsonsm]

Dont think you can. You'd end up cutting too much meat off the bung. At 19mm thread, you'd have to get the od of the bung down to 20.3mm.

With a 5/8 thread you get away with it. In fact there are bungs available to suit that need no turning. But is 5/8" enough for the jack screw.

I've had a reply from the ebay seller - ill post it asap. They're recommending a press fit (plus welding) over rod approach, allowing the screw to run inside the panhard rod.

[davidsonsm]

Reply from the ebay seller, who's selling the panhard rod jack screw kits (see link in piror post):

Dear davidsonsm,

hi sean
ah, I wish it were as easy as you describe. maybe I should appoint you as project manager for these, you'll probably do a much better job than I do - haha.
but of interest, is that we use UK made nuts.

well we probably should make them for the P38+ and the good news is that being hollow tube, of the right internal dimensions, we can make them so that the screw retracts into the rod. a design that we use on most other models, only the rovers and one other local car have solid rods.

we actually make the press fit to a very close dimension, so I would need to acquire a sample so we can get them to press fit onto the od perfectly.

yes we can make them. however, right at the moment we have production tied-up making engine mounts. it will probably be about 4 weeks before I could look at making the parts.
are you able to wait that long?

cheers
robert

[mtb_gary]

My thinking for the front is to thread the panhard rod. Rear, with bungs welded in. Given most of the problem appears to be the rear rubbing on the chassis rail I feel priority should be put to the rear bar. All been well I should catch up my engineering mate tomorrow. I'll take the bars with me for his opinion.

Gary

[davidsonsm]

To thread the id of the front rod would involve shrink fitting a sleeve I'd imagine. Because at 20.3mm plus threading, what jack screw could you use?

Very interested to hear a professionals opinion. All good stuff. I'm reluctant to take any meat off the 5mm wall thickness, unless it can be reinforced with an insert.

[benji]

A7/8 UNF if one can be found.

[Keithy P38]

I'm gonna butt in and put a bump stop upgrade up!

Having had a complete afternoon free yesterday, I took it upon myself to drive around town chasing bump stops that don't need modification to fit. Old mate at repco was kind enough to let me raid his shelving, so I went through each and every one they stock.

The closest thing that 'might' fit is off a ford laser, but it isn't much taller than ours, and is about half the diameter in size.

I then drove to all the suspension shops and 4wd stores (ARB, etc). No joy.

Nobody stocks anything that'll do the job (and if you own a Jeep you'll have to wait 3 weeks for even Jeep themselves to order one from the US at $45 per bump stop).

The cheapest single stop I can get on ebay is around $30, and when SWMBO gets home from work ill be ordering one. I believe the jeep is the closest thing we will get to fit.

Cheers
Keithy

[davidsonsm]

I'm gonna butt in and put a bump stop upgrade up!

Having had a complete afternoon free yesterday, I took it upon myself to drive around town chasing bump stops that don't need modification to fit. Old mate at repco was kind enough to let me raid his shelving, so I went through each and every one they stock.

The closest thing that 'might' fit is off a ford laser, but it isn't much taller than ours, and is about half the diameter in size.

I then drove to all the suspension shops and 4wd stores (ARB, etc). No joy.

Nobody stocks anything that'll do the job (and if you own a Jeep you'll have to wait 3 weeks for even Jeep themselves to order one from the US at $45 per bump stop).

The cheapest single stop I can get on ebay is around $30, and when SWMBO gets home from work ill be ordering one. I believe the jeep is the closest thing we will get to fit.

Cheers
Keithy

What I did as a suggestion, is cut off the originals at about 1" height to retain the fixing method. I used a circular recess in a piece of 2x4 wood at the same dia as the bump stop, to get them level. I then glued (gorilla glue) some cheap poly bump stops to the oem one's. I roughed up the poly face first.

The poly stops were stepped so I could cut them at my chosen height. Which is 75mm for me, front and back. Seems to work with 32" tyres. And stops the height sensors fouling.

[davidsonsm]

A7/8 UNF if one can be found.

I've been scouring tinternet. Not seen any 7/8 jack screws. If they're available, it sounds like the ideal for the front panhard. Anybody know where they can be sourced?

[mtb_gary]

I caught up with my mate and his recommendation was don"t do it yourself! He has seen first hand a Patrol snap an adjustable panhard rod whils driving around the dunes. The stresses on these bars is considerable. But, he has put me in contact with a fabricator who I have since spoken with over the phone and will catch up with on Monday and take the bars over.

Home (http://www.xlr8fabrications.com/)

Mike at xlr8 fabrications was interested to know more about the p38 as he has not had the opportunity to work on/with them. Depending on the price possibly get some additional bar work done. One of their specialities is the rear bar carrier. I'll find out more on Monday.

Gary

[DANMAL]

I feel a lot safer that way, I'd definitely be ordering off him too if he will make them.. thanks Garry

Sam

[davidsonsm]

By rights, this mod should have an engineers sign off I gather. Still keen to pursue a solution.

I'll follow up with the fab shop in melbourne (the ebay seller with the diy kit) to see how that pans out. Getting the welding done by somebody certified would bring peace of mind.

[DANMAL]

Keith, martin (fantom p38) was so kind as to take one of his bump stops to a rubber/poly joint and get it coppied..I could do the same if you need a template

[Keithy P38]

That'd be the go! Could they produce a finished version (ie a complete, but extended bump stop)?

I wonder if there is a place up here that'd do it. Might google tomorrow.

Cheers
Keithy

[benji]

The shocks still have plenty of compression left, as do the bags (they roll over the spacer as they compress). "Quote by Kiethy"

I know it's from a few pages ago - though currently it's where I'm at. So on you're setup the bag rolls over the 5 inch flare at the bottom of the piston? It seems to cope with it okay?

[Keithy P38]

Yes it does, like its not even there! They roll half-way down the spacers on mine. I have filed the edge of the spacers to eliminate pinch-points.

[benji]

Thanks heaps.

I'm not taking anything away from the work done here. But I've just found this.
http://www.jcbritish4x4.com/p38-eas-modification-details/

[mtb_gary]

Thanks heaps.

I'm not taking anything away from the work done here. But I've just found this.
P38 EAS modification details (http://www.jcbritish4x4.com/p38-eas-modification-details/)

I wonder how much rubbing they get on the rear drivers side? No mention of panhard rods.

Gary

[Keithy P38]

Cheers for posting that up! It's all relevant to lifting a P38 so it's good info! I like to think of this thread as a collective wisdom paving the way for future DIY lifters. We are not selling our kits, so no harm done whatsoever!

Makes me want to put a flex pic up right now... I rekon I've got more ;-)

Cheers
Keithy

[Keithy P38]

Come to think of it, we really have a mixed bag in terms of lifts here... Heights are different, spacers (albeit similar) are different, height sensor mods are different... It's good to get a few takes on it to see what others are comfortable running, and it gives options to others in terms of how they do theirs!

Cheers
Keithy

[davidsonsm]

Thanks heaps.

I'm not taking anything away from the work done here. But I've just found this.
http://www.jcbritish4x4.com/p38-eas-modification-details/

Wouldn't they be risking over extending the arrnotts without spacers? They sure are stretching the bags.

[davidsonsm]

As a continium to the panhard thread that I'm still pursuing, I took a quick look at the radius arms today - with respect to installing a spacer ala lucky8. To get the front axle 10 to 12mm further forward.

I didn't have the time to get one of the arms off, but its straightforward enough I think once the sway bar is out of the way. Certainly it would if I had a hoist! Has anybody done this mod? With the bull bar, I have room aplenty in front of the wheel, but not at the rear. Hence why I looked.

Anybody know the diameter of the bar that the spacer would slide over?

[davidsonsm]

These look like a possibility for the panhard adjustment mod.

You'd have to drill and ream out all four ends of the cut front and rear rods, to accept a 1" push fit insert using two of these:

http://www.eadoffroad.com/fabrication/fabrication-tubing/synergy-3620-07-14-10-3620-07-18-10-3620-10-11-3620-12-13-3620-12-14-double-adjuster-tube-adapter

Apparently these are more stable than a jack screw with jam nuts.

And push fit a 7/8-14 male LH threaded weldable bung in the other side. Like these:

http://www.eadoffroad.com/fabrication/fabrication-tubing/synergy-3650-06-3650-07-3650-10-3650-12-billet-4140-ht-threaded-weld-studs

Then weld it all up.

Now. Anybody got a lathe or magnetic drill I could use in the melbourne area.

[Keithy P38]

A bit of grease on the drill bit will catch swarf.

[benji]

Thats certainly the way to go with the panhard rod; there's not going to be a stronger setup.

Just food for thought, but that guy has done a few other things also. I'm not sure that I like some of his ways, but they obviously work.
I was thinking the same thing myself re stretching the bags to far. I'll be having a very similar setup in terms of heights and mounts, but the TF145s being shorter it should work out well.

http://www.jcbritish4x4.com/p38-eas-modification-intro/

[benji]

Joining all the collective wisdom; is there anyone running standard bumpstops with the angled seat plate?

Just from my drawings a 1/2 inch angled plate would make the bottom piston and top plate hit when running on the bumpstops.

[DANMAL]

Joining all the collective wisdom; is there anyone running standard bumpstops with the angled seat plate?

Just from my drawings a 1/2 inch angled plate would make the bottom piston and top plate hit when running on the bumpstops.

Im running the standard rear bumps with an angled spacer under the gen3 which extends under the bump stop. .
Sam

[DANMAL]

My upward travel is limited because the right rear 285 75 touches the chassis before it bottoms out on the bumpstop

[Keithy P38]

Definitely a panhard mod candidate!

[Pete38]

Hey Keithy. When you get a chance could you measure the distance from the base of the lower piston to the base of the top part (well top when it's mounted) when they are likely to touch.

Assuming it can be done, and not too hard, with your retired gen 3 you likely still have. But sweet if it's in the too hard basket.

[davidsonsm]

Hey Keithy. When you get a chance could you measure the distance from the base of the lower piston to the base of the top part (well top when it's mounted) when they are likely to touch.

Assuming it can be done, and not too hard, with your retired gen 3 you likely still have. But sweet if it's in the too hard basket.

That's a good idea. I wouldn't mind seeing a photo of that.

[Keithy P38]

Great timing haha! I'm seconds away from bed and I fly back to work at 5:30 tomorrow morning! Ill race into the garage now and see if I can make my dud Gen III do some dancing!

[benji]

From where the bottom piston sits on the axle to the bit where the top plate sits against the chassis... They will hit at 16.3cm.

When the car is on the bumpstops with no air, the bag sits at 16.5cm at the back and 17 at the front of the rear piston. Hope that makes sense. .. I.e, the rotation of the diff tips the piston a tad forward.

But; if your going to angle the bottom piston any further forward than 11mm you need to add a 5mm extension to your bumpstops. Hopefully that makes sense. .. hopefully a photo brings clarity - cause the maduri sure isn't:D

[Keithy P38]

You beat me to it!

I got 165mm before the piston touches the top in a straight up-n-down compression.

Peter, I took pics of the inside of a Gen III so you get an idea of the structure of the top hat, and bag and piston beside each other at the point they would make contact (which is just below the upper crimp ring). Could you put them up as I'm not near the laptop!

EDIT:

The measurement was taken from the upper lip of the top hat (only a mm or so below where the air line enters the hat).

Cheers
Keithy

[Pete38]

So 16.3mm is the magic number until they hit. For the rear anyway. So they are pretty close with no spacers then? Like real close if those measurements are right. If so, then the bump stops extensions will need to be almost the same as the spacers. Damn I hope that's not true cause I was really hoping to not extend the bump stops with my 25mm at the centre of the spacers.

Edit: Keith's reply as well now. Wow info overdose. 165mm is the number I'll be keeping a close eye on taking into account the spacers are angled

[Keithy P38]

FYI, the piston is 138mm long, and it meets the upper part of the bag at 6mm below the crimp ring. So if you are measuring while the bag is on the car, measure from 6mm below the crimp ring and 138mm later you should have piston and hat kissing (if the piston is vertical). I couldn't make the piston change angles and compress the spring, so can't offer measurements there.

Cheers
Keithy

[Pete38]

Keith's pics attached

Cheers, Peter.

[davidsonsm]

Of course we need to allow a factor of safety to allow the bump stop to bump.

Ill check mine in situ with the +20mm bump stop extension using +30mm spacer (centreline height on angled rear spacer). And report back. Good stuff guys. Appreciated.

[benji]

I see your blue shed toys are the same as mine!

Thanks so much for that!
Yes, I would say that at full bumpstop compression they are just touching. So no spacers... I think I'm going to end up with a 1/2 inch alloy plate bolted onto the bump pad of the chassis - in which I'll loose a tad compression but I don't see any other way.

Yesterday whilst I had no rear springs in, I jacked up one tire to take all the rear weight of the car on one bumpstop to try and simulate a bump, the bumpstop didn't compress any further. I had 22mm from the bottom of the retaining cup to the bump pad on the axle.

[Keithy P38]

Yeah, it keeps the daughter out of my tools! She loves helping work on daddy's car! She is only 18mnths old but can tell the difference between a screwdriver and hammer!

22mm from the cup to pad sounds about right to me, I didn't measure it but called it an inch with my good eye.

Cheers
Keithy

[benji]

Thats so cool. Both of our kids love helping in the shed too; though the youngest one was banned today as it was up on stands - who knew a 12 month old could get so angry. .. not upset, actually angry - we started calling him James because he turned red.

So the overall problem with the gen3/TF145 with no spacers is that it over extends the bags by 1/4 of an inch. The extra 2 inches at the shock give 2.36 inches (6cm) at the bag, and with the added rotation of the diff it pulls the bags out to 18 inches; to which 17.75 is the maximum arnott specify.
It pulls them pretty tight too, you can't see it in the photo but it was lifting the rear of the piston off the diff (had the pins in obviously but it was lifting a whisker or so)
This was with 50psi.

So... If I lift the back of the bottom piston by 1/4 inch (which by the look of it would make a big difference), or, I could cut 1/4 inch off the upper bottom shocker rubber...

[Keithy P38]

I'd be inclined to lift the rear of the spring by 1/4" over messing with shock rubbers! Makes the most of the shocks that way.

[benji]

This is the photo at 50psi I wad supposed to load up.
Now to find a way to lift it 1/4 inch. May have to bite the bullet and drill and tap the piston to bolt it down with a sandwich plate.

[mtb_gary]

It's quite amusing reading about the younger kids antics. Mine are all grown up now, but still a source of amazement. Yesterday I was asked if he could borrow the boat to go fishing. Yes, no problem I replied. Then it was followed by "oh, and I'll have to borrow the Rangie too because my car can't tow the boat". Gotta love 'em :D

Gary

[Keithy P38]

I've gotta ask, those three lines coming down onto your diff, what are they! I don't believe I have them on my '99...

If you make the angle spacer thingy, you will probably get away with cutting a boss in the plate and using factory pins. My bags are held to the spacers that way. Then just weld the spacer/plate to the diff. Again, my rear spacers are welded to the diff.

Cheers
Keithy

[benji]

That looks like the way to go.

Early GEMS had the brake hoses jump down in the middle of the diff, along with the abs leads.

Cool, thats great, thanks.

[Keithy P38]

There ya go! You learn something new every day!

Let us know how you go mate!

[davidsonsm]

Reckon I'm pretty close to the air spring piston hitting the bottom of the top hat (hope thats the right way round to describe) when deflated. Measured the cars current height last night after a week of sitting. From the bottom of the upper crimp clamp ring to the bottom of the piston foot was 165mm. Very similar front and rear. That should give me 20mm of clearance. About right? The car still rocked with some springyness left.

The gap between my extended 75mm long bump stop and the axle pad was about 20mm. So with no air, there should just be contact. The solution I'm going to use, is to glue an ice hockey puck to the axle pad. They are 25mm thick. I have some spares if anybody needs some.

I'll check again with the system fully deflated. But that would mean I've added 15mm + 25mm to the standard 60mm long bump stops. Taking them to 100mm overall.

For those with circa 2" spacers, does my thinking sound about right. I'm obviously trying to allow for some bump stop compression.

I guess the increased articulation desire of this lift method has been compromised somewhat. And hence why the original HRA rear lift spacers simply extended outboard of the air air springs to pick up the bump stops. Shame. Is there another way?

[Keithy P38]

You are correct Sean.

Allowing for bump stop compression is also a good idea.

There is another way, but I'm not rich enough to pull it off...

1. Extend the pistons (rear only) by 1.5", fit longer air bladders (2" front and 3" rear).

2. TF144 shocks all-round.

3. Extend height sensors as desired.

4. Extend rear bump stops by 1" (solid not soft), leave front bump stops as standard.

5. Extend rear brake lines and ABS sensors by 3".

6. Weld a 3/4" angle bracket to rear axle for the springs to sit level-ish at height/articulation.

Done! Eliminates spacers and gets increased travel (3" at least in the rear).

Before anyone asks, I've already asked Arnotts if they'd consider a custom piston and bladder for one-off or commercial production. They flat out said no.

Cheers
Keithy

[davidsonsm]

Jeese Keith, you've really been thinking about this.

I've decided to add a half height hockey puck to each axle pad. It'll add 12mm to the 75mm extended bump stops. OEMs are circa 60mm.

I had the car on its bump stops today and I jumped up and down on each corner. There was still movement before you could hear piston/top hat contact. So the extra 12mm or so will be my safety factor should I ever hit the bump stop or end up on them.
Hoping that will complete my lift.

Apart from adjustable panhard rods. And possibly the 12mm spacers on the radius arms.

I've bought the synergy double adjusters and some 7/8"-14 weld studs for the panhards. I'll get them turned down to press fit them inside the panhard tube. Then get them welded. Jobs a good un.

[mtb_gary]

Sean
I'll be interested to know how those panhard adjusters go
Gary

[mtb_gary]

I've just had a look this morning and noticed that as well as the tyre rubbing on the RHR chassis there is also some rubbing taking place on the LHR shock. The rub is occurring when the shock absorber makes contact with the back of the EAS sensor housing. Is anyone else having the same problem? Or is it the diameter of the Off Road Boss shock that is contributing to the problem?

The Panhard rod adjustment would rectify this too!

Gary

[mtb_gary]

I've just ordered one of these :D
71963
Custom made to fit the 30mm OD and with the stronger 3/4" threads. I'm travelling next week and part of the following week but hopefully if delivery comes through fairly quickly I will have it welded and fitted by mid Feb. No more rubbing on maximum articulation.

Gary

[davidsonsm]

Hey Gary - where from. The guys on ebay stated they'd be a month away from being able to make, and they wanted to see the rods to double check the o.d. If its those guys you're using, you're obviously a sweet talker.

Good on ya. I'll race ya to the panhard finish line!!

[mtb_gary]

Sean

Yes, it's the ebay guys (Technico Automotive Components). Located not too far from you in Dingley Village. $65 each plus $14 shipping. I'm looking forward to trying them out :D

Gary


Hey Gary - where from. The guys on ebay stated they'd be a month away from being able to make, and they wanted to see the rods to double check the o.d. If its those guys you're using, you're obviously a sweet talker.

Good on ya. I'll race ya to the panhard finish line!!

[mtb_gary]

Sean
Parts should arrive next week (whilst I'm away) but once I'm back the following week will take them along to get them pressed on and welded.pics to follow as soon as I get them :D
Finish line in sight.....;)
Gary


Hey Gary - where from. The guys on ebay stated they'd be a month away from being able to make, and they wanted to see the rods to double check the o.d. If its those guys you're using, you're obviously a sweet talker.

Good on ya. I'll race ya to the panhard finish line!!

[davidsonsm]

Sean
Parts should arrive next week (whilst I'm away) but once I'm back the following week will take them along to get them pressed on and welded.pics to follow as soon as I get them :D
Finish line in sight.....;)
Gary

Good result. You should have a reasonably low cost solution.

Have you actually measured the offset of the axle at the higher heights? Are you going to centre the axles for highway height or standard height?

Have you given any thought to moving the front axle forward - via spacers on the radius arm?

[mtb_gary]

I haven"t done the measurement with a ruler as yet. visually I need to move around 15 mm. I might even get the ruler out tonight and check. I will be setting the centre position half way between low and standard as a compromise. As for the radius arms, yes, I should get around to them one day :o. It will take some of the pressure off the steering linkage joints too. As for the spacers to use??? I'll have to look at how much meat there is on the thread and base it on that. It "should" be a fairly straight forward procedure. But like everything else I'm sure there will be a "p38 glitch" along the way :angel:.

Gary

Good result. You should have a reasonably low cost solution.

Have you actually measured the offset of the axle at the higher heights? Are you going to centre the axles for highway height or standard height?

Have you given any thought to moving the front axle forward - via spacers on the radius arm?

[benji]

Apologies for the dual conversations; it's all related though!! And like Kiethy's and Peter's efforts, myself and others are benefiting - thanks!

Peter; you were saying the spacers for yours are 22mm on the front, and 32/12mm on the rear. Are you running any extended bumpstops?

I think i've got the front sorted. But i'm trying to make use of every mm of travel.

So far I have a 1 inch spacer ontop of the front bags, and a 1inch solid bumpstop block bolted to the axle.

On the rear; 28.5mm on the rear of the spacer, and 22.2 on the front. This gives me an inch (25.4) in the middle and lifting the angle of the piston by 1/4 inch. With a 1inch solid bumpstop block. I'll also lowering the top shocker bracket 1 inch.

Hopefully I can get away with a 1/4 inch foward lean on the bottom piston at what should be oem clearances within the bag... if that makes sense.

I'm a little dissapointed that in real life i can only seem to get an extra 1 inch on the front, and 2.1 inches on the rear out of the gen3s. On paper they have 2 and 3.5 inches over OEM, but with the extra diff rotation not so in real life.

I'll also have to see what eventuates from this chaffing issue; however, the spacers being ontop of the bag should fix it.

Hopefully seeing the cnc plasma guys tommorow... :D

[Pete38]

Apologies for the dual conversations; it's all related though!! And like Kiethy's and Peter's efforts, myself and others are benefiting - thanks!

Peter; you were saying the spacers for yours are 22mm on the front, and 32/12mm on the rear. Are you running any extended bumpstops?

I think i've got the front sorted. But i'm trying to make use of every mm of travel.

So far I have a 1 inch spacer ontop of the front bags, and a 1inch solid bumpstop block bolted to the axle.

On the rear; 28.5mm on the rear of the spacer, and 22.2 on the front. This gives me an inch (25.4) in the middle and lifting the angle of the piston by 1/4 inch. With a 1inch solid bumpstop block. I'll also lowering the top shocker bracket 1 inch.

Hopefully I can get away with a 1/4 inch foward lean on the bottom piston at what should be oem clearances within the bag... if that makes sense.

I'm a little dissapointed that in real life i can only seem to get an extra 1 inch on the front, and 2.1 inches on the rear out of the gen3s. On paper they have 2 and 3.5 inches over OEM, but with the extra diff rotation not so in real life.

I'll also have to see what eventuates from this chaffing issue; however, the spacers being ontop of the bag should fix it.

Hopefully seeing the cnc plasma guys tommorow... :D

Unfortunately my focus went elsewhere for some time now so all the bits are sitting there waiting to be installed.... Just got to prioritise it. I started off keen and moving forward, just lost the momentum in this upgrade.

Think I've done a locker, front bar, winch, dual battery, boot wheel carrier/bracket since starting this lift and stopping at it's install.

But like you I'm really hoping to not extend the bump stops to keep the articulation as much as possible but it is looking like I/we'll have to...

I'd be prepared to check the contact by lifting the rhs rear wheel with no air in the rhs rear bag to see if the two touch... Although not sure how I'll check this. Maybe try it with no bag in place and measure I guess. Wish I had a blown rear gen 3 bag to put in place just to see if the two parts touch.

But hitting a bump stop on cornering is what concerns me more. and not sure how to reenact that without destroying something.

Be interesting what Keith and others say about their angle once it was all installed. Would they reduce it if they did it again or leave it as is. I'm sure its better for the full droop and protecting the bag, but is it too much for highway and standard mode?

[mtb_gary]

Sean

I've just crawled out from under the car after making a couple of measurements. It looks like I may only need around 10mm additional length on the panhard rear bar. Trying to find 2 fixed points on either side that I could get a 30cm ruler or calipers in wasn't as easy as I thought it would be

Gary

Good result. You should have a reasonably low cost solution.

Have you actually measured the offset of the axle at the higher heights? Are you going to centre the axles for highway height or standard height?

Have you given any thought to moving the front axle forward - via spacers on the radius arm?

[Keithy P38]

I think we've got the angle perfect! In low the piston sits just forward of vertical, it seems like in standard and high that its practically vertical and at full droop its just off vertical again.

Wouldn't change a thing in regards to spacers!

Cheers
Keithy

[davidsonsm]

Sean

I've just crawled out from under the car after making a couple of measurements. It looks like I may only need around 10mm additional length on the panhard rear bar. Trying to find 2 fixed points on either side that I could get a 30cm ruler or calipers in wasn't as easy as I thought it would be

Gary

Gary, 10mm offset was what I measured in standard height at the rear. Not too bad really. I put a piece of timber across the outer tyre surfaces and measured the distance to the axle, attempting to ensure the same points were used. Measuring from underneath is probably better though.

The front is harder owing to the converging chassis rails.

[davidsonsm]

I think we've got the angle perfect! In low the piston sits just forward of vertical, it seems like in standard and high that its practically vertical and at full droop its just off vertical again.

Wouldn't change a thing in regards to spacers!

Cheers
Keithy

I agree. The angle of the rear spacers seems bang on. My rears are something like 40mm high at the front and 60mm at the rear - 50mm centre. Giving a slope of 5 degs top and bottom.

[Keithy P38]

I decided to do a lap of town in normal height yesterday, just for a comparison now it's sitting higher. I think I prefer it up there over the low height.

Ride quality is much better in normal height over imperfections and there is less body roll.

I think I'm a contender for panhard rod extensions!

Cheers
Keithy

[mtb_gary]

Keith

Week after next I should have mine on. Full report with pics of course. As it turns out it's only around 10 mm to extend but I'm sure it's going to change things for the better.
On another note hopefully you guys are ok up in N.Qld, it looks like another cyclone building off the coast. Down here on bribie island at the in laws it's just very humid compared with Perth ;).

Gary

I decided to do a lap of town in normal height yesterday, just for a comparison now it's sitting higher. I think I prefer it up there over the low height.

Ride quality is much better in normal height over imperfections and there is less body roll.

I think I'm a contender for panhard rod extensions!

Cheers
Keithy

[Keithy P38]

Thanks mate! It'll be good to hear how you go!

We are doing good, Dylan gave us 12hrs of rain and, so far, 2 days of humidity!

It might sound bad, but a Cat. 1 cyclone and the associated rain is just what we need! It's been a dry year up here!

Cheers
Keithy

[davidsonsm]

I decided to do a lap of town in normal height yesterday, just for a comparison now it's sitting higher. I think I prefer it up there over the low height.

Ride quality is much better in normal height over imperfections and there is less body roll.

I think I'm a contender for panhard rod extensions!

Cheers
Keithy

Keith, just had a note from the guys that Gary is buying the panhard adjusters from. See one of my earlier posts on the eBay seller, selling jack screw kits. They can make an adjuster set next week. They must be trying to combine with Gary's order.

I've made other plans, but if you're interested I can pass on the details.

For that matter - the same goes for anybody else wanting to make adjustable panhandle rods.

[Keithy P38]

Are they stainless? If not, ill weld them in myself!

Next question, are they a direct fit or do the panhards need special work beforehand?

Cheers
Keithy

[davidsonsm]

Not stainless as far I'm aware. Think they're regular carbon steel. The only technical aspects are the press fit sleeves that go over the oem rods and making sure you cut the correct length out.

[Keithy P38]

Cool cool

[mtb_gary]

Keith
It is carbon steel but as I do not have an oxy torch to do the heating up before pressing it on I'm going to take it to XLR8 4x4 to get it professionally fitted and welded.
Instructions for fitting can be found on this link

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BzSqZrfgsYE7VmF6NUVRSURmU0k

Because I'm only looking for an addition 10 mm or so I'm planning on having the length of the rod with the adjuster at minimum being the same length as the standard bar.

Gary

[Keithy P38]

That is a good idea!

[Keithy P38]

Took the Rangie out for a day trip with the local Landy club today. Was a good trip! I rate it about a 6 out of 10 for extreme driving. Pounded the old girl over corrugations and potholes, it kept coming back for more! I'm very happy with how the lift has turned out!

There was another P38 on the trip too!

Ill start another thread with pics and even a P38 failure too! Tune in later tonight to find out what happened ;-)

[Pete38]

Good to hear the lift went well.

I'll tune into the other thread for the pics and the failure

[benji]

Can't wait to hear more about how you went. Will you be getting sway bar disconnects in the future?



As an update on mine. Have got all the pieces cut out, with the d boss cnc cut. And am fabbing up the bumpstop blocks tommorow.

[Keithy P38]

Yeah I will be getting disconnects. The front end is so restrictive! Even if i've gotta make them myself, i'll get them!

Here's my first flex pic - not the best (there were still a few inches to go either side and front to back. I was parked on a pretty mean side-angle with a tree in my grille! Eventually i'll get a proper flex pic...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[davidsonsm]

Fingers crossed I reckon I can finally draw a line under my suspension lift and valve block rebuild issues. The car is staying where I left it overnight. No more sinking.

I had been getting faults in the higher two heights. Tracked that down to a FR height sensor. It was causing the vehicle to list and hence the fault. Put a spare one on and re- calibrated yet again and yippee. Result.

Now for the panhard rods, radius arm spacers and some sway bar disconnects. Got to sort out my headlights (becm) first though.

Feels good riding high, with two more heights up your sleeve!

[Keithy P38]

Good to hear mate! You have the priorities right too. I will eventually find the time to jump on the panhard rod bandwagon as I believe it's necessary. The vehicle rides better and sits flatter through corners in standard height, so I'd like to drive up there more often.

It could be me imagining things too, but I think it's safe to say that if you know you are going to be traveling 80kmh or more, it's best to drop to low height in advance. I 'think' that due to the castor angle it's more noticeable at speeds above 75kmh that the tyres are turning down a touch when you feed some steering into the old girl in standard height. Potentially could be bushes too, will have a look at some stage in the near future, I'd hate to get the wobbles!

Another plug for the terrafirma shocks too - I reckon between them and the boges (even just on a standard Rangie) I'd be getting terrafirma. They are a very controlled shock over corrugations and absorb nicely! Not too firm, not too soft. I'm yet to put 144's in the rear and you can notice the difference in what the front and rear end are doing. That's not to say the boges are crap - they were excellent on the bad roads up the cape, but terrafirma are better.

Keep the updates coming lads! It's good to hear everyone's progress!

Cheers
Keithy

[mtb_gary]

Keith

Rather than take over your post with the adjustable panhard rods I have created a new thread.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/192030-adjustable-panhard-rods.html

Gary

[Keithy P38]

No worries mate! Like I've said before, it's all a part of lifting a P38 so I'm not fussed!

I'll jump over and have a read now!

[Hammer H]

Hi All

just a couple of pics of my lift. Thanks all for your input especially Sean (Davidson) & Keithy.

[davidsonsm]

Gosh what are those shiny things? Looking like a new rangey under there. Assume new bump stops too? Same attachment method as oem?

[davidsonsm]

Also. Looks like you bolted the spacers to the axle pad front and rear.

For peace of mind, must get around to that. So far, no issues with the tight fitting D bosses coupled with 6mm lynch pins. Might be easy to run a weld bead though - now they're in situ.

[davidsonsm]

What tyre size did you end up with?

[benji]

Looks really good. Are they 2" bumpstop spacers? And how much did you extend the height sensors by?

Very nice!

[Hammer H]

Hey Sean,

yes just new bump stops with original mounting. The rears bump stop extensions are 4mm thick 50mm (high) by 100 wide and cut 100mm long, bolted down. Easy to drill (cobalt drill bits 3 sizes) and bolt with vehicle raised, bottom air springs disconnected and and diff lowered for access.

Front bump stop extensions are 4mm thick 50mm high by 75mm rhs cut at 75mm. Could not access to bolt so temporarily secured.

I was cautious to weld as apparently it is possible to damage the elecs even with the battery disconnected, there is only a chance but did not have the time to resurrect if all went wrong. (may also reduce height of front bump stop extensions).

Fitted 285/75/16s kms very happy with the performance. down to 15 psi pulls like a tractor and gives alot of confidence, so got to a few spots we could not before and hauled in quite a few fish. Best to keep it away from the eyes of the local cops though.

The 285s i found mainly scrub due to height of the tyre not so much width. Doesn't bother me.

Benji the height sensors are extended: front bottom arm +12mm fixed & top arm set + 8mm adjustable to 25mm.

Rear sensors rear bottom arm + 25mm top arm set + 20mm adjustable to 25mm.

Requires some more messing around for correct heights, but I'm not too bothered.

On a test drive I found the eas play up, while on freeway height. So I fitted an eas shut of switch. Now I only turn the eas on when I first start up to fill the air tank and when I want to change heights, then turn off. This for me has taken all the concerns away from, eas failure and I suspect is preserving the air compressor. Might not be for all.

Got pics along the way of the build, the bits for the extensions are from burnings, happy to help if there are any questions. Not any of my original work though just a copy and slight adjustments of others ideas.

thanks to paulp38a also for his help.

[Hammer H]

Keithy the tyres hit the two plastic corner edges in the middle of the pic. They can be pushed back 2cm quite easily by hand. To permanently secure I think would be easy, but dosn't bother me enough.

[Keithy P38]

That's nothing really! Certainly something that wouldn't worry you anyway, it's only a plastic liner anyway, not the actual bodywork...

Thanks mate

[mtb_gary]

Hammer H

The picture with the ski in the roof, was that taken at Wedge Island? Great stretch of beach up there for driving :D

Gary

[Hammer H]

Hi Gary,

its Parry's Beach Denmark on the south coast, on hat particular spot cars drive on it and you can ride your bicycle no problems, a few ks around though and its a different story.

[Hammer H]

Thats right Keithy

no problems with the body work, haven't given it the full on articulation acid test though. But again not a concern for me.

[FANTOM P38]

Hey Hammer I have exactly same tyres and occasionally scrape in same spot (funny that). Have been thinking about doing avertical cut from bottom inner corner and using heatgun to setback about 2-3cm to give just enough clearance.

[Hammer H]

Hey Fantom P38. that's a good idea, if you do let me know how it goes. Will have to pick up a heat gun next time at Bunnings.

[davidsonsm]

I was thinking of a spacer behind the radius arms, to bring the front axle forward 10mm to 12mm. Another potential solution - just not sure of the knock on effects.

[benji]

Tailshaft, front bag bottom to top hat clearances, and where the bumpstop sits on the axle would be the only issues.

The front bags would be very close to hitting I think.

[davidsonsm]

Anybody know the spline length on the drive shaft?

[Hoges]

The length of the shaft on the yoke is approx. 145mm of which the first 50 mm beyond the yoke is plain. Then there is 90mm of machined spline plus another 5mm or so where the end of the yoke shaft is "rounded off". The depth of the receiving section of the drive shaft from the bottom to the top of the internal spline section is about 140mm, then there's about 40mm of non-splined section to the top of the shaft... if that makes sense:eek:

[FANTOM P38]

I was thinking of a spacer behind the radius arms, to bring the front axle forward 10mm to 12mm. Another potential solution - just not sure of the knock on effects.
Would be worried about front drive shaft especially when I have lift kit already stretching it out a little!!

[Keithy P38]

10mm spacer on the radius arms, panhard rod mod, double cardan uni-joints in the drive shafts. The list gets longer! I think they are necessary for a lifted P38 running tall tyres though. The double cardan shafts will go some way to eliminating a slip-yoke popping out!

[davidsonsm]

Yeah. Not actually measured the length of the spline shaft showing in high height. Plan to do so. Would be good to know the engagement length at that height.

[Pete38]

Yeah. Not actually measured the length of the spline shaft showing in high height. Plan to do so. Would be good to know the engagement length at that height.

Perhaps also when the drivers side rear is pushed right up and the passenger side off the ground. Suspect this might be further down at the diff than the high setting. And thats a case where there is likely to be reasonable torque because you're probably climbing something.

[davidsonsm]

Yep - thought about that too. Sounds like a prop shaft extension would be required - doubler cardon shaft would indeed be the order of the day.

I'll try the extreme articulation, and work out how much spline engagement there is.

[Pete38]

I'll definitely be keen to hear. If I end up up getting round to fitting the bits I've already done lots of preparations for many a month ago :)

[benji]

Would a 10mm spacer on the diff and of the tailshaft work? I believe Tom Woods makes them.

[Keithy P38]

You could probably have one made up easy enough! A 10mm steel plate, plasma cut and drilled would do the trick.

[davidsonsm]

Would a 10mm spacer on the diff and of the tailshaft work? I believe Tom Woods makes them.

Benji, are you talking about this spacer in addition to radius arm spacers or without?