Lifted P38 on air - questions

[Keithy P38]

Here's one for those of you who've lifted your rangies and retained the Gen III springs...

Myself and Pbrown are in the process of lifting our Rangies (same designs co-drawn but applied differently), I'm at the stage where I'm ready to shop for shock absorbers and want to know how you lads went about it with feedback.

I'm looking at a set of Terrafirma Pro Sports +2" shocks. I understand that the front ones offer more wheel travel than the rears, so I'm going a set of 4 front +2" all-round as my design has the rears sitting slightly higher than the fronts anyway. Without going into too much detail as yet, I can afford 4" of extra wheel travel in the rear without lifting more than 2" for normal use (spacers are within 10mm of each other's height front to rear). The fronts will also have this option but I probably won't use it. Unless I get disconnects for the sway bar.

The Terrafirma shocks state a 40mm piston and 20mm double-chromed shaft, will this hold up to our corrugated roads do you think?

Next on the list is modifications to the height sensors...

Cheers
Keithy

[Keithy P38]

I should mention, the shocks are a twin tube design. Could this make fitting a task to the rear (seeing as they are designed for the front)??

Part number is TF144

[mtb_gary]

Keith

They certainly get some good reviews from those who have them fitted. Especially compared with the Bilsteins, nowhere near as harsh. There is also a TF145 designed for the rear with +2 inch lift. It may be a lot easier than trying to adapt the fronts into rears?
On mine I have the Off Road Boss 12 way adjustables as per the HRA 2" lift kit, so my ride is as soft or hard as required. I did however need to modify the shocks by putting a split pin through the mounting of the shaft as I managed to lose an entire chrome shaft whilst up in Karijini National Park. It managed to unscrew itself from the shock and axle mount Luckily I had a replacement shock in the garage at home (2000 k's away). Aside from losing the shaft, I have been pleased with their performance both on and off the road.

Gary

[Keithy P38]

My theory is that I have the ability to make the most out of the TF144's in the rear so if its not a pain to do I'm going to swing that way.

Adjustables would be nice!

[FANTOM P38]

Hey Keithy I also have had Hard Range kit installed now for a while and am was using Off Road Boss ( until tonight ) just swapped out my rears back to bilstein as one rear was leaking and other one does not seem to work too well either!!
As far as sensors go I extended the originals by way of cutting in half and fitting to a s/steel turnbuckle type centre so that they are very adjustable in situ so getting the values you require is quite simple. see attached pic.
I also have GenIII and 33" KM2's for your info.

[Keithy P38]

Thanks mate! How much extension did you put on the arms? You'd be able to pick up those turnbuckles from your local hardware store pretty easy hey? I'm guessing you tapped a right hand thread on one half of the sensor and left hand thread on the other?

It seems easier than my idea.

Cheers
Keithy

[FANTOM P38]

Just buy the arm from local hardware with threaded ends already on.
Once you have cut your original sensor bottom arm in half tap a r/h thread on top section to match thread in turnbuckle,( usually 6mm ) then to get l/h thread retain l/h threaded s/steel insert suplied with turnbuckle and weld (tig) other end of sensor arm to that - done!

[Pete38]

Just buy the arm from local hardware with threaded ends already on.
Once you have cut your original sensor bottom arm in half tap a r/h thread on top section to match thread in turnbuckle,( usually 6mm ) then to get l/h thread retain l/h threaded s/steel insert suplied with turnbuckle and weld (tig) other end of sensor arm to that - done!

So no broken sensors or bent sensor arms? I would have thought the extension of the arm and using existing rubber joints would be enough but thought I heard of some people snapping theirs due to extra rotation of the axle? I'm thinking it's only the odd person seeing as the Hardrange kit only changed the length of the bottom arm and that was it.

Edit: I bought rod ends for mine thinking it would allow more rotation but after seeing how flexible the rubber ends are already I'm now wondering whether there is any more rotation allowed with the rod ends I bought..

[davidsonsm]

Have you managed to work out how many millimeters of extension equates to how many mm of lift. Front and back? Assume you have to dial back any EAS electronic setting lift - otherwise you'd be hitting the ceilings prescribed in the EAS software. And are you bending the upper arms? Recall one thread where bent upper arms were necessary to compensate for overly long lower arms.

[Pete38]

Originally i was going to make both arms longer to increase the range of the sensor rather than mostly just just moving the range.

But I am now going to use a turnbuckle and rod end to extend the bottom arms. Pick the wheels off the ground and adjust the length of the bottom arm until it reaches close to the maximum extension and then hope that the compressed state is still in range as well. The hardrange kit extended only the lower arm and there are plenty of those kits in the market i believe...

The arm is nearly straight downwards at full articulation and the sensor arm is attached 4/5 of the way up the swing arm so i imagine 50mm more travel will need 30-40mm... I believe the hardrange ones extended it by 40mm for the rear and 20mm for the front.

Edit: No plans on bending as I have not read that for other cases.

And if the settings are left the same for the EAS it won't go out of range, it will just lift the car more and then adjust the values according to ones desire :) I'll be lowering my values down (below the standard numbers) so it sits at normal height for all but the offroad height because my spacers will be more angles than lift (I'm going for articulation with minimal lift). Keith's values will likely stay similar values because he is lifting by 2 inches all round with extra articulation.

[Keithy P38]

I think I'll bend the top arm at the point where it attaches to to sensor, a few degrees should do the trick.

The aim is to keep the whole combo from straightening as it could possibly return 180 degrees from the normal position and cause all sorts of dramas!

I will modify the length of my bottom arm once the kit is installed as I have 4" of extra wheel travel over a standard setup.

Trial and error will be the order of the day!

[rc42]

I recently changed out the standard air springs on my 2000 P38 and put in a set of Arnott IIIs, along with a full set of Terrafirma +2" shocks.

The ride doesn't really feel that much different to original as far as I can tell which is a good thing as I really liked the original ride.


One thing that does concern me about air springs is what limits the axle travel and stops the spring from being pulled apart when you lift a wheel while off-road? As far as I can see the only things to limit travel are the height position sensors and the shock absorbers and neither seem particularly robust to me.

[Keithy P38]

Shocks limit the travel. It is the better option on a P38 as the bags will pull off the piston if you let the axle droop far enough.

If it were the height sensors you would be breaking them left right and centre off-road.

I over-extended a Gen III spring on standard shocks, imagine if I'd had longer shocks to begin with!

I'm interested to hear about the terrafirma shocks. Do they eliminate the bounce effect in high when you travel over a bump?

[Pete38]

I recently changed out the standard air springs on my 2000 P38 and put in a set of Arnott IIIs, along with a full set of Terrafirma +2" shocks.

The ride doesn't really feel that much different to original as far as I can tell which is a good thing as I really liked the original ride.


One thing that does concern me about air springs is what limits the axle travel and stops the spring from being pulled apart when you lift a wheel while off-road? As far as I can see the only things to limit travel are the height position sensors and the shock absorbers and neither seem particularly robust to me.

Did you make any angles spacers or did you just fit the +2 shocks and the gen 3 bags?

have you lifted wheels off the ground much since? I'm concerned about over extending the bags without adjusting the rear angle of the bags myself. And with Keiths experience at over extending one with standard shocks I would be a little concerned. Also the rear sensor arms might be close to over extending as well.

[rc42]

The Arnotts claim about +3" extra length on the rear and +2" extra on the front (or something like that) so I just fitted the +2" shocks with no additional spacers but it is a real concern that I might over stress them. I did try to get some spacers from Hard Range but they had just stopped production and had no stock.

I blew the right hand rear Arnott bag a week or so after first fitting them, it was a gentle gravel road around Mt Mee, it was in high position but only going slowly and the road was fairly flat at that point. It looks like it may have been a manufacturing defect with the bag not crimped properly onto the aluminium base but Arnott express posted a replacement out that's been fine since.

Once you've heard the 'BANG' and dropped on one corner its always a worry when away from home, especially having the kids eith you. Limping home on rear bumpstops wasn't fun but at least now my spares include a front and rear airspring and a laptop with EAS software.

[rc42]

I'm interested to hear about the terrafirma shocks. Do they eliminate the bounce effect in high when you travel over a bump?

My original shocks were pretty badly worn and very soft so the Terrafirma shocks cut out a lot of 'bounce' but without making the ride hard or harsh, I'm seriously impressed with the ride now so the Arnott/Terrafirma combination will be kept for as long as I have the car.

I did think about gettings springs and scrapping the EAS after a long ride on bumpstops but I'm confident in my spares and knowledge now, I even have some manual inflation valves that would push onto the 6mm air line and let me use a tyre inflator to pump up the suspension. One day I'll fit some permanent valves and manual inflaters on the air lines under the bonnet too.

[Keithy P38]

Thanks mate! Has confirmed my choice in the Terrafirma shocks!

As for the right rear Arnott popping, I had the exact same thing happen to me in exactly the same situation! I was on a gravel road taking it steady and she popped! Lucky for me I had a standard bag in my spares kit, and as in your case Arnotts were more than happy to send a replacement.

Once the lift kit is finished and tested, Peter and I will have a "discussion" on our setups and the option of sharing the drawings. Obviously we need to consider the impact on other lift kit manufacturers (one that I know of which is in the R&D stage at the moment) before publicly sharing, but I'm sure on a small scale it wouldn't impact anyone at all.

Our kits are similar (mine and Peter's) in that our spacers are of the same design. It's the height and application that is different. I guess you could say it leaves two options for those wishing to DIY - the all out lift'n'travel kit or the conservative lift'with'benefits kit.

Cheers
Keithy

[Pete38]

The Arnotts claim about +3" extra length on the rear

I'm not trying to cause too much un-needed concern as you've obviously had minimal dramas since.... but the 2 inch extension in the rear shock does give about 3 inch more at the bag I believe because of the angle the shocks are.

To be honest I'd like no angles/spacers myself and just increased articulation so hope it works well for you, but for me it concerns me too much as I tend to lift wheels fairly often when offroad.

I've got spare bags, the manual valves in place, the eas immobilising switch, packers for the bump stops for the 265/75/16 tyres in case it ends up on the bump stops..... So slightly cautious but not willing to give up the eas :D

As Keith has said my spacers are going to be fairly low front and back, with only the back ones angled, and he is going for a little more lift.

Keith: I like the way you described the two ideas "the all out lift'n'travel kit or the conservative lift'with'benefits kit.". Sounds like a good marketing slogan :cool:

[Keithy P38]

Haha yeah! Slogans are the backbone of the sales industry!

[rc42]

I was actually thinking about getting some custom spacers made to sit between the bottom of the air spring and the axle, probably only about 40mm lift and really just to reduce the risk of popping a bag.

I haven't done any measuring and checking but was thinking that the single spacer could extend out to the bump stop and provide some packing under that too as I wouldn't want to damage the air spring by over compressing it either.

I was also thinking of maybe getting something like these and modifying them:
http://www.4wheeln.co.uk/shop2/img/p/7-38-large.jpg
(2" Spacer Lift Blocks set of four - 4wheeln (http://www.4wheeln.co.uk/shop2/product.php?id_product=7))


If you do develop a good design and are willing to get them produced by a fabricator or just share the drawings I'd be very interested.

[Keithy P38]

Our designs are similar but not made from 10mm plate, instead, 4mm. Ours are also cheaper to manufacture but just as sturdy.

If you decide to go with the customisation of those spacers you only have 4mm in the piston before the hole for your "R" clips.

Make sure you keep that in mind!

You will also need to extend your height sensors as they will over-extend and break.

As for bump stops - you can get an 80series land cruiser bump stop and make the centre hole slightly larger and it will fit as an extended bump stop. They are sectioned so you can also cut them down if you find they are too long.

As I said earlier, will have a chat to Peter once both of our kits are on and tested before we hand out designs.

Cheers
Keithy

[mtb_gary]

Keithy

On my lift at the front I ended up using docking rubber (as seen on the back of delivery trucks) mounted on the bottom plate where the bump stop would normally rest in addition to the standard bump stop.. So far so good, even though it does look a little agricultural. I do like the idea of the 80 series extended bump stops though!

Gary

[Keithy P38]

Cheers mate.

Yeah I see what you mean with the docking rubber, that's a good idea!

Ill still stick with the 80series unit though as I'm going to be working on a maximum articulation setup, so ill be utilising as much of those Terrafirma shocks as I possibly can. Full stroke!

I actually gave thought to a custom shock and dropping the lower bracket/raising the upper bracket and seeing how far I could take it on bags, however, there comes a point where you must accept that coils will always out-travel airbags.

I think the outcome will be quite good nonetheless!

Cheers
Keithy

[mtb_gary]

Keithy

Good luck with the project. I'll watch with interest ;)

Gary

[davidsonsm]

My two cents worth. My primary reason for adding around 20mm to.the length of the bump stops with 32" tyres, was to prevent severe rubbing in access mode. Just in case the eas collapsed at highway speed. I ended up cutting the originals off at the first shoulder (to retain the fixing hole) and gorilla gluing stepped poly bump stops to them. Works well.

Need to check my suspension travel. I've added height through eas settings. Does anyone know how the Koni shocks compare on.stroke with the terrafirma's?

Can anybody show their spacer design/set up?

[Pete38]

My two cents worth. My primary reason for adding around 20mm to.the length of the bump stops with 32" tyres, was to prevent severe rubbing in access mode. Just in case the eas collapsed at highway speed. I ended up cutting the originals off at the first shoulder (to retain the fixing hole) and gorilla gluing stepped poly bump stops to them. Works well.

Need to check my suspension travel. I've added height through eas settings. Does anyone know how the Koni shocks compare on.stroke with the terrafirma's?

Can anybody show their spacer design/set up?

Your rubbing is that bad is it? I'm running 265/75/16 KM2's (almost a full 32) and my tyres don't rub when on the bump stops (lower than my access mode) unless a small bump is hit then yes it rubs on the rear first, but not grabbing type of rubbing just black scuff marks. Well I know I can drive with no air in the bags, just wouldn't choose to for very long. Wouldn't think there would be major problems on a highway and slowing down with no sharp turns if its on the bump stops without ripping guards apart, maybe some nice fresh black marks on the smooth plastic at worst.... But I'd be lying if I wasn't thinking about the situation now :o

The Terrafirma's have roughly the dimensions attached (TF144 and TF145), not sure what the Koni's are without a model number. Keep in mind that with spacers the safe values are likely to be different. This was just something i whipped up at the start of my shock expedition. I had a few other models I had in mind from Doestch as well.

Edit: Both Keith and myself are in the process of slightly different designs but neither are complete yet. I hope to have mine done in the next month as I have ordered all the bits. See how it all goes though, and will likely share as much info as possible without damaging someone else's business venture whom these ideas were based off.

[rc42]

I have the 265/75R16 KM2 tyres on 16x8 alloy rims and can confirm no rubbing or catching the rear bodywork even when down on bump stops. The tread on the KM2's tapers in slightly so the width where it contacts the road is less, this is enough for it to tuck right up inside the wheel arch with a couple of mm to spare.

I haven't had the front down to the bump stops but for normal running I did have to remove the plastic mud guards and use some nylon tie strips to pull the plastic inner cover away from the tyre in a couple of places. A couple of small holes for the tie strips in a few places and this has worked really well.


As I said earlier, my main concern now is over-extending an air bag so I'm looking for some way to protect against that. A metal block between the air spring base and the axle seems ideal as it may improve articulation too but I've also seen a P38 with custom straps between the axle and chassis (looked like seat belt type stuff). My old series IIa had loops from the chassis that went around the axle but movement wasn't so great on leaf springs so that may not be practical.


Anyway, I've subscribed to this thread and I'll be following progress with great interest.



Robert

[davidsonsm]

Yeah I guess the at tyres (bf 265/65/18) are probably squarer. And me just being paranoid about abrupt stops at highway speed. Just trying to keep it all as safe as possible. Looking forward to.seeing airbag extension piece design as alternate to stretching the bags - as I.am.now. bring it on guys.

[FANTOM P38]

I have 285/75 KM2's ( basically 33" ) and have only minimal rubbing in access mode on front when turning they just clip the rear inside corner of fender on plastic sill trims, just removed mud flaps F&R.

I have not spent any time to correct this as it does not happen often, however it would be an easy fix with heat gun onto plastic trim and bend slightly backwards.

I also have HRA 2" lift kit & GenIIIs - no rubbing in rear arches at all - ever!
the only issue is the amout of rear axle shift towards passenger side when on offroad height due to panhard rod length. This also causes very slight tyre rubbing on chassis rail on r/h side.

If someone could come up with way to correct this it would minimise risk to rear left sensor also rear left bag comes closer to chassis.
Hope this helps.


I was running Off Road Boss adj shocks allround but had leaking rear so swapped back to bilsteins there. Will be looking for some other type in future but have not decided yet. Just waiting on info from King re option with remote gas etc. Will advise on their thoughts or options later.

[Keithy P38]

I machined up the spacer pins tonight at work, last few niggly things to do now and ill put it all together and chuck some pics up. Here's what I've done and what's left;

Done:
- Spacers are complete
- Spacer pins are complete
- New "direct replacement" longer bump stops sorted (these are also height adjustable)
- Shocks are on order - have gone with the TF144 all-round.

Need to do:
- Lengthen brake lines (will do this when I replace my pads/rotors in a few weeks)
- Fit the shocks and then adjust the bump stop for maximum up travel
- Once that's done I'll adjust my height sensors to suit

Will be a great little kit once complete!

Cheers
Keithy

[davidsonsm]

I machined up the spacer pins tonight at work, last few niggly things to do now and ill put it all together and chuck some pics up. Here's what I've done and what's left;

Done:
- Spacers are complete
- Spacer pins are complete
- New "direct replacement" longer bump stops sorted (these are also height adjustable)
- Shocks are on order - have gone with the TF144 all-round.

Need to do:
- Lengthen brake lines (will do this when I replace my pads/rotors in a few weeks)
- Fit the shocks and then adjust the bump stop for maximum up travel
- Once that's done I'll adjust my height sensors to suit

Will be a great little kit once complete!

Cheers
Keithy

Looking forward to seeing the progress via pictures. And the proof of the pudding of course - what it does for your suspension travel compared to stock - you have the stock measurements as a benchmark - yes?

[Pete38]

Looking forward to seeing the progress via pictures. And the proof of the pudding of course - what it does for your suspension travel compared to stock - you have the stock measurements as a benchmark - yes?

I'm thinking measurements from the centre of the wheel to the guard would be the best measurement huh? One taken at full compression and one at full extension.

Not much to report for me. Got shocks, got bits for sensor arm extension... Sent drawings off of spacers/angles to the fabricator. But the hard and good part to come. It's either gonna all be done in 2 weeks or more likely the beginning of august as I'm going overseas for a while.

[Keithy P38]

Yeah will grab pre and post measurements.

The idea is to use the kit more for the extra travel than the lift, although 2" odd is a good height. I think we're onto a winner ;-)

Cheers
Keithy

[Keithy P38]

Just a quick update, got things moving a bit more, I have the bits and pieces for the height sensor modification now too. The only physical parts to get are the extended brake lines.

I won't have a lot of time over the next few weeks to start fitting it all up but I will certainly get it ready. The height sensors will be the hardest part, the rest is a good half-days work, nothing really.

Cheers
Keithy

[davidsonsm]

Just a quick update, got things moving a bit more, I have the bits and pieces for the height sensor modification now too. The only physical parts to get are the extended brake lines.

I won't have a lot of time over the next few weeks to start fitting it all up but I will certainly get it ready. The height sensors will be the hardest part, the rest is a good half-days work, nothing really.

Cheers
Keithy

Good on ya. any photos to share?

[Keithy P38]

None as yet mate, ill start putting some up when I begin fitting.

[Pete38]

I'm also a bit away from completion myself. I've got all bits apart from the angled spacers for the bags. Had a few delays due to fabricators taking their time to quote, and then giving high prices to just have the material cut. Will organise these to get fabricated within the next week though.

But I'm on holidays jet setting around as of mid next week so I won't get a start on it until early August...

[DustDevil]

I'm trying to lift my EAS here in California and can't find anyone willing to do it without a kit. I am very interested in your product!

[RR P38]

I'm trying to lift my EAS here in California and can't find anyone willing to do it without a kit. I am very interested in your product!

You can get the required springs in the US.
https://www.arnottindustries.com/part_LAND_ROVER_yid4.html

You then need to re programme your EAS ECU, with unlock suite.

Plenty on the P38 page about all this.

[rc42]

There are plenty of options for castrating the P38 and fitting coil springs but if you want to lift and keep the EAS the options are limited.
As far as I can tell the only one on the market was from Hard Range but now that it's no longer available the options are limited to 'DIY'

I'm also watching this thread with great interest and hoping that something commercially available will result from it, or at least some designs that can be taken to a fabricator.

[Keithy P38]

The designs can most certainly be taken to a fabrication shop! Once I'm back from the cape ill get it engineered, again once the kit has been tried and tested ill have a yarn to Peter and suss out a "business friendly" way to allow others to use it.

I'm off to the cape in less than 4 weeks so ill wait until I'm home again to fit up the lift. I have everything now, all that's left to do is fit it up!

Cheers
Keithy

[rc42]

Surely a trip to the cape would be an ideal way to try and test the lift ;)

I'd love to do a cape trip and even the Telegraph Track but I'd be concerned about the water crossings and the wading ability of the P38, I'd class a lift as essential before attempting that .

Any change of some pictures of the assembled components just as a teaser?

[Keithy P38]

I've got enough height now to do it. When you think about a P38 in "high" setting, it's essentially the same as your average 2" lifted fourby anyway. The thing that scares me is the water. By getting a snorkel made up (which is happening right now) ill at least have peace of mind over the engine not ingesting water.

While I'd love to fit the kit up and test it out at the cape, I want to have time to fiddle with the height sensors and iron out any potential bugs. In one month I don't quite have the time to do that! Plus - the tracks I drive every other weekend are twice as hard going as the CREB or Telegraph Track anyway! I have a test ground closer to home!

As I said earlier, this lift kit is about maximising the wheel travel available (and then some by being cheeky). The plus side is that my next set of KM2's will be 255/85 and I can get away with it.

I'll chuck up a teaser when I fly home from work!

Cheers
Keithy

[TheTree]

I'd love to do a cape trip and even the Telegraph Track but I'd be concerned about the water crossings and the wading ability of the P38, I'd class a lift as essential before attempting that .

Hi

I know that stock P38's have done the cape so I don't see a lift as essential, but a snorkel sure looks like good insurance !

Steve

[Hammer H]

Hi all, I'm also following this thread closely as I'm also interested in a two inch lift for my P38 while keeping the EAS. Great work so far.

[mtb_gary]

I've got enough height now to do it. When you think about a P38 in "high" setting, it's essentially the same as your average 2" lifted fourby anyway. The thing that scares me is the water. By getting a snorkel made up (which is happening right now) ill at least have peace of mind over the engine not ingesting water.

While I'd love to fit the kit up and test it out at the cape, I want to have time to fiddle with the height sensors and iron out any potential bugs. In one month I don't quite have the time to do that! Plus - the tracks I drive every other weekend are twice as hard going as the CREB or Telegraph Track anyway! I have a test ground closer to home!

As I said earlier, this lift kit is about maximising the wheel travel available (and then some by being cheeky). The plus side is that my next set of KM2's will be 255/85 and I can get away with it.

I'll chuck up a teaser when I fly home from work!

Cheers
Keithy

Keith

Are you changing your diff ratios for the 255/85's? The 265/75's are already 10+% greater in circumference than the standard tyres.

Gary

[Keithy P38]

I'll run them for a while and see how they go first. I personally think the 4.6 has enough torque to handle them without a problem, so my only reason to swap ratios would be if it really struggles. Will be interesting to see how much it impacts low range as well.

I guess that's why we have transmissions in the first place, if its a kickdown that's needed to overtake a semi on the highway, then kickdown it shall be. I'd like to see how it handles 1900rpm-odd at highway speeds.

[benji]

Sounds really good. Always though the 4.6 needs a 5th gear.
Ill be very interested to here how you go up the cape (silently just a little green :censored:).

[Keithy P38]

That's the plus side of living within a days drive of the CREB track ;-) I was planning on heading up this time last year, however, a little bundle of joy was being baked and due to arrive so I put it off for a year!

[benji]

Thats right... hope all is going well, is the little one going too?
Our youngest is 8 months, so a bit to cold for camping down here atm.

Yeh, you are in a good part of the world.

[Keithy P38]

Nah the little one and mummy are staying home for this one! I'm going with another Rangie, should be a good trip! His is a classic with 200tdi - you can guess who will be depth testing the crossings!!

Went camping last weekend and actually pulled the jumper out! I'd hate to imagine how cold it is down there!

[TheTree]

Went camping last weekend and actually pulled the jumper out! I'd hate to imagine how cold it is down there!

Keith

It's been brass monkey territory on the Central Coast for the last few days, still nowhere near as cold as Canberra or Taswegia though :eek:

Still when you have 40 degrees and 95% humidity, we will be a little more comfortable :D

Steve

[Keithy P38]

Yeah camping in summer is a 5 star affair up here! As is anything outdoors!

[mtb_gary]

"Summer" over here in Europe. Not a p38 in sight in Frankfurt :(. We pick up a Merc SLK today for the week (it was the same price as a Hyundai i30). 25c and clear skies, well at least for now :D.

Gary

[Keithy P38]

That's the go!

[mtb_gary]

Bugger! Europcar didn't have the SLK waiting for us but they did have the BMW convertible diesel. I've been impressed so far. At 200 kph fue consumption is only 5.5 l/100 k! As well as being quiet it is also very responsive :D to the right foot.

If only we could do these speeds on Australia!

Gary

[Keithy P38]

Yeah... Plenty of Auzzie roads are in good enough condition for that ;-)

Not bad for a diesel mate!

[Keithy P38]

Here's the kit minus the extended brake lines. Ready to bolt in.

The kit includes:
Spacers (2 rear ones are at an angle to compensate for diff rotation - not necessary for the front as they do not rotate as much)
Spacer pins (the 4 steel objects which have been machined flat to replicate the locating bung on the piston of an air spring)
Spacer pin retaining clips (if you've ever worked in the mining game you'll know what these puppies are!)
Terrafirma TF144 shocks (all of them)
Mini turnbuckles (6mm thread)

Will be late August (once i'm back from the cape) or early September that I fit it up... I want to have 1 month to play around with the height sensors and make sure i've got it all right before i'll put my seal of approval behind it. I have some very hard tracks that i'll take it for a play once fitted.

Cheers
Keithy

[davidsonsm]

Here's the kit minus the extended brake lines. Ready to bolt in.

The kit includes:
Spacers (2 rear ones are at an angle to compensate for diff rotation - not necessary for the front as they do not rotate as much)
Spacer pins (the 4 steel objects which have been machined flat to replicate the locating bung on the piston of an air spring)
Spacer pin retaining clips (if you've ever worked in the mining game you'll know what these puppies are!)
Terrafirma TF144 shocks (all of them)
Mini turnbuckles (6mm thread)

Will be late August (once i'm back from the cape) or early September that I fit it up... I want to have 1 month to play around with the height sensors and make sure i've got it all right before i'll put my seal of approval behind it. I have some very hard tracks that i'll take it for a play once fitted.

Cheers
Keithy

Brilliant - looks great. Can't wait to see how you go. Would love to see some dimmensions/designs to try and replicate myself - subject to copyright and intullectual property restrictions of course!! The spacers look do'able DIY wise, but the pins would need a lathe/milling machine- yeah?

[davidsonsm]

Brilliant - looks great. Can't wait to see how you go. Would love to see some dimmensions/designs to try and replicate myself - subject to copyright and intullectual property restrictions of course!! The spacers look do'able DIY wise, but the pins would need a lathe/milling machine- yeah?

Looks like the EAS ride height sensors have the most work remaining. Will you be modifying the existing one's or playing around with a spare set (new or 2nd hand?).

[Keithy P38]

That's where the turnbuckles come in! Will thread both ends of a sliced height sensor arm and turnbuckle it up. Will have wax paper over the lot to protect the threads and turnbuckle.

The spacers are easily a DIY if your good on a welder and can get them cut yourself.

The pins were turned up on a lathe and milled down on a milling machine. Took all of 2hrs to make them all up.

[stickso]

Looking great. Instead of open turnbuckles what about something like this? It's just the centre section you need and could no doubt find cheaper without the bling

drop link kit blue 25mm for 70 centre (http://www.efihardware.com/products/81/drop-link-kit-blue-25mm-for-70-centre)

Got both left hand and right hand dies for the threads? :)

[Pete38]

Looking great. Instead of open turnbuckles what about something like this? It's just the centre section you need and could no doubt find cheaper without the bling

drop link kit blue 25mm for 70 centre (http://www.efihardware.com/products/81/drop-link-kit-blue-25mm-for-70-centre)

Got both left hand and right hand dies for the threads? :)

That's what I have sitting at home waiting to go on my height sensor arms, just mine are a little longer. Bought the turnbuckle part with rh and lh thread and bought a single rod end for the joint. Should work well for rotation and stress release from the sensor.

[Keithy P38]

Yeah that's the way I was headed but its cheaper to go with open turnbuckles so that's how I went! All 4 of mine were cheaper than 1 of those bad boys!

Will tap the lh thread using lh thread die yeah. I figure I can adjust it while feeling it out, then once the heights are good and the sensors don't over extend I'll wrap the lot in wax paper and seal it up.

I can also measure how far apart the original bits of height sensor are too, rather than approximate!

[Pete38]

Yeh true. They are damn expensive. My eBay specials were way cheaper than that.

[Keithy P38]

Either way, as long as it works hey! I rekon yours will look prettier :-)

[Pete38]

Either way, as long as it works hey! I rekon yours will look prettier :-)

Ha ha. Be covered in mud and dirt in no time under there but at least it'll look pretty for the first couple of hours.

[PaulP38a]

Looking good, just like a bought one Keithy :)

Something worth thinking about for height sensors... if you do perchance get the articulation calculations wrong and the diff/radius arm ends up hanging off the sensor arm, what do you want to break first?

Cheers, Paul.

[Pete38]

Hey Paul. Any idea what the resistance value is for a reading of 255 at the eas computer? And also a value of 0?

Was thinking that I might disconnect the height sensors at the elbow (eas turned off so no height changes are made) and lift a wheel. Then see how far the lower arm comes from the upper arm at full droop of 255 equivalent resistance and then install the adjuster to extend the bottom arm by that much.

Otherwise I'll disconnect the height sensors and leave the rear hatch open so the computer stays on. Then lift a wheel and use the eas software to see when the sensors show 255 and measure the distance as above.

The software will still read the values even though I'm sure I'll be seeing eas error codes won't I? About time I send my Nanocom off to get fixed in the mean time as that was handy for live readings.

[Keithy P38]

Thanks Paul!

Yeah I have considered the consequence of over-extending the height sensors. That is one of the main reasons for delaying fitting the lift until post-cape. As the P38 isn't our daily driver I can afford to have it off the road for R&D or accidentals, plus plenty of time to get it right!

Cheers
Keithy

[PaulP38a]

Hey Paul. Any idea what the resistance value is for a reading of 255 at the eas computer? And also a value of 0?

Don't know Peter, sorry. I am sure that someone somewhere has done this and shared here or on rr.net but have never looked for it.



The software will still read the values even though I'm sure I'll be seeing eas error codes won't I? About time I send my Nanocom off to get fixed in the mean time as that was handy for live readings.
Probably. I seem to remember that when the bit counts gets around 200 it will start throwing faults, and when below around 50 I think.

[Pete38]

Thanks Paul. Looks like I'll have a good bit of experimenting and playing round them to find what to wind the values out to. Main thing I'm aiming at is to have the sensors near, but not at, their value before faults when the shocks max out. Good news is it sounds like the faults happen well before making the sensors physically max out, so gives some good warning before breaking. If faults keep happening unexpectedly then I guess I adjust as necessary.

[davidsonsm]

Hey Keithy I also have had Hard Range kit installed now for a while and am was using Off Road Boss ( until tonight ) just swapped out my rears back to bilstein as one rear was leaking and other one does not seem to work too well either!!
As far as sensors go I extended the originals by way of cutting in half and fitting to a s/steel turnbuckle type centre so that they are very adjustable in situ so getting the values you require is quite simple. see attached pic.
I also have GenIII and 33" KM2's for your info.


Martin - do you have final adjusted lengths of the lower arms, front and rear? To give me an idea of the extension amount involved. I have a selection of rod ends and ball joints from midwest controls (Home - Midwest Control Products Corp. (http://www.midwestcontrol.com/)) sitting in the garage at home and wanted to check I'm in the ballpark for length.

Cheers - Sean.

[davidsonsm]

Keith and PBrown - would you let me know the o.d. and i.d. of the disc used for the 2" spacers - assume 5mm thick is enough. And the angle used for the rear. Wanna get some laser cut for welding up at home.

[Keithy P38]

4mm steel, if you go thicker you won't be able to put the "r" clip into the bag piston.

It's easier to explain via the drawings, the rear bags especially as they sit 180 degrees to each other so you need to get the direction of the piston pin right when welding.

Peter has the latest drawings (minor updates made after mine were cut). I'm sure he would be able to assist in your quest!

Mine were laser cut and came out a touch sloppy but still good enough to do the job.

Cheers
Keithy

[Pete38]

4mm steel, if you go thicker you won't be able to put the "r" clip into the bag piston.

It's easier to explain via the drawings, the rear bags especially as they sit 180 degrees to each other so you need to get the direction of the piston pin right when welding.

Peter has the latest drawings (minor updates made after mine were cut). I'm sure he would be able to assist in your quest!

Mine were laser cut and came out a touch sloppy but still good enough to do the job.

Cheers
Keithy

I'll upload the drawings once I'm back in oz in august. They are on my work laptop and need a little revising before releasing to the forum.

But I can tell you that we made the hole diameter 37mm but the pin of the bags are actually 35mm diameter. The slack should sorta work in out favour once the final design is finished. Off memory the flat spot on the D for the hole was made to be 30mm (28mm on the bag). The rear spacers for mine had 32mm/12mm taper for the uprights (middle 22mm with 20mm difference between for and aft) , with the front a flat 22mm (total height 30mm when you add the two thicknesses of the top and bottom plates) . Keith's were 20mm higher all round. Diameter of top and bottom plates was 125mm.

Hope that helps a little. Bit hard to describe in words.

If you can wait a month or so I'm back in oz and Keith or myself have actually installed them, I/we will be happy to share.

[Keithy P38]

Well said Peter!

[davidsonsm]

Much appreciated guys. I've just ordered the discs.

[Keithy P38]

We would have offered the auto cad files sooner, however we were hoping to put some real world testing behind the designs prior to letting them out.

More a "if someone hurts themselves using our design" thing. That said - these are not engineered yet, nor are we a business and as such we claim no responsibility for anything that may/may not happen as a result of the design.

If you can hold off a month or two ill have mine fitted and tested, as will Peter no doubt, We can then advise on what worked and what didn't work on the kit.

[davidsonsm]

No problem guys. Fully understand. Won't be in a position to fab the spacers for a while yet - very interested to learn from your tweaks and fine tuning.

[davidsonsm]

Peter/Keith,

Apologies for the questions but I've been wondering about the pins. What's the reasoning behind their need? Could you not have a D shaped boss welded to the underside of the spacer? I'm sure I must be missing something obvious. Cheers.

[benji]

The d bosses on the airbags are alloy, and the spacers made of steel. Can be welded but just not practicle.

[Keithy P38]

You could weld a boss to the bottom of the spacer. There is a purpose but is yet to be tested so can't say exactly as yet.

[davidsonsm]

Benji,

appreciate the Gen III's D shaped locator bosses are alloy. The spacers made by Keith and Pater allow the Gen III locator bosses to be fixed through the D shaped hole in the steel top plate via the R clips. As I understand it.

The pins that Keith has made got me thinking. Why not just weld a steel D shaped boss to the bottom disc - the one that sits on the axle pad. I'm just enquiring as to why pins are necessary - are they?

[davidsonsm]

You could weld a boss to the bottom of the spacer. There is a purpose but is yet to be tested so can't say exactly as yet.
Keith - apologies if we're getting ahead of ourselves here. I appreciate your reluctance to reveal all without the testing step.

[rc42]

Just came across this for the first time so I thought I'd post the link here for any others that haven't seen it already.

It describes the modifications that somebody has done to put a 3.5" lift on an air sprung P38. It's a lot more work than I'm prepared to do so 2" will be plenty for me.

Lifting the Air Suspension (http://www.rangerovers.net/rrupgrades/airlifts.html)

[benji]

Benji,

appreciate the Gen III's D shaped locator bosses are alloy. The spacers made by Keith and Pater allow the Gen III locator bosses to be fixed through the D shaped hole in the steel top plate via the R clips. As I understand it.

The pins that Keith has made got me thinking. Why not just weld a steel D shaped boss to the bottom disc - the one that sits on the axle pad. I'm just enquiring as to why pins are necessary - are they?

Ahh, got ya now. My apologies, misunderstood your post.

[Keithy P38]

Just another quick update!

Got my brake lines extended by 3" today (rather than drop the bracket). Had braided lines fitted as well, and instead of calling that a day, I fitted up my slotted and grooved discs with EBC pads and flushed the brake system as well.

Amazing difference! I thought my brakes were good (only changed due to impending cape trip), they are heaps better now!

A bit off topic too, but I had my tie rod ends replaced as well. As with the brakes, I thought my steering was more than acceptable, now it's immediate and doesn't wander! Sometimes it takes a big trip to prompt you to do these things but they were both well worth it.

And I killed two birds with one stone by having the lines extended while the rotors and pads were getting changed.

Left front piston slide had seized too, lucky pickup!

Cheers
Keithy

[rc42]

My P38 needs better brakes too, yesterday I fitted EBC heavy duty pads and new rotors (a Chinese copy of the OEM part so the front's aren't drilled or grooved) but haven't done a test run yet.

I'd like to get extended braided lines too and do a full bleed of the system, is there a place in OZ to get the braided hoses with the correct length and fittings?

[Keithy P38]

Not sure about OZ, pretty sure you can get "extensions" overseas, not sure about complete lines though.

Mine were done by a brake specialist, he came to where my Rangie was getting work done and fitted them up as the mechanic was changing bushes, then they did the full system flush and filled her up and bled it!

The lines themselves were $440, that includes a plastic sheath to prevent them getting dirty/damaged.

Cheers
Keithy

[davidsonsm]

I obtained my st stl braided extended lines from m-m4x4 out of the UK. I'd tried to get them thru many other outlets and m-m just seemed the best option. No doubt you could get them made up.

[RockJaw]

I obtained my st stl braided extended lines from m-m4x4 out of the UK. I'd tried to get them thru many other outlets and m-m just seemed the best option. No doubt you could get them made up.

And I thought I was the only one buying from them!

[davidsonsm]

Rather than play around with the ride height sensors when adding circa 2" of lift via the blocks, has anybody got any thoughts on the pros and cons of simply raising the lower arm attachment point (by circa 2") on the pan hard rods? That way, the geometry of the sensor arc doesn't change very much at all - or does it?

[Pete38]

Rather than play around with the ride height sensors when adding circa 2" of lift via the blocks, has anybody got any thoughts on the pros and cons of simply raising the lower arm attachment point (by circa 2") on the pan hard rods? That way, the geometry of the sensor arc doesn't change very much at all - or does it?

I considered moving the mount point up the control arm but it ain't an easy job by the looks of it. Some have even replaced the whole arm when they busted the rubber mount.

[davidsonsm]

I'll upload the drawings once I'm back in oz in august. They are on my work laptop and need a little revising before releasing to the forum.

But I can tell you that we made the hole diameter 37mm but the pin of the bags are actually 35mm diameter. The slack should sorta work in out favour once the final design is finished. Off memory the flat spot on the D for the hole was made to be 30mm (28mm on the bag). The rear spacers for mine had 32mm/12mm taper for the uprights (middle 22mm with 20mm difference between for and aft) , with the front a flat 22mm (total height 30mm when you add the two thicknesses of the top and bottom plates) . Keith's were 20mm higher all round. Diameter of top and bottom plates was 125mm.

Hope that helps a little. Bit hard to describe in words.

If you can wait a month or so I'm back in oz and Keith or myself have actually installed them, I/we will be happy to share.


Does that mean the slope/angle of the rear spacers is only 9.2 degs or thereabouts?

[Pete38]

Does that mean the slope/angle of the rear spacers is only 9.2 degs or thereabouts?

Just over 20mm between front and rear on the spacer just looked like a good compromise. Well I got under and lifted the car up and down and thought that looked good, then asked Keith and he had also thought that dimension.. So it stuck.

With that height difference the bag will have the rubber fold back onto the front of the aluminium piston first when pushing the wheel right up in the guards or on the bump stops (piston leaning forwards) . At the highest height on the eas the bag and piston will be fairly straight.

If the difference between front and rear was more, then even at highway height the bag will be on quite an angle with the aluminium piston leaning forwards. To make a spacer that made the piston and bag straight at full droop, then the lean forwards when pushing into the bump stops would be very high. I'm sure that would effect the ride with the angle on the piston.

I guess there are people with +2 inch terrafirmas running no angle spacers, so thought it should be safe with just over 20mm more on the rear of the spacer and not have the piston leaning forwards too much at the lower ride heights.

[davidsonsm]

Makes sense. Muchos gracias. Understand it's a compromise or happy medium. But reckon the more parallel the bag and piston at full extent, the better. Will do likewise myself - measures angles at full extension and compression. But no doubt will end up st similar angles/differences.

[Pete38]

Makes sense. Muchos gracias. Understand it's a compromise or happy medium. But reckon the more parallel the bag and piston at full extent, the better. Will do likewise myself - measures angles at full extension and compression. But no doubt will end up st similar angles/differences.

To be honest until I try it I won't be too sure.... So definitely curious of other people's thoughts.

I'm back in Oz again and hopeful pick up the Lazer cut bits for the spacers... Got the rest sitting at home, including the shocks from the UK. But there's still a fair amount of work and the next few weekends ain't looking like great work weekends.

I changed a few other buts on the car. The best being the EBD Greenstuff brake pads which feel way better than the previous pads which I think we're Bendix.. Maybe... Anyway going a little off topic.

[davidsonsm]

For those that have already lifted their P38's circa 50mm, are there any implications with regards to the drive shafts and/or caster angles and/or crabbing?


Cheers.

[Pete38]

For those that have already lifted their P38's circa 50mm, are there any implications with regards to the drive shafts and/or caster angles and/or crabbing?


Cheers.

I have heard that some can experience some vibration but it appears to be a minority. And that's solved by a double cardan drive shaft.

I know someone was looking at changing the pan hard bar to reduce the sideways movement at full articulation but haven't heard of anyone needing it for normal driving heights.

I don't think anything but the vibration is of concern from my readings.

Hopefully someone experienced can shed some light..

[mtb_gary]

For those that have already lifted their P38's circa 50mm, are there any implications with regards to the drive shafts and/or caster angles and/or crabbing?


Cheers.
Davidsonsm

I've got the HRA 2" lift, it's been installed now for close on 3 years. No problems at all caused by the lift.

Gary

[FANTOM P38]

Hi PBROWN I have the HRA kit installed also, however I have recalibrated each height setting via EAS Unlock so that my Access /Highway/Normal settings are at the lower end of each of their respective ranges and the Offroad is in middle of its range thereby keeping my car as low as possible most of the time except when extra clearance is required.
I also have 33" BF KM2's and Arnott GenIII's all round.
I have only occasional rub on fronts at full lock and some harsh potholes etc - which could be easily fixed by repositioning returns of sill panel covers.
Do not experience driveline vibrations but do have sideways pull of rear diff at offroad height. will consider new panhard rod if this would help,
however when in this setting am generally offroad at very slow speeds anyway, so not major issue.
Hope this helps.

[rc42]

That's my intention too, I want a lift kit to increase off road articulation but I don't want to change the on road ride height so I'll be doing a similar recalibration of the EAS.

When I first got the Arnott GenIII bags I adjusted the height to give another inch or so in all modes but there was a noticeable reduction in stability when cornering in 'normal' height, in fact I locked it into highway height when I got the chance and put the original EAS settins back when I got home again.

Those Land Rover engineers really knew what they were doing with the height settings.

[Pete38]

That's my intention too, I want a lift kit to increase off road articulation but I don't want to change the on road ride height so I'll be doing a similar recalibration of the EAS.

When I first got the Arnott GenIII bags I adjusted the height to give another inch or so in all modes but there was a noticeable reduction in stability when cornering in 'normal' height, in fact I locked it into highway height when I got the chance and put the original EAS settins back when I got home again.

Those Land Rover engineers really knew what they were doing with the height settings.

Same here with more articulation than lift height. Thats why my spacers are actually lower than what I posted on here. My spacers are more angled with a minor height increase, but still with the +2 inch terrafirma shocks and hopefully no bump stop extension...

[FANTOM P38]

Martin - do you have final adjusted lengths of the lower arms, front and rear? To give me an idea of the extension amount involved. I have a selection of rod ends and ball joints from midwest controls (Home - Midwest Control Products Corp. (http://www.midwestcontrol.com/)) sitting in the garage at home and wanted to check I'm in the ballpark for length.

Cheers - Sean.

Sean I am away at present, but can measure rear extensions later this week. As for fronts I made extensions out of flat bar 25x3mm & drilled two holes about 30mm apart to raise original lower arms by this amount as you don't need much extension on the front. hope this helps.

[Keithy P38]

Now that all the red dust has been washed off my P38 I thought it a good time to have a play with the lift kit today. Have taken my pins in to be shortened as they are just a touch too long to fit into the spacers.

Once I get them back (tomorrow), the kit goes in. I will then use the weekend for R&D to make sure nothing over-travels or bends where it shouldn't bend.

Obligatory pics will be attached at such time.

Cheers
Keithy

[Pete38]

Now that all the red dust has been washed off my P38 I thought it a good time to have a play with the lift kit today. Have taken my pins in to be shortened as they are just a touch too long to fit into the spacers.

Once I get them back (tomorrow), the kit goes in. I will then use the weekend for R&D to make sure nothing over-travels or bends where it shouldn't bend.

Obligatory pics will be attached at such time.

Cheers
Keithy

About time one of us made further progress ha ha. I sorta got distracted elsewhere. Keen to hear how you progress because it might make me get back on track ;)

[Keithy P38]

Here's hoping it does!

[Keithy P38]

I woke up today with a standard height P38. Tonight, Ladies and Gents, I go to bed with a standard height P38...

The first hurdle was the height sensor arms. I purchased a tap and die with a plan to thread the lower sensor arms and fit a turnbuckle to have fine adjustment of the sensors and make sure it was "just right". I have a faultmate, so I can easily fine tune the heights afterwards (knowing good and well that I'm at max in standard and high in the rear as is), but I couldn't obtain a left-hand thread die, so the dream ended early today after much driving around town and many phone calls to try and get the right die.

What I'm now going to do instead of using a turnbuckle is get a few M6 coarse pipe bushes and tap the right-hand thread on the arms and use them with double lock nuts instead, marking on the arms at the point I'd like to thread the arms in. It's a similar thing to a turnbuckle, except it won't tighten when spun one way or loosen when turned the other - it will thread one section in further as the other threads out. Not exactly what I want, but it will still do the job.

The other issue I had was the spacer pins being too long. I made them before the spacers were finished and they were too long to physically fit into the spacers so I had them trimmed (at great expense), so still have 40mm of dislocation which ain't all that bad if they prove to work as designed. I'm not equipped as a fitter/turner household so had to outsource the pin trim job... If only the garage was bigger...

So I still have a driving and suspension active P38 until I've got the sensor arms sorted, which has been the plan all along. If I can't do the sensors, it's not worth fitting everything else.

Ill be honest, it did my head in today... The joys of having mates who work while I play!

Will update tomorrow, hopefully with promising results.

Cheers
Keithy

[davidsonsm]

Keith,

Think I've got left handed m6 threaded die in the garage. Happy to post it up if it's what you need. Would have to check thread. Got it off eBay.

Cheers. Sean.

[davidsonsm]

Can you not attach (weld) the left handed threaded rod from the turnbuckle, to the end of the sensor arm that is cut?

[Keithy P38]

Thanks for the offer mate, I will pass at this stage as ill be fitting the kit up before it would arrive. I will change the game plan and run with the new idea.

I thought about that, however, the turnbuckle is stainless steel and I doubt the sensor arm is, and I don't have a tig! I can fit up a pipe bush (also known as a socket) and loctite it, just as good without the benefit of easy adjustment of sensor arms.

This will make it easier to lengthen the front arms as there's not a lot of meat on them and the turnbuckles were too long for the front anyway!

Cheers
Keithy

[FANTOM P38]

Hey Keithy check out my previous posts on the height sensors I made from s/steel turnbuckles available at mitre 10 with pics attached -easy as to make and benefit of adjustment up/down while fitted to vehicle!

[Keithy P38]

I did see that! That's the same type of turnbuckle I've got (I have four of them), mine are too long to use on the front sensor arms though so I'd have to get creative there anyway! Unless it was possible to shorten the turnbuckles... I only need them to be 35-40mm long and mine are more like 75mm.

Cheers
Keithy

[davidsonsm]

The easiest approach for the front height sensors is to lift their attachment point on the panhard rod by 30mm or so. As per Martin's technique.

Adjusting the height settings through the EAS unlock software is easy enough, providing you have a manual inflation kit fitted. Inflate the bags to the height you need/want, take the readings, then plug them in and save them. Apologies if this is grand mother sucking eggs stuff. I learnt the hard way!!

[davidsonsm]

I was actually considering using some semi-flexible plastic 25mm x 3mm thick (or so) to raise the front height sensor attachment point - to improve the flex of the sensor arms.

[davidsonsm]

Rigid Linkages - Midwest Control Products Corp. (http://www.midwestcontrol.com/part_family.php?id=7)

these guys have a myriad of different rod ends, ball joints and jack screws. If you can wait they would have a solution you could order. I've used them before - its a great website and service. I'm not in any way affiliated with them.

[Keithy P38]

So I've got a lifted P38, but not completely...

The height sensors have got me buggered! I measure them at 6mm by the good eye. I can't get my die to start on the arms with a 6mm die on... I got a great 7mm thread onto them, but not 6mm! Could not for the life of me get the 6mm to take!

Anyone able to confirm that the sensor arms are in fact 6mm or are they 7's?

Other than that everything is good!

For now I've raised it up and removed the delay timer.

Cheers
Keithy

[FANTOM P38]

Keithy, I took mine into an engineering place & they tapped thread on original sensor to match thread of turnbuckle then they welded l/h thread of turnbuckle to other end of original sensor arm that way everything works perfect and you can adjust each side to get almost exact values on both sides making calibration a breeze!
Hope this helps, Martin

[FANTOM P38]

[QUOTE=Keithy P38;1978939]So I've got a lifted P38, but not completely...

The height sensors have got me buggered! I measure them at 6mm by the good eye. I can't get my die to start on the arms with a 6mm die on... I got a great 7mm thread onto them, but not 6mm!

From memory I think I had same issue thats why I resorted to engineer also found it very difficult to get hold of l/h die that's why i resorted to cut weld for that end, been great since!

[Keithy P38]

Thanks mate, ill have to chase up some new bits in 7mm to finish them off!

Have spent a lot of time getting it all right, to the point the mrs is on my back now! Hopefully it all goes smooth tomorrow.

[FANTOM P38]

Let me know if youre stuck I can get a set of front & rears done same as mine & post up to you if need be - no problem!

[Keithy P38]

I should be fine! The game plan in there, it's the size of the arms that seems to be the issue now... As I said, measured at 6mm but act like 7mm! Ill just have to trade in my 6mm gear for 7!

[benji]

Not sure if this helps, you've both probably read it.
Arnott GIII - TF144/TF145 (+2 inch) - sensor mod (http://www.rangerovers.net/forum/7-range-rover-mark-ii-p38/52018-arnott-giii-tf144-tf145-2-inch-sensor-mod.html)

[Keithy P38]

Thanks mate. I had seen the mod before, just not the forum post!

6.1mm seems to be the diameter of the arms by two sources I've heard now. I might try and take .1mm off the arms so I can thread a 6mm thread.

Cheers
Keithy

[benji]

Can't find my copy of the engineers black book.

[Pete38]

Thanks mate. I had seen the mod before, just not the forum post!

6.1mm seems to be the diameter of the arms by two sources I've heard now. I might try and take .1mm off the arms so I can thread a 6mm thread.

Cheers
Keithy

One of those items that must be imperial... As in quarter inch. Have to admit I'm surprised how much is metric (German influence???) in the P38

[Pete38]

Thanks mate. I had seen the mod before, just not the forum post!

6.1mm seems to be the diameter of the arms by two sources I've heard now. I might try and take .1mm off the arms so I can thread a 6mm thread.

Cheers
Keithy

One of those items that must be imperial... As in quarter inch. Have to admit I'm surprised how much is metric (German influence???) in the P38.

Edit: actually that's not even quarter inch. That more like 6.35mm huh

[Keithy P38]

Yeah I measure 1/4" being more than the diameter of the arms, definitely 6.1mm!

I have conceded defeat with my idea of trimming 0.1mm off the arms to tap a 6mm thread. I tried and was still unable to get a decent go at it. I did only give it 30mins today, family time needs to start taking preference!

Ill get 7mm gear and weld it all together once it's all how I want it. If its not quite right I can tune it with the faultmate. If its still out ill get new arms and start from scratch!

Who does 6.1mm rod arms - seriously! Must be so they fit into the rubber ends.

Cheers
Keithy

[Pete38]

Yeah I measure 1/4" being more than the diameter of the arms, definitely 6.1mm!

I have conceded defeat with my idea of trimming 0.1mm off the arms to tap a 6mm thread. I tried and was still unable to get a decent go at it. I did only give it 30mins today, family time needs to start taking preference!

Ill get 7mm gear and weld it all together once it's all how I want it. If its not quite right I can tune it with the faultmate. If its still out ill get new arms and start from scratch!

Who does 6.1mm rod arms - seriously! Must be so they fit into the rubber ends.

Cheers
Keithy


In the workshop at work I know they had dies you could adjust in diameter. So you could start bigger than 6mm diameter and adjust the adjustment screw over the runs of tapping the thread so it slowly got less in diameter with the same thread pitch... I know they tapped my tapered thread down to a straight thread for the lockers regulator. So might be worth a try if you could get an adjustable die. If you weren't in a hurry I might be able to send an adjustable m6 die up to you..

[Keithy P38]

So many helpful offers from the forum! Thanks mate! Again, it's my fault that I'm in this situation, so ill pass on the offer!

My dies are not adjustable, I'm sure ill be able to take them in somewhere on Monday and have them done.

I did say to the mrs that once I tinker with the height sensors I'm committed, I guess I didn't expect this kind of muck around...

I hope they don't want to charge an arm and leg to do it... Might see if a mate has an adjustable one.

Cheers
Keithy

[Keithy P38]

It seems that I've run out of time to finish the lift before I leave for work again. I will have to pick it up after I'm home again.

I am putting my height sensor dramas down to 2 things:
- My lack of proper measurement of the sensor arms. Who can see 0.1mm by eye and confirm that?

- My thread die is not the most expensive, and likely not the best quality one available. Even though my whole set is brand new it may have turned out different if I'd spent a few more pennies on a precision set rather than a bunnings set.

I spoke to a fitter/turner today and he said that a 6mm die should quite easily start and successfully tap a thread on a 6.1mm rod provided there is a small taper on the end of the rod (which is exactly what I did). I'm leaning towards the second reason, but certainly can't blame the tools (ask any tradie - it's never the tools that you blame for a low quality job), but the fact that a 6mm die would not even bite has me wondering.

I am very glad I removed the delay timer before I started the job. I can confirm that I've got no leaks in the system, but also still drive around if needed. Although I did have to deflate my tyres to get the Rangie in the garage!

Once I've finished the lift off, ill start a new thread with pics and details on how it all went down, but that won't be until around the 15th of this month now.

Cheers for the offers of assistance from everyone thus far - I dare say had I taken any one of you up on the offers I would have the job finished sooner than the 15th! I do have skillful mates who are more intuitive than I am, sadly they were all unavailable this weekend and unable to assist, and I don't plan on seeing an engineer or workshop who charge $110/hr to tap 8 threads... Simply too expensive for the task I need done. If I don't have luck with my mates next week ill go up to 7mm connector nuts and weld the lot together!

I might sound a tad whingey about something so simple (let's face it - it's a simple task), that's due to the relative ease of the job and the fact that despite my attempts and somewhat average IQ, this aspect of the lift has literally turned the last whole week of my long service leave into a week of zero progress! I could have done a million things around the yard, spent many hours with my mrs & daughter, but instead I racked my brain out and achieved nothing!

End rant! I feel better now!

Will keep you posted guys!

Cheers
Keithy

[davidsonsm]

I can relate to that. Your pain is our gain, in terms of lessons to be applied. Not sure that'll make you feel any better. It'll all wash away once you've got it sorted. And proper sorted it will be. I'm following your lead, so don't get disheartened just yet.

[Keithy P38]

The heart is still there mate! It's happening - I am committed now I've hacked up my height sensors!

It hits hard when you know what needs to be done but can't do it for whatever reason! My workshop is well equipped but obviously not well enough for height sensors!

[davidsonsm]

I've just received a spare 2nd hand set of height sensors for precisely that reason. To hack away at. It'll put my m6 die (Chinese cheapy) to the test.

Keep on keeping on.

[Keithy P38]

Good work mate! A good idea to have backup in this event!

[Pete38]

I've just received a spare 2nd hand set of height sensors for precisely that reason. To hack away at. It'll put my m6 die (Chinese cheapy) to the test.

Keep on keeping on.

Mind me asking how much they were? Second hand I guess?

I might do the same if the price is right. Nothing wrong with my current ones so would be hard to spend too much on a full spare set.

Cheers, Peter.

[Pete38]

The heart is still there mate! It's happening - I am committed now I've hacked up my height sensors!

It hits hard when you know what needs to be done but can't do it for whatever reason! My workshop is well equipped but obviously not well enough for height sensors!

Gees mate, little buggers. I'm sure the end result will make up for all the headache. Easy part afterwards huh. Shocks and placing spacers can't have too many surprises.

[davidsonsm]

They were €150 landed out of Portugal - the home of the p38! The guy has actually sent 4x fronts and 2 rear. Makes me wonder if two of the fronts have issues. Wonder if you can bench test them. Saw another full set out of the states at $110 plus p&p but that was after the fact. Would still prefer to use my originals, due to known pedigree and settings, but the spares will allow the luxury of messing about.

[Pete38]

They were €150 landed out of Portugal - the home of the p38! The guy has actually sent 4x fronts and 2 rear. Makes me wonder if two of the fronts have issues. Wonder if you can bench test them. Saw another full set out of the states at $110 plus p&p but that was after the fact. Would still prefer to use my originals, due to known pedigree and settings, but the spares will allow the luxury of messing about.

I know you can put a volt meter on them and turn them slowly to see if the resistance increases smoothly. An old school dial one would be best.

[Keithy P38]

Just digging this one up again, now that I'm back home. Today I removed the front sensors and took some of the rubber meat off the lower arms to allow me to thread them as well. The job only took half an hour to do (including removing the sensors). Tomorrow ill cut them and take it all in and have a shop do the threading for me seeing as the rears gave me so much grief.

I have pics so I can include them in the final write-up once I've finished the lift.

Should (and I do say that with hope in my breath) be all done and dusted by Saturday arvo. I'm only able to secure an hour or two each day to play in the garage so I'm tinkering when I can!

Cheers
Keithy

[davidsonsm]

Strange how you've had such trouble with the rear arms. I measured them with vernier at 5.9mm dia. The left hand die worked fine - this was the none adjustable type of die. The right hand die was the adjustable type and went down the rod fine again. The right hand die was borrowed - cos my own were naff and didn't get the thread started.

Reckon it comes down to quality of die. Oh and my mate showing me that dies have a lead in side! Good luck with yours.

[Keithy P38]

That's odd! I wonder if its a quality control thing? I measure my fronts at 6.1mm as well. It shouldn't have been an issue, it's such a simple thing and thread dies have a taper to start the cutting for that very reason!

Could be my die I guess, although the whole set is brand spankers! One of my mates has a good set, finding the time to catch up with him is not so easy though! Ill make an early start today and see if I have any luck!

[davidsonsm]

Interested to hear how you go. Like you say, frustrating given it should be a straightforward job. Can't believe the fronts would be different to the rears. I'm only threading the lower section of the rear arms and tubing the upper section.

From the front sensors I've made a bracket that simply raises the sensor attachment point on the radius arm by ~28mm. The arms are 1m long and the sensors are half way along on the front. Hence half of a 50mm lift = 25mm plus a bit more to allow a greater buffer on the e eas settings.

Good luck today.

[Keithy P38]

So I have sorted the rear sensors! My die must be of lesser quality, my mate has a snap-on set and tapped the 6mm thread I was after with no worries at all.

The front sensors were a tad different. Even with some rubber meat removed there was not quite enough arm meat to grip and tap a thread, so what I did was buy two large bolts (m12 by 120 I think they were), I cut it to my desired length and then drilled a hole in each end, mixed up some chemi-weld and stuck each end of the sensor arm in and that was that. I'm letting it set properly overnight then I am going to drill a 2.5mm hole in each end and put a split pin through sideways to ensure security.

That all said, I snapped the little elbow half of the arm while nipping it all together (the rear arms that is), and will now have to tap a thread further down the little arm to be able to continue! I got heavy handed and it is my fault!

I expect that I should have it all fitted up by Tuesday arv.

Cheers
Keithy

[Keithy P38]

Ok so it's 12:30am on Tuesday, and the rear is all done. I finished up the sensor arms at 9pm tonight (didn't start on them again til 7:30pm last night), then it took me 3hrs to muscle the new shocks in and properly fit the rear spacers, then put the extended sensor arms in.

Being so late in the night I decided against starting the engine and testing each height out - ill do that tomorrow (today now!).

The front will be a walk in the park as ill be able to see what I'm doing a lot better.

I lifted the diff as high as I could, keeping an eye on all moving parts as I went. The limit for up-travel is not the shock absorbers, nor the air springs as they fold nicely over the piston and spacer, but the height sensor arms are the bottle-neck for up travel. They only just foul on the chassis with the brand new OEM bump stop sitting 15mm from the pad. I would say it comes down to each individual's height sensor mod as to the limit here as I've extended my rear arms by 48mm and fronts by 23mm where others out there have not gone this far. I wouldn't imagine that a matter of 5mm in sensor arm will make much difference though - food for thought for anyone else doing their own lift kit.

This means that ill have to extend the bump stop pad height or get a different length bump stop. The aforementioned 80series land cruiser bump stop is a no-go as the base is metal and will not actually fit over the factory holder thingy. Ill search for more options as a replacement bump stop before I commit to welding a lump of steel to increase the bump stop pad.

So today some time ill hook in and do the front, take a few measurements and work out if I can get away with anything cheekily!

For those interested, I've gone with the Terrafirma TF144 all round (they are a P38 front +2" shock), and the shocks do not bottom out when used in the rear of a P38 that has been lifted 50mm. At a glance I'd say they still have a good 1.5" of up travel.

Will update again tomorrow!

Cheers
Keithy

[davidsonsm]

Keith, regarding bump stops. I extended mine by 20mm by gluing together the base of the original (sawn off at shoulder) to a stepped poly bump stop to allow cutting at the desired height/length.

This allowed the existing button, push over attachment method to be maintained. If you follow my babble.

Regarding the rear sensors. If both the top arm and bottom arm are each extended by 25mm, do you think that would deliver a better result? Ie there would be less fouling?

[Pete38]

Keith, regarding bump stops. I extended mine by 20mm by gluing together the base of the original (sawn off at shoulder) to a stepped poly bump stop to allow cutting at the desired height/length.

This allowed the existing button, push over attachment method to be maintained. If you follow my babble.

Regarding the rear sensors. If both the top arm and bottom arm are each extended by 25mm, do you think that would deliver a better result? Ie there would be less fouling?

Was gonna say the same. The angle of rotation should be less when pushed right up... Hopefully that will help a little, if you could be bothered with all the headaches you've had already.

[Keithy P38]

Thanks for the idea mate! Might be worth doing I think! I have a whole set of OEM bumpys here that I'm replacing as I go, I can use 30mm or 40mm off the old ones and glue them to each other.

With regards to the sensor arms, I only extended the lower arms of each (top arms are still as they left the factory). The geometry of the arm at 25mm top and bottom arm would probably deliver less height to the ecu, but would also probably tuck up nicely.

It is possible for me to modify them again, the rears are a simple screw-on job and I can lower them easy enough, not sure if I will though!

[davidsonsm]

Used gorilla glue. Good stuff.

And I made a circular hole recessed to appropriate depth, and same diameter as the bumpstop, in a piece of two by four wood to ensure I cut the bump stops level.

[Keithy P38]

Here's a few pics before I get really busy!

Today I fitted the height sensors but did not have enough time to tinker too much with Rangie... I will have to remove my second air compressor to access the top shock absorber bolt on the left hand side at the front.

It's an easy two or three hours when i've got the time next, so will probably be a week or so. Seeing as the height sensors are in, I thought i'd suss out what my new heights are like (except high as the front has not got spacers under the bags yet).

Measurements confirm that I'm sitting 55mm higher than before the lift (primarily due to the height sensors).

In these pics you will see the rubber meat I removed from the front height sensor arm to allow modification of the arm, a pic of how I modified the front arms (why I didn't take one today is a mystery as they now have split pins as well to ensure they don't separate), and a poser shot of my rangie in the new "Standard" height (as best as I could take from where it currently sits).

Cheers
Keithy

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/p38a-range-rover/65717d1379413655-lifted-p38-air-questions-img_2493.jpg

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/p38a-range-rover/65716d1379413355-lifted-p38-air-questions-img_2494.jpg

[Pete38]

Onya Keithy. Coming along nicely mate. Your standard height makes mine look like a fully sick lowered civic now..

So when you down in Sydney to help fit mine? I know your not a fan of the city, but it will involve helping a mate out ha ha. I've got all the bits and tools so no need for BYO.

[Keithy P38]

Haha yeah if I was down there I would lend a hand for sure!

It's up nicely now, going off my pre-measurements my new "standard" height is 15mm higher than my previous "high" setting. Spring rate should be good too as my spacers are 60mm overall, so to gain 55mm with my height sensor mod and no adjustments with the faultmate is pretty good for a first timer!

The best advice I can give to you Peter?
- Height sensor mods: Get a good die and you'll tap a thread no worries. As for the fronts I went chemi-weld, not sure how you are tackling yours, but mine are rock solid!

- Shocks: Pre-pump them vertically (should be done to all shocks before fitting them), and have your muscles handy! Fitting them was the hardest part of the lift. I'm no bodybuilder and it took every ounce of my strength to push the pin up to locate it!

- Spacers: Have your Rangie in access height before you begin and the bags will not be hard to lift off the diff to fit the spacers. I left my air lines in for fitting and had no dramas fitting them. All of two mins to do.

If I can sneak down there ill lend a hand!

Cheers
Keithy

[FANTOM P38]

Well done Keithy done my own & two mates now, so for anyone considering a kit its not that difficult to do once all the bits are there.

[Pete38]

I'm keen to see that flex in the back once you've got it all sorted. The travel with the +2 fronts in the rear is gonna be huge.

[mtb_gary]

Keithy

Well done with the new heights! Just out of curiosity what heights have you got now when measured from grount to the bottom of the guard (where the plastic inner guard meets the mefal outer guard)? I did a quick check on mine this morning (Tyres 265/75/16)

Access: Front 855 and Rear 855

Highway Front 875 and Rear 885

Standard Front 910 and Rear 920

High Front 950 and Rear 965

Gary

[Keithy P38]

I am away from home for a week at the moment, I can recall that the lower wheel lip to guard height is 775mm in standard height, slightly higher at the front (which the faultmate will remedy once I have the front spacers in). Can't recall the difference from the ground as my little notepad is at home!

I'm on 255/70 tyres.

Cheers
Keithy

[Keithy P38]

I've got a feeling that ill get away without needing to modify the front bump stops for this lift as the height sensor has no obstruction. The arc of travel on the sensor will be the determining factor (the height sensor was the reason for need to modify bump stops in the rear due to chassis fouling, the shocks and springs had plenty left).

[davidsonsm]

Keith, just wondering how close the shockers are to bottoming out when the car is on the bump stops? Good job by the way. Looking great be chuffed is done. Sean.

[davidsonsm]

And the driving test? Any vibrations or pulling?

Meant to say "you must be chuffed it is done" - in my previous post.

[Keithy P38]

I think there is still an inch or two in the rear before the shocks bottom out (TF144's). If it were not for the height sensor coming into close contact with the chassis I believe you could get away with factory bump stops, no mods. As the TF144 is theoretically 4" longer than the factory boges, you would see a 4" increase in wheel travel if you could avoid the height sensor issue. I will be welding some 40mm box section to the bump stop pad to overcome my issue, so in theory will gain only 2" of wheel travel - perhaps a touch more as the bump stop compresses.

I won't be taking it for a drive til next Thursday, then I'm off to articulation heaven on the weekend. I will certainly update the handling characteristics once I've got everything sorted!

Still gotta fit front spacers yet!

Cheers
Keithy

[Pete38]

Don't forget the rear wheel extension is close on 1.5 times the extra length you have in the shocks because they are angled. So you got more articulation than that Keith. Happy Days :)

[goanna_shire]

Your P38 is gonna wipe the floor with my perentie again keith! I'm afraid your combination in that thing (traction control, locker and muddies plus new lift) makes the 'practical' perentie look like a land bruiser struggling for traction and generally looking bogged. Maybe its time for me to get some lockers etc...;):D

P.S. I love Dalbeg

Cheers,
Brian

[Keithy P38]

Dalbeg is going to be good! Provided I have my bump stop mod done! Might have to do a quick trip to mt Louisa before heading to dalbeg, make sure nothing binds!

I reckon your Perentie is a beast, has an awesome donk and general presence to go with it!

A locker would even things up though! Or you could get a P38 too! See any you like?

[mtb_gary]

I had someone else take a few pics whilst I was going through one of the stages in the W4 challenge....there were quite a few comments re the articulation and capabilities of the p38 :D

Gary

[Keithy P38]

I'm looking online at bump stop options and I've seen that XJ Cherokee front bump stops are a push-on affair. I will hit the jeep dealer up for a squiz when I get home and see if they are longer than P38 ones and if they will fit.

Sadly 80series cruiser ones have a metal base and are a bolt-on unlike my first thought.

Will report back in a few days!

Cheers
Keithy

[Keithy P38]

Just looking online some more, most of the new yank soft-roaders have a very similar bump stop to the P38, but they do appear to be longer than ours by a fair margin (which is what I'm interested in).

The Patriot and compass are two, the Dodge Avenger and Caliber, and the Chrysler Sebring all use the same (rear) bumpy.

Ill be going for a visit to the yank sales yard Thursday I think!

[rc42]

I actually attached a set of OEM bump stops to the end of a set of replacement bump stops using about 8 nylon tie strips on each one (I'll try to sort out a picture). This was following a drive home on the OEM bump stops after a rear bag failure.

I still want to increase the bump stop length with something more permanent as the original OEM ones are perished and coming apart so I was thinking about fixing something, probably rubber, to the axle bump stop plate and leave the standard ones on the chassis alone. I feel that the push on fixing would make them prone to be knocked off if something caught them when off road.

[Keithy P38]

That's a fair call. It would be a pain to have to ride home on the bump stops (again) haha!

I wouldn't worry about anything knocking them off out bush though! If a stick or rock or kangaroo can get to the bump stop, I'd be worried more about piercing a bag or ripping a brake line!

Cheers
Keithy

[mtb_gary]

Tis is what I rigged up for my front bump stop extensions - so far so good

66071

66072

Gary

[intheozone]

I have been looking at this thread with interest as i will probably be copying some of the ideas.

I have gen III bags and I am currently running. 255/70r16 tyres. I only really want to make changes to 1) fit some bigger tyres would love to fit 33" tyres and 2) increase flex.

I am not too concerned with increased lift much beyond what I will get from the bigger tyres. That said I will probably get TF144's

What is making you need larger bump stops?
Why do you need to move height sensors would simply extending the arms work?

Beyond putting in the gen III's in I have not even thought about where to go.

[mtb_gary]

I have been looking at this thread with interest as i will probably be copying some of the ideas.

I have gen III bags and I am currently running. 255/70r16 tyres. I only really want to make changes to 1) fit some bigger tyres would love to fit 33" tyres and 2) increase flex.

I am not too concerned with increased lift much beyond what I will get from the bigger tyres. That said I will probably get TF144's

What is making you need larger bump stops?
Why do you need to move height sensors would simply extending the arms work?

Beyond putting in the gen III's in I have not even thought about where to go.

Without the larger bump stops the tyres will rub should you get a bag failure.

Gary

[Keithy P38]

Thanks Gary! I think you may have posted those pics before - I do remember you talking about them!

The lift kit is pretty simple intheozone, very simple actually. My issue was time and tooling!

Regardless of what you do to the springs, you will need to extend the height sensors. In my kit I've extended the rears by 47mm and fronts by 23mm. The sensors are in the original spot, they have not moved. The reasoning behind the longer bump stops is purely because the rubber grommet that joins the upper arm and lower arm in the rear sensors will touch the chassis and likely be damaged if the bump stops are not extended.

I'd leave them standard if I could get away with it! If I popped a bag I would throw a lump of timber on the bump stop pad and cable tie it down to get me home.

The shocks still have plenty of compression left, as do the bags (they roll over the spacer as they compress).

My idea behind aftermarket bump stops is for one reason only - I can walk into a dealership (jeep in my case - hopefully) and buy an off the shelf part to replace them with. It's simple and does exactly what I need!

Once I've sorted the bump stops and put the front spacers in, ill be taking out to see how it handles full droop on maximum articulation to make sure that my spacer pins are dislocating the airbags from the diff as planned!

I'm lifting for the same reasons you are! The TF144's will do the job nicely!

Hope this provides some insight!

Cheers
Keithy

[Pete38]

Without the larger bump stops the tyres will rub should you get a bag failure.

Gary
Edit: I wrote this before Keith's response but had a half hour phone since...

I'm not looking at extending mine at all as I will only go the standard +2 rear and only a short angled spacer. So the shocks shouldn't max out and I don't think the height sensors will either.

I think Keith's having to extend because his sensor arms touch but he is lifting a little more, but more importantly he has even longer shocks in the rear so he would have needed to extend the height arms more...

In the case of a bag popped I have emergency extension of bump stops. Cable tie some flat rubber onto the axle plates.

I really hope I won't need to extend the bump stops as I'm hoping for more articulation than lift necessarily. I'm pretty sure there are others running standard bump stops and angled spacers.

Peter.

[Pete38]

On another note Keith. I'm gonna get my spacers welded up this week... But still likely 2 weekends till I fit the hardware. Well more the height sensor part.

Or do I remove the height sensors and switch off the eas... Then finish the arms over a few days while at work during the week... Hmm maybe I'll be doing it sooner ha ha.

I might also have some parts left over if anyone is keen for some freebies. But probably only worth it if they pick em up. The place that Lazer cut my bits made 2 extra round plates and a few of the vertical bits of the spacer.

[Keithy P38]

I left my Rangie in standard height, pulled the delay timer, then set out to do my height sensors before anything else - that way the Rangie was still driveable if the sensors were the only thing I managed to get done at the time. Good way of finding any leaks in your system! I left the sensors out for two weeks and the car was still sitting where I left it when I next worked on it.

You could do it in the reverse order if you wish, just means you'll be driving at factory heights with spacers on - no biggie if you don't plan to go offroad before the kit is complete.

Time is an issue (as was upper body strength) for me. That said - only took 3hrs for the rear kit to be fitted and all four height sensors. Do it during the day, makes it much easier!

Cheers
Keithy

[rc42]

If I popped a bag I would throw a lump of timber on the bump stop pad and cable tie it down to get me home.


That's exactly what I did with an 8" length of 4"x4" hardwood, it worked perfectly and was a great bit of bush mechanic work if I say so myself.

Unfortunately I got stopped by traffic police near Caboolture for only doing 70 in a 100 zone and he slapped me with a $260 fine and 3 points for an 'unsafe suspension modification' and also forced us to get a tow truck to take us the rest of the way home.

[Keithy P38]

There you go! Shame about the copper though... You were doing a bit of bush suspension remodeling to prevent further damage to your Rangie and he was a few tickets behind for the month hey!

[Keithy P38]

So i've finished the lift. Front spacers and shocks are in. Below you will find a pic of the Rangie in the new High, Standard and Highway settings parked in front of our Dmax (which is running 245/75/16 KM2's - so slightly taller than what's on the Rangie. It's the chassis clearance that makes the lift that much better!

On the topic of the "Lift Kit", I'm advising anyone considering the dislocation pins that i've made to NOT USE them. Just reversing out of my relatively flat driveway I managed to dislocate one of the rear bags! The spacer pin is in the centre of the spacer (as per the boss in the bottom of the piston being centred). What has happened is due to the high pressure required to lift the vehicle into the High setting, as i've reversed out of the driveway the bag itself has pushed one of the rear spacers up at the front and turned bag + spacer into a "V" shape. The dislocation pin has prevented the bag and spacer from collapsing completely and I managed to jack the chassis up enough to straighten it all out without popping a bag. I wish i'd taken a photo of the incident, but sadly I was more worried about popping a Gen III and rushed in to save the day.

I will now be shortening my spacer pin to the exact size needed to secure the spacer to the diff and prevent dislocating. I will also need to run with limiting straps in the rear as there is easily another 6" + left in the rear shock travel when the rangie is sitting in the High position and I can see that without dislocation the TF144's are going to be too long unless I re-make the rear spacers an extra inch taller. The fronts will not even need to dislocate as it's clearly visible that the shock is further extended than what the rear is at the same height.

Back to the drawing board - I was really hoping the pins would work, gravity and physics got the better of it! Perhaps I can put spacer limiting straps on the spacers to prevent them dislocating unevenly... ??? ... ??? Thoughts?

Here be the pics! I think the rear looks higher in the pics due to the angle I've taken the pics from, the vehicle does sit relatively level in all heights.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=66240&d=1380184622
In the HIGH setting


http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=66241&d=1380184821
In the STANDARD setting


http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=66242&d=1380185160
In the HIGHWAY setting


Cheers
Keithy

[mtb_gary]

Great effort Keithy :twobeers:

Gary

[benji]

Too right!

Great work. :clap2:

[davidsonsm]

Keithy - could you post the heights you've ended up with - from centre of wheel to underside of wheel arch?

Great work. It looks monsterous - in a good way.


Appreciated. Sean.

[Keithy P38]

Will do Sean.

[Keithy P38]

On the topic of bump stops again, I'm off to a wreckers shortly to inspect a set of XJ Jeep front bump stops.

Nowhere - and I mean nowhere, stock XJ Cherokee bump stops in 'new' condition. Not Jeep, not the suspension shops, not the 4wd accessory shops (ARB, etc)... If they appear to fit ill order a set.

Cheers
Keith

[Keithy P38]

I had the issue of the spacer dislocating again today as I was putting the Rangie back in the driveway. This time it was not as pretty, the clip securing the dislocation pin actually snapped clean off and bent the mount at the diff where the spacer sits (a hammer will fix it!).

I'm making clamps to secure all 4 spacers to the diff and getting limiting straps made up. No way am I going to risk popping a spring over an extra 4" of wheel travel...

I apologise Sean, I didn't get the chance to measure the heights due to this issue!

Here's the pic!

Cheers
Keithy

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=66275&d=1380279235

[goanna_shire]

Wow Keith that looks bad! Its as if there needs to be a bigger circular plate welded to the diff for the spacer to sit on so not so much strain goes on that pin.

Brian.

[Keithy P38]

Yeah, a massive flat plate, almost twice the size of the current one - essentially a massive foot!

Great idea!

[goanna_shire]

If you can make a larger plate on the diff and bolt the spacer to it so there is only 1 dislocation pin for the alloy piston on the air spring where it goes through the spacer. That way there is only 1 pivot (move) point for the whole shebang.

:D Brian

[Keithy P38]

You can guess what ill be doing tomorrow! Feel like chucking your eyes over it?

[goanna_shire]

I will have to have a look I think..:D

[Keithy P38]

Ill be on it around 10:30 tomorrow morn if you wanna pop over! Or just come around when you like, ill likely be at it all day!

[Keithy P38]

Thanks to Brian for popping over today to bang heads with me. We looked at the situation, discussed the options, the end result being that the right rear spacer (the only offender thus far) is slightly off-true. He has offered to disassemble and re-weld it for me.

The spacer pins will be ditched, the plates are going to be bolted to the diff. The TF144's are going to be too long so I'm going to need to offload them and get some TF145's in their place. Anyone want to buy a brand new set of Terrafirma Pro Sport front +2" shocks!?!

The damage to the Rangie was more than I first thought. The diff took a fair bit of time with a hammer to straighten the bend in the spring mount, then if you look at the upper mount, it was bent up, down and inside-out as well. I managed to straighten it out a bit. What alerted me to the top damage was the fact that the bag literally fell out as I jacked the car up today. The pin had come out but the air line was still attached.

So to anyone using pins to secure the spacers - I'd advise against it!

Will be a few weeks until I touch it next, I may bolt the other 3 spacers down as they are still on the car at present.

For Gary, sorry mate I can't get all heights, but I can tell you that ground to guard lip in highway height is 870mm (average). Front sits 10-15mm lower than the rear.

Cheers
Keithy

[Pete38]

Damn huh. But coulda been worse with two popped gen 3's I guess. And I'm sure someone will eventually want some TF144's that have only done a few metres.

[Keithy P38]

Yeah, 5metres to be exact haha!

[davidsonsm]

Sorry to hear what has transpired.

You've made me think that bolting down the spacers via the bottom plate would be wise.

At least it all happened in your driveway. It'll be awesome when done. Shame about the TF144's.

[mtb_gary]

Thanks to Brian for popping over today to bang heads with me. We looked at the situation, discussed the options, the end result being that the right rear spacer (the only offender thus far) is slightly off-true. He has offered to disassemble and re-weld it for me.

The spacer pins will be ditched, the plates are going to be bolted to the diff. The TF144's are going to be too long so I'm going to need to offload them and get some TF145's in their place. Anyone want to buy a brand new set of Terrafirma Pro Sport front +2" shocks!?!

The damage to the Rangie was more than I first thought. The diff took a fair bit of time with a hammer to straighten the bend in the spring mount, then if you look at the upper mount, it was bent up, down and inside-out as well. I managed to straighten it out a bit. What alerted me to the top damage was the fact that the bag literally fell out as I jacked the car up today. The pin had come out but the air line was still attached.

So to anyone using pins to secure the spacers - I'd advise against it!

Will be a few weeks until I touch it next, I may bolt the other 3 spacers down as they are still on the car at present.

For Gary, sorry mate I can't get all heights, but I can tell you that ground to guard lip in highway height is 870mm (average). Front sits 10-15mm lower than the rear.

Cheers
Keithy

Keithy, so sorry to hear of your dilemma after all the hard work! Just curious, did the unwanted dislocation only happen when in reverse?

Gary

[Hammer H]

Hi Keithy is this any help, i found this amongst heaps of the info ive researched as im also looking to lift my p38 2 inches

Bump Stop modifications:
Remove factory bumpstops. Tools: angle drill, a 5/16 drill bit, & 3/8 -16 tap.
New Bump stops: Engergy Suspension part #99101
Drill out center of factory bump stop, tap hole & screw in new bumpstop.

Have an image not sure how to insert.

Not sure what the reference pat is

watching with interest

Paul

[FANTOM P38]

Hi Keithy,
Just recently had some bump stops made up for Danmal P38
at a plastics engineering place here in Melbourne cost around $80 pair if I recall correctly worked a treat!
Sorry to hear about your spacer issue ive been wathing with interest to see how those dislocating mounts were going to work. Think it may be much safer to bolt them down as in the Hard Range ones we are using - no issue in that regards although the idea of dislocation sounds great the angle of the top mount would be the critical factor to allow relocation i would think! Hope it all works out well for you anyway.

[Keithy P38]

The issue happened in both forward and reverse directions. It was only the right rear that did it too!

It is a shame about the 144's, for now ill chuck my old front shocks in the back until I've got 145's. If no interest ill keep them as emergency spares!

For bump stops I want to keep the vehicle as factory as I can. This means I would like to avoid drilling holes if I can, but also want the ability to return it to factory standard if I wanted. Ill go with the jeep ones, will order one (at $8 each I'd rather that than $80), and its a part I can get ordered in rather than custom made.

If the family gets a great share of me over the next day or so I might bolt the other spacers down and do the shock swap.

Cheers for the comments fellas!
Keithy

[Hammer H]

Are there any problems with running the standard Boge front shocks all round as others have done with a two inch lift? Other than im guessing there would be less travel compared to other shocks like T144 and T145s?

I'm hoping to do the same all round with the front Boges

Paul

[Pete38]

I wouldn't suggest that but others might say different. You'll be picking wheels off the ground too easily so there probably isn't too much benefit. You could look at changing the eas heights instead. But this too will encourage to lift wheels off the ground.

[Pete38]

Ahh. Just read front shocks all round.

You have gen 3's yes? Otherwise you'll over extend the rear bags.

But I reckon the front wheels might still lift a little easier due to being near the limit of their down travel in high mode. The rear will be almost the same as the 145's in extended length.

[Keithy P38]

There would be no problem running the front boges all round. Theoretically you will lose 2" of wheel travel in the front by doing that (in conjunction with the 2" spacers), which defeats the purpose of the kit in the first place!

Ill happily run them in the rear, but the front definitely needs a +2" shock to operate in a happy stroke.

I've not heard of anyone running the front boges all-round with lifted springs though!

Cheers
Keithy

[Hammer H]

I see what you mean, so it would be ok to use the standard front boges in the rear and fit t144s in the front like your doing.

If thats the case I need some t144s, im in Perth how much are they

Paul

[Pete38]

I know a good pair that you might be able to buy hey Keith??? But the problem you might have is different valving between Boges and Terrafirma. Although some rumours have it that they are similar, well closer to Boges than the Bilsteins I have... but I can' tell seeing mine have been sitting in the garage for quite some time.

[Hammer H]

Yes pbrown

that's with gen 3s,

I'm also looking to lift my p38 2 inches, the 285 km2s are on their way.

Having problems locating 2 inch extended brake lines though m&m just emailed me and said not made not available,

Are these generally being custom made? and only required for the rear?

Paul

[mtb_gary]

Yes pbrown

that's with gen 3s,

I'm also looking to lift my p38 2 inches, the 285 km2s are on their way.

Having problems locating 2 inch extended brake lines though m&m just emailed me and said not made not available,

Are these generally being custom made? and only required for the rear?

Paul
Paul

I've got a 2" lift on mine and not needed to go down the path of extended lines.

Gary

[Hammer H]

That's handy to know Gary, Ill tick that one of my list

slightly of the track, replaced p38 my heater matrix today without removing dash or the steering wheel by the suggested shortcut. Im probably not the first though

Paul

[intheozone]

So the tf144 are the front and it needs the TF145 for the rears?

How much will you want for the TF144s? I don't have the money ATM but look to be doing similar to you shortly.

Steve

[Keithy P38]

As Gary said, you can get away without extending brake lines, you may need to lower the bracket a few inches though. I went custom with my brake lines. They were all extended by 3". In hindsight I could have gone 2" and been fine, but I'm not one for playing with close tolerances so I have left a bit of room to move with mine.

The ABS/wheel speed sensor will need to come down though. Mine now (without dislocation pins) stretches the lines without the bag even being fully extended in the rear. You can drop the bracket for the brake line which will also drop the ABS line at the same time.

As for TF144's, if you would like my brand new, only fitted and never actually driven on, send me a PM and we can organise a price.

The TF145's are the rear +2" shocks, yes.

Cheers
Keithy

[Hammer H]

Hi Keithy

you will have to educate me, I know of three PMs a couple that are not doing much at the moment.

I think Steve is also interested, don't want to step on any feet

Paul

[Keithy P38]

That's ok mate, PM stands for personal message (or private message, either or).

I'm sure it'll work out either way, the shocks are fairly well priced outta the UK, so even if toes get crumpled, it won't be earth shatteringly devastating!

The early bird gets the worm!

That's me for another week of playing lift-kit fellas! Will be back at it next thurs, once the family have had their chance to enjoy my company as much as the Rangie does!

Key lesson this week - I'm not an engineer and air springs are not supposed to dislocate like coils. Nuts and bolts are the only solution here it seems!

Cheers
Keithy

[davidsonsm]

Keithy and Peter,

I realise this is your post, so I hope you won't mind me highjacking it. The subject matter is the same. And given I've copied your work, I hope you'll consider it a complement.

I have now extended the pair of rear height sensors using carbon fibre tent poles on the top arms to extend them from 150mm to 175mm. The bottom arms are set at 145mm from the original 120mm, but can be adjusted using the turnbuckle. Hope it works. The brackets in the centre are for the front sensor arms - I've decided to leave them stock and simply raise the attachment point on the radius arm.

66558

The next photo shows the amount of welding I have in store. The spacer brackets unassembled.

665606656666569

The front spacers have parallel plates. The rear spacers are angled at 5degs top plate and 5degs bottom plate. I've still got to cut the 100mm pipe sections for the rear spacers. Will be a lot harder on the rears than the fronts due to the angle.
Wish I had a chop saw.

[mtb_gary]

Keithy and Peter,

I realise this is your post, so I hope you won't mind me highjacking it. The subject matter is the same. And given I've copied your work, I hope you'll consider it a complement.

I have now extended the pair of rear height sensors using carbon fibre tent poles on the top arms to extend them from 150mm to 175mm. The bottom arms are set at 145mm from the original 120mm, but can be adjusted using the turnbuckle. Hope it works. The brackets in the centre are for the front sensor arms - I've decided to leave them stock and simply raise the attachment point on the radius arm.

66558

The next photo shows the amount of welding I have in store. The spacer brackets unassembled.

665606656666569

The front spacers have parallel plates. The rear spacers are angled at 5degs top plate and 5degs bottom plate. I've still got to cut the 100mm pipe sections for the rear spacers. Will be a lot harder on the rears than the fronts due to the angle.
Wish I had a chop saw.

I'm glad it's you and not me, my welding skills are crude at best!

Gary

[Keithy P38]

I agree with Gary! You are certainly in for fun welding that up!

Your kit looks good! The 25mm extension of the arms is 23mm less than what I have done, but I am sure you will work out exactly what works for you once you have it all installed.

The reinforcing will certainly be peace of mind for you while driving! If they break then I'm in serious trouble!

Good work mate!
Keithy

[Pete38]

I'm glad it's you and not me, my welding skills are crude at best!

Gary

Looking good. No problem jumping in. It's all for the same cause :) Only jealous that you might be done before me because my time has been diverted elsewhere.



I agree with Gary! You are certainly in for fun welding that up!

Your kit looks good! The 25mm extension of the arms is 23mm less than what I have done, but I am sure you will work out exactly what works for you once you have it all installed.

The reinforcing will certainly be peace of mind for you while driving! If they break then I'm in serious trouble!

Good work mate!
Keithy

Hey Keith. Should point out he extended the top and bottom arm so the total is 50mm.

So the extension at full droop should be very similar to extending just the bottom arm 50mm. But when the wheel is pushed right up, the rotation should be less than the single 50mm bottom arm extension due to the angles.. SO hopefully less likely to foul out or over turn the height sensor. I did an example drawing to illustrate this when I first looked into it.

I was looking at doing both but laziness made me wonder if I'll get away with just the bottom arm... Time will tell I guess once I finally pull mine out.

[Keithy P38]

Thanks for pulling me up on that Peter, I mis-read the post!

Early starts and odd weather ill blame it on ;-)

[Pete38]

Thanks for pulling me up on that Peter, I mis-read the post!

Early starts and odd weather ill blame it on ;-)

Ha ha. We all have those moments.

[goanna_shire]

Hi you guys,

Just a suggestion which keith has already heard. Your height sensor arms need to be bent to an angle which makes them move in the same arc as previously fitted. Simply lengthening them will make them foul on your chassis. Especially the rear ones. I believe if you extend the length of the rod poking out of the sensor a bit you will achieve a scenario where your access will end up 'similar' to how high it was pre lift but will give you your lifted height in highway mode(what ever you call it):(. Esentially a bit of research into fulcrum adjustments will be your friend here.

Just trying to help. Don't mean to step on toes:D.

Cheers,
Brian.

[rc42]

I got a nasty reminder this weekend about the importance of the component matching and sizing for the air suspension components, sorry its so long....

Some time ago I replaced the standard air springs with a set of Arnott IIIs and because of their extra maximum length I fitted a set of Terrafirma +2" shocks at the same time. I've been following this thread with interest as I intend to extend things properly and all has been great for almost a year with several trips with beach and dune driving, until Saturday....

We went for a long weekend trip to Fraser towing a camper trailer, all was going great until about an hour into the beach drive when we got caught by surprise by a washout that was much deeper on the exit side than in looked, front and back bounced into the air as we went over and about a minute further on we got the slight rumble from the back end 265/75R16 KM2s touching the wheel arch liners as it went down onto the rear bump stops, the EAS control was flashing the extended height LED so all was not good.

I had a look underneath and the NSR height sensor arm was missing, broken off at potentiometer on the chassis and also just below the center hinge (so that was gone too), the other side looked OK but clearly one sensor reading full height and one reading normal height completely confused the EAS so it decided to drop the pressure on both bags. Fortunately, the potentiometer was still working and could be turned by hand to give more sensible reading to the EAS and after much trial and error this allowed it to re-inflate the bags to something near normal and pulling the EAS control relay made it stay that way.

OK, on with the holiday, the P38 is a pulling machine with car and trailer tyres all dropped to 16psi, we got through dune tracks that the jap cars were struggling with without trailers.

Anyway, on Monday on the way home we dropped off the trailer at Eurong and headed out to Lake McKenzie, its a long slow drive to get there, over an hour, through rough sand tracks but we made it OK. We even got most of the way back until we got the familiar 'bang'...'hisssss' from the OSR airbag.

The bottom 'R' clip had disintegrated and the bottom aluminium piston had tipped over onto it's side then been pinched between the chassis and axle plate, this tore the bag out of the crimp ring and released the air. Fortunately we were on a wider part of the track so we pulled over leaving room for others to pass, then it was out with the spare original bag and after a bit of struggle the replacement was in and the EAS relay re-inserted to inflate it back up to something like normal, then out with the relay and off we went again at a greatly reduced speed.

So, I'm now going to order a set of standard length shocks (I didn't know that these restricted the maximum axle travel when I got the +2" shocks) and I also need to get a replacement height sensor assembly, fortunately I do already have a spare Arnott III rear bag.

I'll also keep following this thread as extending the sensor arms or making them telescopic in some way to cope with a sudden extension without breaking is important for piece of mind, the +2" shocks will likely go back in eventually but only after the +2" extension to air spring base and bump stops has been completed.

[Keithy P38]

That's a shame mate! The good thing is that you managed to fix it up enough to get you home! Time to order some spares hey!

It's good that you already have the shocks for when you do lift it!

The delay timer relay removal trick is a godsend!

[mtb_gary]

rc42,
Sorry to hear of your mishap but glad to hear you were carrying enough spares to get out of the problems. Maybe it is a timely reminder for all of us to check and recheck modifications to ensure that problems such as yours do not occur. Hopefully you'll not need to spend too much to get back to a fully functioning car.

BTW, how are the brake lines and ABS sensors after the flight?

Thanks for sharing the experience

Gary

[rc42]

Hi Gary,
No problems with the ABS sensors or brakes (so far anyway), I think the standard rear lines can cope with the additional 2" extension but thanks for the reminder, I'll check them carefully for any signs of damage this afternoon.

The front hasn't shown any sign of problems, I suspect that the anti-roll bar may have slowed things down enough so that leaving the ground for a moment wasn't enough time for the axle to fully drop. I've ordered a set of standard length shocks all round though, I'm going to give the Brtipart Cellular Dynamics units a try.

[benji]

Those creeks and washaways can be really dangerous. We left the Rocks area early and just north of Elli creek I misjudged a set of wash aways. We were very lucky not to roll jumping six times. Our mate in front said he could see our transfer case in his review mirror. The eas was fine, but it tripped the fuelpump crash switch - a big wake up call!

[davidsonsm]

Keithy. I'm gonna keep your post alive by posting some pictures of the lift kit I've made using your own (and pbrown's) basic design.

You'll note differences. Mainly due to availability of materials, my capabilities and keeping cost down.
Once again. Thanks to everybody who's helped and provide input of this topic. Couldn't have done it without you. But of course a special thank you to Keith and Peter.

Happy to answer any questions.

The rear pair upside down in photo:



https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/720.jpg

[davidsonsm]

More of the rear pair:https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/714.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/715.jpg

And the fronts:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/716.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/717.jpg

The obligatory terrafirma' s:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/718.jpg

And the height sensor mods:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/10/719.jpg

The bump stops have already been modified ie extended by 20mm.

[davidsonsm]

Now to find some time to fit it all. I've got some braided st stl brake hoses to go on as well. Looking forward to the improved brake pedal feel.

[Keithy P38]

Good work mate! It'll go together like a dream hopefully!

When you install everything, keep your eye on the rear sensor arms as the diff approaches full compression. I am going to re-modify my rear sensor arms to get around this. I currently have a 55mm solid rubber block on the diff under the bump stops (brand new bump stops mind you) and the sensor arm still hits the chassis.

I've removed my spacers for the time being (to make the Rangie driveable again) until I've worked out where I'm going to drill my holes to bolt the spacers down.

Be sure to let us know how it works out for you!

Once our kits are finished and tested ill start a new thread where we can basically sum up what is involved in making the kit, the bad and good things learnt along the way, and some pics. Mine will be about a month away before ill have it all finished.

Cheers
Keithy

[davidsonsm]

Keith. In the pictures of my rear spacers, you should see that the lower flange D boss has a hole drilled through it (6.5mm). I've bought some 6mm linch pins to secure the lower spacer plate to the axle/diff plate. This is my favoured approach at the moment, given your experiences with the spacers turning over. I'll see how that goes. I can always revert back to bolting them down if needed.

The air spring's D boss will attach to the top plate using the standard 3mm spring clips. Hence the cut out in the 100mm dia pipe I've used between the plates.


For the front lower plate (of the spacer) securement, I'll be using some 6mm st stl screwed rod. I've drilled the rods axially at 1/8" dia and inserted and glued the cut off front 3mm pins. This allows me to pick up the same original screws on the diff. The space to insert anything between the diff and the air spring plate looks rather restrictive. I may have to drill a hole to enlarge the opening in order to insert the 6mm screwed rod pin thingy I've made.

I'll probably use original rear spring in the top front position ie through the air spring D bosses.

Hope that makes sense.

[davidsonsm]

I gather the original HardRange lift kits didn't suffer with the issue of the rear sensor fouling on the body/chassis, because the lift spacer was wide enough to include the OEM bump stop - and therefore downward articulation was restricted.

I guess that goes back to the whole point of the lift kit designed in the manner of this post. Greater articulation. Can it be achieved - we shall see.

[mtb_gary]

I was having a look at the sensor arms on the car and noticed that the fuel hose with 6mm sprinkler plastic pipe that I have been using for the past 3 or so years was starting to get a bit of a permanent bend on the 2 rears. Not wanting to mess around with creating threads or gluing I have hopefully come up with a viable simple alternative.

The components comprise of: 6mm brake line from Enzed hoses (it has an ID of 6.1 mm) and fits snugly over the sensor arm. A tent peg of approximately 6mm diameter creates the internal spacer and then finally 5mm stainless steel wire rope grips from Bunnings fit perfectly over the 6 mm brake line.

67270
4 lengths of brake line tube ready for installation
67269
End of tube
67271
Wire rope grips
67272
Installed (rear sensor)

To install I have cut the desired lengths of brake line then on each end cut down the tube approx 10mm. This is to allow the clamps to tighten up on the sensor arms. The spacer is put inside the tube and then simply push the sensor arms in until they meet the spacer. Clamp up the tube using the wire rope grips. So far so good, now to find the time to try it out, and probably recalibrate the ride heights slightly.

Apologies for the crappy photos, Blackberries are not the ideal camera :(

Gary

[Keithy P38]

Just bumping this back to the top. This weekend should be 'hopefully' the finished product.

I still plan on playing around with the height sensors - not because there is an issue, rather to try and find a way to allow those running a standard to 265/75 (or 32" in old money) tyre to lift their P38 without needing to modify bump stops and really make the most of the long travel shocks.

I believe it can be done. I am trying to do it all without breaking the bank so it is taking some long thinking sessions and a tiny bit of hope before each step, plus I've been overseas for a bit, and my P38 is on loan to a hopeful new P38 owner so I've not had much time to play the last month!

Cheers
Keithy

[davidsonsm]

Thought you'd given up on it! ;) fully understand. We all have day jobs. Watching with interest. My kit is still sitting there winking at me.

[Pete38]

I'm still going as well... Just very slowly. Bull bar, winch, dual battery.... new starter motor, have all over taken.

But as of last Friday I finally got the spacers all together. So should be the next few weeks seeing its all sitting there waiting for me.

Edit: Yep still no plan for a bump stop change here too.

[davidsonsm]

Kinda thinking allowed here, but is there any chance of the Arnott's being damaged in full compression, by their own feet making contact with the top of the bag. Assuming the 2" lift spacers have been fitted and the original bump stops remain?

I guess we're looking to ensure the bump stops to hit home before the shockers and before the bags - I recall this may already have been discussed earlier - so forgiven me if I'm repeating a topic. Just want to check.

But if we assume the car is on its bump stops, is there enough slack/sag in the airbags to avoid them destroying themselves?

[Pete38]

I don't think it's a concern. I'm pretty sure there is heaps of space between the foot and the Mount at the top of the bag. And I believe there are others overseas that didn't extend the bump stops. I think the hardrange ones were extended to reduce the chances of the shocks bottoming out, but I don't think the terrafirma ones were available then, which can be run with standard bump stops. If you look when the car is on the bump stops at the moment there appears to be plenty of room... I think. Obviously the rubber will start to try and fold over the foot a little with the spacers so I'll be sure to make sure there are no sharp edges. I have no plans for extended bump stops, but my spacers are only 30mm at the centre.

But valid point still which I don't think has been asked.

[Keithy P38]

I thought of that, cheers for reminding me as I meant to post about it!

The fronts are not an issue, the top mount for the spring is a tower-like shape and hollow inside - it will not touch.

The rears are a different story as the top is flat-ish. With that in mind, my Rangie has been on the bump stops more than once with the spacers fitted (and no bump stop mods) without any sounds or signs of damage.

I can't confirm the rears anymore as my height sensor hits the chassis just as the bump stop hits the pad, so I've had to increase the bump stop pad height until I've mucked around more with the sensors.

Cheers
Keithy

[davidsonsm]

Thanks guys. It'll be one of the needed checks I have to perform when I get round to the installation.

I'm currently running the air springs on manual only, as I'm giving the eas a refresh.

I wondered if this could be a reasonable installation sequence, so I can break it up into smaller time slots and see how each mod settles:

1. install spacers. Retain standard length shockers.

2. install longer travel shockers.

3. install modded height sensors.

4. reactivate eas and calibrate height settings.

Hey presto. Should work, shouldn't it?

[davidsonsm]

Peter, the hardrange rear lift spacers that I've seen, have spacers that are much wider, so they effectively restrict travel. The bump stop hits the spacer 2" higher, instead of on the original pad. Thereby defeating the aim of the type of lift you and Keith have devised. If you get my drift.

[mtb_gary]

Thanks guys. It'll be one of the needed checks I have to perform when I get round to the installation.

I'm currently running the air springs on manual only, as I'm giving the eas a refresh.

I wondered if this could be a reasonable installation sequence, so I can break it up into smaller time slots and see how each mod settles:

1. install spacers. Retain standard length shockers.

2. install longer travel shockers.

3. install modded height sensors.

4. reactivate eas and calibrate height settings.

Hey presto. Should work, shouldn't it?

You will have limited wheel travel until the new shocks are in

Gary

[Keithy P38]

I wouldn't do any 4wding until its all complete. You'll end up snapping a height sensor with the extra travel you'll get!

Other than that it seems a solid plan - after having done it all, and made/making changes as I go, I could recommend your way as being the sensible option.

I did the height sensors first, nothing wrong with that except I can't hit the bump stops due to teething issues, then I did spacers and shocks at the same time as each other.

Either way the vehicle is still driveable, that's the main thing!

Cheers
Keithy

[Keithy P38]

Welding the spacers to the diff tomorrow!

Wish me luck!

[benji]

No going back now!
Nah, it'll be good; infact, itll be great.

Sent from my GT-I9305T using AULRO mobile app

[Hammer H]

Hi Keithy

any particular reason welding instead of bolting?

Paul

[Keithy P38]

There is not a great deal of room on the diff to bolt them down. I'd be comfortable with four bolts but I feel that I'd be compromising the spacers and diff pad by drilling holes in them.

Welds are much stronger, and I can grind them off if ever I feel the need to remove them.

Cheers
Keithy

[mtb_gary]

There is not a great deal of room on the diff to bolt them down. I'd be comfortable with four bolts but I feel that I'd be compromising the spacers and diff pad by drilling holes in them.

Welds are much stronger, and I can grind them off if ever I feel the need to remove them.

Cheers
Keithy

Good luck, if it was me welding it would look like ****. A couple of pics would be good once done to help visualise what you've done.

Gary

[Keithy P38]

No worries. I'm no expert boilermaker, I have welded in the past and I rekon I could make something that'll do the job! If my first weld looks a bit dodgy ill get out the angle grinder and start again! Failing that, my bro is available tomorrow and he would likely produce art compared to my welds, so that's plan b!

Cheers
Keithy

[Keithy P38]

Another deviation from the plan, my fault! I need to shorten the spacer pins to the exact length required to hold the spacers down before I weld anything. I will use them as well as the welds (sort of like plan b while using plan a).

Wish I had more gear in the garage... Hopefully ill be welding tomorrow.

Cheers
Keithy

[Keithy P38]

Thanks to Brian (Goanna_shire) for bailing me out! The spacer pins are now the right length. Tomorrow should spell the end of my playing around under the Rangie, and more driving and generally enjoying the P38-ness that we have all come to love.

Cheers
Keithy

[Pete38]

Where can I get myself one one of these Brians ha ha? Getting closer Keith... unlike me who's progress has gone stagnant.

Edit: I have put in a dual battery system and aftermarket sub though so still being tinkering with the Rangie though