Will be Retro

[blackrangie]

Looking like the defender will be retro [emoji6] big tyres confirmed (32's standard) confirmed and hot weather testing in UAE.
New Land Rover Defender retains 32-inch tyres, testing moves to UAE | PerformanceDrive (https://performancedrive.com.au/new-land-rover-defender-retains-32-inch-tyres-testing-moves-to-uae-0211/)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190802/c025f06d5a0042c21a627138e5196869.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190802/6cffed34e84db14da2d81ae0027046a7.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190802/3f1834ba8c4ba16fdb09093429182edd.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190802/ebff4e484517b10ff97dca0a6b4326fc.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190802/ba042b94a5b960d1e8e3df09804cbffe.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190802/3848874a48209797e6826aaf32e2f232.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190802/a9320fa8935948001429f1686ecdd1bb.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190802/4730728a616b99c26dcb84033f64080f.jpg

[blackrangie]

YouTube (https://youtu.be/_9l0DbNgl2g)

[goingbush]

Please don't post any more pictures of this thing in camo drag,
Im so sick of seeing these, Im glad the other thread got closed.
The lead up to the release of this is embarrassing and turning me away from the brand.

Now I actually don't mind when people call my '73 Series 3 Lightweight a Jeep.

[Vern]

As they say, just scroll on by and don't look.

[blackrangie]

You choose what you see on forums mate, if pics of the new defender in camo are not your thing, unsubscribe from all New Defender threads until Sept 10th as there will be more, many more no doubt.

[blackrangie]

Here's some of my fav screenshots from the vid.

Also during the vid, it takes off in the sand looks almost identical to a rear locker. All wheels traction at same time (Picture 3)

Picture 2 front passenger (AU) wheel gets airborne. More of rear seat seen in pic 9, rear speaker in roof? Rear light near grab handle? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190802/fc5d6dc5d1146e5d3166ef9a7cd6a1e8.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190802/7946c911524d5945b3887a04d48d6428.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190802/dcf3c0bfab82b2e0ac39ed13959b192b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190802/5903d35c663589f047a213ede211438f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190802/a4786c9bde9e0f5088d003abc9e1c6a4.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190802/89d9b1a18c0e85982f15f54a01967b86.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190802/0b46b355d4d8cb36eb37e35411b7032c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190802/960fcf7ab784877bae07f9ba7649bf16.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190802/922a21df9046e35d94aef600343d0b9d.jpg

[Vern]

This thread is just your attempt to get around the mods shutting your old thread down.So it's ok to have multiple threads about all things land rover and not, but we can't have more than one thread about the new proposed defender??

[incisor]

the other lot got locked because of the negative comments and playing the man

anymore posts along those sort of lines will see people getting holiday reward points

you have been repeatedly warned

there will be NO more warnings...

[blackrangie]

Heres the Media Releasehttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190802/c75d1a698deefd64d65bd7199e8a4f70.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190802/97156af02093f7976cdf7b35d8b3a1f8.jpg

[blackrangie]

Some more good quality shots from the media release site

RED CROSS EXPERTS PUSH NEW LAND ROVER DEFENDER PROTOTYPE TO THE LIMIT IN DESERT TESTING TO CELEBRATE RENEWAL OF 65-YEAR PARTNERSHIP | Land Rover (https://media.landrover.com/news/2019/08/red-cross-experts-push-new-land-rover-defender-prototype-limit-desert-testing)https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190802/950362396dd83ba9080a32ecb772c204.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190802/2f67b78b244024ea71855403d20f839f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190802/da805646504c6233d03945211265eb5e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190802/fbbd1eaff69b4c8e3e938a18de513e74.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190802/4b47d6440457776f14cfbea27a36e17c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190802/ac8c9a59e23b33f23573ffcf2753b678.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190802/ef926096fb5a59349b376d96649f21fe.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190802/7aad8a4f5113d101471bb8f7f6b86dc7.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190802/8c0588231b64134f2cfd5766f7b92f1c.jpg

[PhilipA]

The most amazing thing to me is seeing the Red Cross and red crescent on the same uniform.

Wow Islam has come along if that is allowed throughout the Middle East.

When I lived in Saudi they tried to make Swiss air take the crosses off their tails.

regards PhilipA

[goingbush]

You choose what you see on forums mate, if pics of the new defender in camo are not your thing, unsubscribe from all New Defender threads until Sept 10th as there will be more, many more no doubt.

Please explain how you unsubscribe from a thread, not that i'm subscribed inn the first place. I'd love to not see these things at all. Calling a thread "Will be Retro" of course it sucks me in , then I see those horrible pictures , once seen can't be unseen.

[blackrangie]

Please explain how you unsubscribe from a thread, not that i'm subscribed inn the first place. I'd love to not see these things at all. Calling a thread "Will be Retro" of course it sucks me in , then I see those horrible pictures , once seen can't be unseen.Haha..thread title was meant to be a bit funny to lighten the mood, I think it will be in some ways retro, and other ways it most certainly won't be. Don't worry GB only a little over a month left with the camo. [emoji1417]

[SBD4]

Please explain how you unsubscribe from a thread, not that i'm subscribed inn the first place. I'd love to not see these things at all. Calling a thread "Will be Retro" of course it sucks me in , then I see those horrible pictures , once seen can't be unseen.
Perhaps the simplest thing you can do is put particular users on your ignore list... then you will not see their posts. Go to their profile and click "add to ignore list".

[irondoc]

Perhaps the simplest thing you can do is put particular users on your ignore list... then you will not see their posts. Go to their profile and click "add to ignore list".

THAT IS GOLD SBD4! I didn't know you could do that. Finally, a whole bunch of posts gone from the thread...

[blackrangie]

Looking back through these pics, guards look to have fair bit of space outwards for wider and taller tyres without flares.

Also big brakes on 20s look to have enough space for 1 inch reduction of wheels on each side, so possible 18s with bigger brakes. Then comparing with older moab 4cyl diesel front brakes, it seems to look like maybe 17s could fit?

Or maybe I'm being optimistic and its 19 and 18.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190802/8e6543054250694d41bd29754dc3027e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190802/a79b6ba2f4314b9c95a43b982ed8a403.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190802/48034efd04e7561fcb1c088c5c0d6619.jpg

[spudfan]

I hear that the optional extras will include a radio/cassette player to ease some of us who drive older Defenders into the new model.....

[DiscoClax]

I hear that the optional extras will include a radio/cassette player to ease some of us who drive older Defenders into the new model.....

I heard that was going to be part of the Hipster Pack...

[rijidij]

I hear that the optional extras will include a radio/cassette player to ease some of us who drive older Defenders into the new model.....

There was actually a report on TV last night that cassette tapes are making a comeback........as to why, who knows

[Vern]

Does this radio/cassette have AM AND FM?

[plusnq]

None of that new fangled stuff. Bring back the 8 track and a AM radio. It’s all a real man needs [bigsmile][bigsmile][bigsmile]

[donh54]

As long as they're not going to ditch AM for Digital radio! 5 k out of town and you can't get a signal.
Come to think of it, that'd be a great way to figure out whether it's old school, or yuppy-centric.

[blackrangie]

As long as they're not going to ditch AM for Digital radio! 5 k out of town and you can't get a signal.
Come to think of it, that'd be a great way to figure out whether it's old school, or yuppy-centric.That's were spotify comes in on android auto or apple carplay, no dropouts. [emoji6]

[DiscoMick]

That's were spotify comes in on android auto or apple carplay, no dropouts. [emoji6]Funny you should mention Spotify.I priced a new head unit with Spotify this very morning. Hip, I am. [emoji6]

[ramblingboy42]

Please don't post any more pictures of this thing in camo drag,
Im so sick of seeing these, Im glad the other thread got closed.
The lead up to the release of this is embarrassing and turning me away from the brand.

Now I actually don't mind when people call my '73 Series 3 Lightweight a Jeep.

I'm with you GB, after something like two years of this conjecture, (it may help if others read what conjecture means) , another month of camo picture flooding will be just enough to overfill the bucket.

[ramblingboy42]

None of that new fangled stuff. Bring back the 8 track and a AM radio. It’s all a real man needs [bigsmile][bigsmile][bigsmile]

there are some very good 'new fangled' systems out there now. Niel Young's PONO is one but it doesnt appear to have been publicly accepted...possibly because he wouldn't let any of the majors such as Sony get near it.

[blackrangie]

Funny you should mention Spotify.I priced a new head unit with Spotify this very morning. Hip, I am. [emoji6]My advice get something with android auto/apple car play, got that in the Rangie, its a game changer [emoji7] completely modernizes the infotainment in just about any older car. Basically leave the phone in the centre console on charge. Use your voice or the screen of head unit to control.

Im running Android Auto and it just got better.

Android Auto Gets First Major Upgrade in Five Years - Thurrott.com (https://www.thurrott.com/mobile/android/211410/android-auto-gets-first-major-upgrade-in-five-years)

I believe all JLR cars can be had with Apple Car Play & Android Auto so guessing the new defender will be no different.

[goingbush]

Don't like any of this newfangled infotainment stuff, GPS with topo maps is all I need, .... if I get lost I can retrace my route, thats actually come in handy once. Never played music whilst driving , never will, I like to keep one ear open for noises under or outside the vehicle.

However this Retro head unit for $30 on eBay caught my attention . Might get one for the '49 Dodge . oops no AM .

Bluetooth Retro Car Radio MP3 Player Stereo USB AUX Classic Car Stereo Audio AU | eBay (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Bluetooth-Retro-Car-Radio-MP3-Player-Stereo-USB-AUX-Classic-Car-Stereo-Audio-AU/312345321923)

[DiscoMick]

I have a old iPod loaded with about 60 gigs of music I plug in because it doesn't have Bluetooth. The battery is dying but it doesn't matter because it runs off the vehicle power. Just need a USB jack. But it would be nice to have Spotify. Haven't used Android Auto so that's interesting.

[blackrangie]

http://www.fourwheeler.com/news/red-cross-tests-2020-land-rover-defender/

Looks like we might get some special Commercial Red Cross Defenders in OZ
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190804/5113f4b31f4d7812ead21ef9395381eb.jpg

[goingbush]

What the Hell !! are we a 3rd world country already ? (oh wait ,..... I read that thread already)
the only presence Red Cross has in Australia is a few Op Shops . $100,000 LandRovers parked outside emblazoned in Red Cross livery is going to look great , hey !

[scarry]

http://www.fourwheeler.com/news/red-cross-tests-2020-land-rover-defender/

Looks like we might get some special Commercial Red Cross Defenders in OZ
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190804/5113f4b31f4d7812ead21ef9395381eb.jpg

There is a typo,they must mean Austria..[biggrin]

[travelrover]

Or more likely Africa?

[blackrangie]

What the Hell !! are we a 3rd world country already ? (oh wait ,..... I read that thread already)
the only presence Red Cross has in Australia is a few Op Shops . $100,000 LandRovers parked outside emblazoned in Red Cross livery is going to look great , hey !I'm guessing your not a farmer then GB.

Red cross is disaster and emergency relief as well as many other things.


Help Aussie Farmers appeal update | Australian Red Cross (https://www.redcross.org.au/news-and-media/news/help-aussie-farmers-update?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=&utm_type=ARC_CTA&utm_campaign=)


If Landrover are going to offer cheap or free landrovers to red cross im sure they are not guna say no.

YouTube (https://youtu.be/H91yadX0CSg)

[Zcoota]

Funny you should mention Spotify.I priced a new head unit with Spotify this very morning. Hip, I am. [emoji6] The head unit in my County is the most technologically advanced thing on the car [bigrolf]

[Arapiles]

What the Hell !! are we a 3rd world country already ? (oh wait ,..... I read that thread already)
the only presence Red Cross has in Australia is a few Op Shops

Well ... and the Blood Banks ... and the assistance to migrants ... and the flood relief .... and the drought relief ... and the assistance to farmers .....

[rar110]

Airplay and android equivalent is a game changer. Not having it would pretty much stop me buying a new car.

[goingbush]

Well ... and the Blood Banks ... and the assistance to migrants ... and the flood relief .... and the drought relief ... and the assistance to farmers .....


Maybe they should sell their new LandRovers and donate the funds to the farmers then !!

[spudfan]

On another note, Where is the spare wheel?
And as we all know every Real Land Rover since the time of Alexander the Great has had a PTO facility. Will this one have a PTO facility? Can't wait to get to the show room and get this in as my first question to the salesman

[spudfan]

Don't like any of this newfangled infotainment stuff, GPS with topo maps is all I need, .... if I get lost I can retrace my route, thats actually come in handy once. Never played music whilst driving , never will, I like to keep one ear open for noises under or outside the vehicle.

However this Retro head unit for $30 on eBay caught my attention . Might get one for the '49 Dodge . oops no AM .

Bluetooth Retro Car Radio MP3 Player Stereo USB AUX Classic Car Stereo Audio AU | eBay (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Bluetooth-Retro-Car-Radio-MP3-Player-Stereo-USB-AUX-Classic-Car-Stereo-Audio-AU/312345321923)
I don't have a GPS but I have a Sat Nag...i.e. the Mrs. She is usually very reliable. If the Sat Nag makes an error I keep on going until I find a convenient place to turn and go back and hopefully hit the correct course.
I never listen to music when I'm driving as I find it distracting. I usually listen to Radio Land Rover 2.286 FM, Radio Land Rover 2495 FM or Radio Land Rover 2402FM, depending on the model that I am driving.

[blackrangie]

On another note, Where is the spare wheel?
And as we all know every Real Land Rover since the time of Alexander the Great has had a PTO facility. Will this one have a PTO facility? Can't wait to get to the show room and get this in as my first question to the salesman

Good point, in UAE not there

But usually, On the rear door

Plenty seen with and without spares on back, even some with spare holder but no spare.

PTO..hmm doubt it..dont know if there would be a genuine need these days.

[spudfan]

On the rear door haha

PTO..hmm doubt it..dont know if there would be a genuine need these days.

Never noticed it with all of that camouflage stuff[bigwhistle]

[blackrangie]

Maybe they should sell their new LandRovers and donate the funds to the farmers then !!Or maybe use the new ones because they are more reliable that older ones to accomplish their missions. [emoji6][emoji57]
Most fleets are leased so as to keep under warranty.

[blackrangie]

Never noticed it with all of that camouflage stuff[bigwhistle]Haha..sorry mate, realized what you were referring too and modded my post whilst you were typing it seems

[spudfan]

Alwell that ends well etc etc
P.S. Do you blokes over there ever go to bed.[biggrin]

[blackrangie]

Alwell that ends well etc etc
P.S. Do you blokes over there ever go to bed.[biggrin]Nah, not when there are prehistoric AM radios and missing spare wheels to talk about [emoji6][emoji42]

[blackrangie]

UAE specific testing infohttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190804/22b081a15588523307cedbfb6ff51644.jpg

[blackrangie]

Another Bosch test vehicle with decent profile tyreshttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190804/b643bf2afb92b62b88b94f219056b153.jpg

[goingbush]

Perhaps the simplest thing you can do is put particular users on your ignore list... then you will not see their posts. Go to their profile and click "add to ignore list".

That worked for a little while, but does not stop the green flashing Notification at top of page when ignoree replies to msg.

[Disco-tastic]

Another Bosch test vehicle with decent profile tyreshttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190804/b643bf2afb92b62b88b94f219056b153.jpgThey look like Td5 wheels...

[Gregz]

Another Bosch test vehicle with decent profile tyreshttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190804/b643bf2afb92b62b88b94f219056b153.jpg
What are those blibby-blob thingos on top? are they next-gen robo-car devices.... may not be compatible with the roof-top box. Also, looks like this one has the optional extra spaces for additional land rover badges [bigwhistle]

[blackrangie]

What are those blibby-blob thingos on top? are they next-gen robo-car devices.... may not be compatible with the roof-top box. Also, looks like this one has the optional extra spaces for additional land rover badges [bigwhistle]They are bosch autonomous testers i believe, the "badges" are sensors that move up and down on little adjusters no doubt to find the sweet spot. No idea what the do though. Heres spyshot of inside [emoji15]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190805/12dee3c46380878f00da3302a4fbebb4.jpg

[blackrangie]

That worked for a little while, but does not stop the green flashing Notification at top of page when ignoree replies to msg.Being a mod/admin probably doesn't help, might have to see everything [emoji6]

[blackrangie]

Jaguar Land Rover's survival bid: five new cars in two years | Autocar (https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/jaguar-land-rovers-survival-bid-five-new-cars-two-years)

Going to be a very busy few years for JLR it seems.

[spudfan]

From Land Rover sales brochure...
"There are somethings that will never need improving. The chassis is one of them. Immensely strong, it is probably the single most important component in Defender's design architecture and contributes to the vehicle's strength, versatility, durability and capability."
Oops... that was from the Puma brochure. Similar claims were stated in the brochures for the Td5 and the tdi and the 90-110 models. Someone forgot to tell Gerry McGovern.[biggrin]

[rar110]

That sounds like McGovern speak.

[blackrangie]

From Land Rover sales brochure...
"There are somethings that will never need improving. The chassis is one of them. Immensely strong, it is probably the single most important component in Defender's design architecture and contributes to the vehicle's strength, versatility, durability and capability."
Oops... that was from the Puma brochure. Similar claims were stated in the brochures for the Td5 and the tdi and the 90-110 models. Someone forgot to tell Gerry McGovern.[biggrin]Haha, I think that's been posted before, rings a bell.The world is changing in ways and at a speed that us mere humans cannot predict, manufacturers must adapt or die.

[DiscoMick]

I've heard similar comments made about the D 3/4 chassis.

[cripesamighty]

I’d believe it about the D3/4 though. One of the few cars I know that can get hung up cross axled, without any chassis/body twisting, allowing all the doors to open and close easily.

[blackrangie]

Speaking of the D4, Lucky8 are seriously modding theirs, upgraded axles, cvs, ford v8? Full under body armour.

YouTube (https://youtu.be/Idv76I29jJg)

Can't wait to see what the come up with for the defender. They are on record as being fully committed to it.

[spudfan]

Haha, I think that's been posted before, rings a bell.The world is changing in ways and at a speed that us mere humans cannot predict, manufacturers must adapt or die.
Was in a shop the other day and they had "a globe of the world". It was round!!!Gosh, every day is a learning experience for me.[bigwhistle]

[DiscoMick]

Did you notice how much bigger Australia is on a globe than on a flat map? And Canada is just enormous!

[blackrangie]

Few interesting comments on Landrovers Youtube channelhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190807/a7db56e687485329678ea05311afb760.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190807/3e7791151e126c3443af1aacb2445e8d.jpg

[blackrangie]

There's a fair few scoops in here from Topgear, and quoted JLR comments, also pics I believe have not been seen before.

Ten things we learned about the new Land Rover Defender | Top Gear (https://www.topgear.com/car-news/first-look/ten-things-we-learned-about-new-land-rover-defender#1)
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190807/ca6105385ffca9891813099250258c08.jpg

[djambalawa]

There's a fair few scoops in here from Topgear, and quoted JLR comments, also pics I believe have not been seen before.

Ten things we learned about the new Land Rover Defender | Top Gear (https://www.topgear.com/car-news/first-look/ten-things-we-learned-about-new-land-rover-defender#1)


hey i see in point two they say "both coil and air sprung" - does this mean there's a non air suspension option?

Edit - doh read point 3.. air is optional.. cool.. did we already know that?

[ozscott]

Yes mate. Quite a few test mules had coils. In the Top Gear article LR say there is not much in it in ability between tbe 2 but that cannot be correct when the going gets tough. Hi speed dirt sure.

Cheers

[blackrangie]

Im guessing an embargo was lifted on this and everyone invited is now releasing articles. [emoji41]

First ride: 2020 Land Rover Defender prototype | Autocar (https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/first-ride-2020-land-rover-defender-prototype)

“Compared with the hardware you’ll find on a Range Rover or Range Rover Sport,” Deeks explains, “there are reinforced suspension subframes, as well as new stronger suspension arms, ball joints and bushes. We’ve got bigger wheel arches, more suspension travel, more wheel articulation and more ground clearance than on any other Land Rover. This car was designed to exceed the usual Land Rover capability targets that our other models are engineered up to. And it has been engineered for better durability and reliability than any car that Land Rover has ever made.”

Wheels will vary from 18in to 22in, with both all-terrain and mud-terrain tyres on the options list and bespoke ‘terrain response’ traction control software tuned to make the most of the extra off-road ability those tyres offer.

“The suspension hardware is related to the stuff on those other cars, but it’s very differently applied and tuned,” Deeks goes on. “Steel coils are standard fit, air suspension is optional. But we’ve got special controls monitoring the adaptive dampers, for example, to ensure they don’t overheat when working really hard. If you have the air suspension, we reckon the car is better able to keep its wheels on the ground and its body clear of obstacles than it would on rigid axles anyway.”

[djambalawa]

“The suspension hardware is related to the stuff on those other cars, but it’s very differently applied and tuned,” Deeks goes on. “Steel coils are standard fit, air suspension is optional. But we’ve got special controls monitoring the adaptive dampers, for example, to ensure they don’t overheat when working really hard. If you have the air suspension, we reckon the car is better able to keep its wheels on the ground and its body clear of obstacles than it would on rigid axles anyway.”

18" rims.. that's ok - 17" would've been nice but I can live with 18" :)

I like the idea of no air suspension to go wrong.. but yeah I also like the idea of the car pushing a wheel down without solid axles to keep its grip on Australia.. hmmm

[ozscott]

[emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787] The fact that the LR guy driving the new one reckons the old one was strong off-road because it couldn't be driven fast off road like the new one with stir a few feathers [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]

[blackrangie]

[emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787] The fact that the LR guy driving the new one reckons the old one was strong off-road because it couldn't be driven fast off road like the new one with stir a few feathers [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]I know if i drive a standard RRC faster than a certain speed stuff starts to break, shock mounts, shocks, bumpstops, springs, links etc, so the speed discussion imo has merit.

A huge amount of modification and money must be spent to drive a defender or any classic solid axle LR fast offroad without breaking stuff and throwing you out the window.

Fair point imo

YouTube (https://youtu.be/fToRej14lCQ)

[blackrangie]

LRO article just dropped, there is a seperate thread on it.

Cracker of an article, must read

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190807/ba56515498a38afa5b0205380416a3b0.jpg

[blackrangie]

What are peoples thoughts on this, first ive heard of this.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190807/b1cc8287f30ec02eb54cd40950272da1.jpg

[scarry]

I’d believe it about the D3/4 though. One of the few cars I know that can get hung up cross axled, without any chassis/body twisting, allowing all the doors to open and close easily.

And still have forward motion,not like a lot of other pretenders....[biggrin]

[ozscott]

I have crossed up the D2 many times with a wheel 2 feet in the air and open and close the doors like a bought one...what LR's have issues with that?

Cheers

[scarry]

The coiler model will no doubt be the poverty pack that doesn't sell well,just like D3/4/5.

And after reading the above,i can't see this vehicle costing less than $85-$95K,at a minimum,for a middle of the range model with EAS,it all points to an expensive vehicle.

In fact,if you want the big engine,it will more than likely be over $100K.

They sort of hint that low range will be an option as well,without it,it can't be the most capable vehicle they have ever made.

[ozscott]

What are peoples thoughts on this, first ive heard of this.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190807/b1cc8287f30ec02eb54cd40950272da1.jpgNot sure about terminology but stronger the better. So a win. Also gives a clear idea of what a D5 is and ISNT.

Cheers

[scarry]

Not sure about terminology but stronger the better. So a win. Also gives a clear idea of what a D5 is and ISNT.

Cheers

And all their other models.

Umm,remember, they (LR) said they were bench marking this thing on the LC.....[biggrin][bighmmm]

[blackrangie]

And all their other models.

Umm,remember, they (LR) said they were bench marking this thing on the LC.....[biggrin][bighmmm]Don't believe they said that, it was reporters speculation from memory [emoji6]. Good to know they say its better than the competition though, that's on record [emoji1417]

[scarry]

Don't believe they said that, it was reporters speculation from memory [emoji6]. Good to know they say its better than the competition though, that's on record [emoji1417]

Definitely said by a representative from LR,but i haven't got time to go through 4507 posts and look for the link......[bighmmm]

Anyway,can't wait for it to appear at a dealer near here.[thumbsupbig]

[blackrangie]

Definitely said by a representative from LR,but i haven't got time to go through 4507 posts and look for the link......[bighmmm]

Anyway,can't wait for it to appear at a dealer near here.[thumbsupbig]I remember the discussion, it was an au article and from memory and landcruiser was speculation, not part of the direct quote, happy to be proven wrong. Do i believe LC was one of the cars used to benchmark above [emoji57], more than likely.

https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/spy-pics-new-land-rover-defender-laps-the-ring-117566/

[blackrangie]

Another good article

New Land Rover Defender ride review | Auto Express (https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/land-rover/defender/107599/new-land-rover-defender-ride-review)https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190807/a8a9cdfd3cb647d4d616af788068db17.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190807/fb09ccdbf095264467aa3e8aadda883f.jpg

[ramblingboy42]

Was in a shop the other day and they had "a globe of the world". It was round!!!Gosh, every day is a learning experience for me.[bigwhistle]

nahhhhh Spudfan.....you been conned again , the earth is flat.....its always flat everywhere I drive , thousands of km at a time and just few hills here and there.

what goes round and round are those bloody photos of camoflaged vehicles on this thread.

[ramblingboy42]

why are some still barking about 18" wheels?

ffs we've had them since the d2a, isnt 20 yrs long enough to get used to something?

every suv on the market has , as far as I know 18" wheels available , most are unneccessarily larger

[SBD4]

why are some still barking about 18" wheels?

ffs we've had them since the d2a, isnt 20 yrs long enough to get used to something?

every suv on the market has , as far as I know 18" wheels available , most are unneccessarily larger
Because for years now LR have been making theirs cars so that the smallest rim you can fit is a 19" rim. That's sort of OK(aside from tyre choice) on the L462/L494/L405 because they have 31" tyre but, on the D4 it was a disaster with its 30" tyres. Now the new defender has 32" tyres as standard, an 18" rim makes for a good sidewall and if 33" or 34" were fitted then all the better.

People are excited about it because it shows that LR have finally woken up to themselves and realised what they were previously doing with tyre/rim/brake packages was creating an achilles heel for their products which effectively neutered the brilliant tech they had created.

[ChookD2]

Just looking at tyre sizes and if this information is correct that there are options of 18, 20 and 22 with a 32" diameter, that doesn't seem too bad to me. If they are going to stick with the 255 width that we have seen (255/60/20) then the options should be as follows:

255/70/18 - 32.1"
255/60/20 - 32"
255/50/22 - 32" This size didn't come up as available, the nearest to 32" that showed was 285/45/22 at 32.1"

Not sure how many will go for the 22" wheel but from my research the 18" will give you a side profile of 7" (including bead).

[incisor]

seen this article ?

First ride: 2020 Land Rover Defender prototype | Autocar (https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/first-ride-2020-land-rover-defender-prototype?fbclid=IwAR3tp3OdwvmwbyrzUXaC6ZXNPadWf3q vbj-EyN7R9sgD5v3k9W-ClF8Db1E)

[blackrangie]

seen this article ?

First ride: 2020 Land Rover Defender prototype | Autocar (https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/first-ride-2020-land-rover-defender-prototype?fbclid=IwAR3tp3OdwvmwbyrzUXaC6ZXNPadWf3q vbj-EyN7R9sgD5v3k9W-ClF8Db1E)Posted above, but its a good one, looks like they invited lots of auto press and today was the release date, the LRO mag article is my pick of the bunch, but all seem to have something to add.

LRO article talks about:

Permanent All wheel drive
3 diff locks
D7u based.
Standard low range
18-22s
All terrains standard
Wading depth more than d5's 900mm
Coil & air options
Diff ratios different to D5
Paddle shifters optional
No manual
Trademark Alpine windows
110 more comfortable, 90 better offroad due to ramp over.
Tested to a level between other fullsize LR's and mil spec.
Stronger welded and braced subframes, balljoints, susp arms longer and stiffer.
Structural undertrays stiffer.
Large objective gains both on and offroad at this stage, without losing core defender DNA.
Adaptive dampners

[tc_s1]

As expected, unfortunately, not a true inheritor of the line, nor off'spring' other than in name (and maybe b/c it does actually come standard with springs). [emoji23] Regardless, I look forward to the unveiling and learnings to come thereafter.

[spudfan]

From the article "we tear down the car, see where the weaknesses are and redesign or respecify as necessary.”
Does this mean there is light at the end of the tunnel and that we will all be able to do a strip down (of the car[bigwhistle]) in the back yard? "Yeah, while we watch the pigs fly" I hear someone say.
The lack of a manual gearbox cuts my interest in it completely.

[ozscott]

As expected, unfortunately, not a true inheritor of the line, nor off'spring' other than in name (and maybe b/c it does actually come standard with springs). [emoji23] Regardless, I look forward to the unveiling and learnings to come thereafter.I know that this is all just opinion. Mine is that to keep ahead of the game they needed to ditch live axles and go IRS IFS and make it work well. Seems they have likely done so. I love live axles off road but I'm excited. This vehicle will stand the test of time especially as we all inevitably go full electric in only 5 years o4 so.away with the introduction of fast charging and much longer lasting lithium and other batteries (After Chilli, good for Aus).
Cheers

[blackrangie]

As expected, unfortunately, not a true inheritor of the line, nor off'spring' other than in name (and maybe b/c it does actually come standard with springs). [emoji23] Regardless, I look forward to the unveiling and learnings to come thereafter.Interesting, there is much in these latest articles that seem to show it will be in many ways tougher and more durable than the current defender, not sure how that makes it a false defender, isnt it an improvement? Is the current Landcruiser 200 or nissan patrol a genuine successor of the line or heritage?

Imo Landrover and any other manufacturer have every right to call anything anything and IF Landrover have made the new defender tougher, more durable, more reliable and still recognisable as a "defender" in my book they nailed it and its a true successor to the defender lineage.

80kph durability is extremely important in outback Australia and many other parts of the world, so im pretty excited about these latest articles focusing on fast dirt road reliability.

Hopefully we get some vids of the testing at some stage.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190807/ae1c6c64ff50a66236cdc5166b9b70b0.jpg

[blackrangie]

From another US forum, any guesses which companies?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190807/6dfd4bf45d227dc06a16f0cea398f0f8.jpg

[Baron ZuZu]

Removing the wrapping, I hope it doesn't look like that! Too similar to the old Discovery and a ford transit van

[loanrangie]

Removing the wrapping, I hope it doesn't look like that! Too similar to the old Discovery and a ford transit van

The Invictus and Tusk versions give a pretty true indication of the shape.

[scarry]

Removing the wrapping, I hope it doesn't look like that! Too similar to the old Discovery and a ford transit van
Looks are an individual thing,but I recon it looks great,and will be even better once the padding is removed.

Being boxy is way more practical and great for packing in gear,which is what this model is all about.

It also needs to stand out from all the other vehicles that LR produce,the last thing they need is another rebadged RR,RRS,or D5.

And also its great they haven't produced a rounded thing like most of the other vehicles on the road.

[blackrangie]

The Invictus and Tusk versions give a pretty true indication of the shape.And goodwood

[ChookD2]

For those who don't like or don't want to like this new Defender maybe one of these will be more your style.
Ineos confirms BMW engines for 2021 Projekt Grenadier 4x4 | Autocar (https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/ineos-confirms-bmw-engines-2021-projekt-grenadier-4x4)

[blackrangie]

For those who don't like or don't want to like this new Defender maybe one of these will be more your style.
Ineos confirms BMW engines for 2021 Projekt Grenadier 4x4 | Autocar (https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/ineos-confirms-bmw-engines-2021-projekt-grenadier-4x4)Yep i think we discussed that in wont be retro a while back. Will be interesting to see what they come up with.

[goingbush]

For those who don't like or don't want to like this new Defender maybe one of these will be more your style.
Ineos confirms BMW engines for 2021 Projekt Grenadier 4x4 | Autocar (https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/ineos-confirms-bmw-engines-2021-projekt-grenadier-4x4)

Dumb move, I unsubscribed from Ineos when I found they were sourcing engines from BMW .

[blackrangie]

BMW is our only hope for a v8 SVX defender so im happy LR partnered with them.
Looks like new jag and RR are already testing the 4.4L V8

New 2021 Range Rover spotted with BMW V8 engine | Autocar (https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-range-rover-2021)

YouTube (https://youtu.be/zJQZR4Ogqw8)

[Old Farang]

And as we all know every Real Land Rover since the time of Alexander the Great has had a PTO facility. Will this one have a PTO facility? Can't wait to get to the show room and get this in as my first question to the salesman

OHS will never allow them! [biggrin]

[spudfan]

OHS?

[Old Farang]

OHS?

Occupational Health & Safety

[spudfan]

:thumbsup:

[DiscoMick]

Or WHS.

[spudfan]

Good grief, more code words "WHS."!!!
Is this how senior members communicate?

[blackrangie]

Good grief, more code words "WHS."!!!
Is this how senior members communicate?Just safety talk Workplace Health & Safety [emoji6]

[blackrangie]

Another good article

New Land Rover Defender ride review | Auto Express (https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/land-rover/defender/107599/new-land-rover-defender-ride-review)https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190807/a8a9cdfd3cb647d4d616af788068db17.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190807/fb09ccdbf095264467aa3e8aadda883f.jpgSome gems from this one after having another look.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190809/e21ba0a9ceeacc63f9b3cff128b58c27.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190809/4134c8ae1e6163f23d7569f3ebd82258.jpg

[DiscoMick]

Good grief, more code words "WHS."!!!
Is this how senior members communicate?Try this one:

T+A=D

[Gregz]

Given what we 'know' or can conjecture about the new Defender, I can't help thinking that once this Defender is released, it will gobble sales from potential D5 buyers. What will be the key model differentiator for people to spend the extra $ to go for D5 , assuming it will be extra?
I was looking around the dealer showroom last month while my car was being serviced, they had a demo D5 there with lots of options , going for $140k. (not that I am in the market at the moment) but for that much I could have bought a new RRS SE with Dynamic and had some change. So, I am thinking at the top end D5 are likely getting gobbled by RRS sales, and soon enough the lower and mid $ will be gobbled by defender.
Will there perhaps be more 'comfort' in a D5 than Defender? maybe, then maybe not.... thoughts?

[blackrangie]

Given what we 'know' or can conjecture about the new Defender, I can't help thinking that once this Defender is released, it will gobble sales from potential D5 buyers. What will be the key model differentiator for people to spend the extra $ to go for D5 , assuming it will be extra?
I was looking around the dealer showroom last month while my car was being serviced, they had a demo D5 there with lots of options , going for $140k. (not that I am in the market at the moment) but for that much I could have bought a new RRS SE with Dynamic and had some change. So, I am thinking at the top end D5 are likely getting gobbled by RRS sales, and soon enough the lower and mid $ will be gobbled by defender.
Will there perhaps be more 'comfort' in a D5 than Defender? maybe, then maybe not.... thoughts?I believe the discovery 5 has been moved purposely closer to the Range Rover.

Interestingly I noticed for the first time in a long time the discovery jumped onto the top 20 sales with the Range Rover Sport recently.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190809/5d797eb59bb8ac684680512e1696660d.jpg

[blackrangie]

Land Rover Defender ute “being considered,” could partner up (https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/land-rover-defender-ute-being-considered-could-partner-up)

Interesting article

However this statement by reporter is pure speculation imo:


But the Defender's new monocoque chassis won’t be a match for tough ladder-frame utes in the segment. Instead, we might see JLR partner with another manufacturer to produce a dual-cab, diesel-powered ute - think Volskwagen and Ford partnering up, or Mazda and Isuzu on their next-gen trucks.

[grey_ghost]

Pure speculation?! [emoji15]

[spudfan]

Try this one:

T+A=D

"Trying", is indeed the word.:Rolling:

[blackrangie]

Pure speculation?! [emoji15]Yes, as in not based on fact [emoji23]

When I read articles I am mainly looking for "quotes". Anything else is speculation unless based on some kind of facts shown or known.

[ramblingboy42]

Go into a Land Rover showroom and ask them if they sell D5s.....

[scarry]

Go into a Land Rover showroom and ask them if they sell D5s.....

No,they say, we have a Discovery over here,but we seem to struggle to sell them to owners that have previously owned Discoveries.[bigsad][biggrin]

Thats exactly what two salesman at different LR dealers have said to me.[bighmmm]

[roverrescue]

It’s hard being right?
Global headwinds / US China / Hard Brexit firming up.
The same MD who 3 months ago said Ute was a sure thing now says :

“We are not going to have that [ute] bodystyle for us unfortunately in Australia,” he told us, adding, “At the moment there is no plan globally, it’s not just an Australian thing.”

I totally agree I doubt JLR will care to rebadge something Mercedes style

There just won’t be a defender ute
Ie it is not a workhorse
It is just another luxo SUV

S

[blackrangie]

No,they say, we have a Discovery over here,but we seem to struggle to sell them to owners that have previously owned Discoveries.[bigsad][biggrin]

Thats exactly what two salesman at different LR dealers have said to me.[bighmmm]Seem to be selling almost as many D5s as RRS now in AU and worldwide last time I checked they sell almost as many D5s as Full size range rovers.

For sure the defender will put a dent in D5 sales. But it will still be the only true 7 adult seater in the range until the 130 drops.

[WhiteD3]

Seem to be selling almost as many D5s as RRS now in AU and worldwide last time I checked they sell almost as many D5s as Full size range rovers.

For sure the defender will put a dent in D5 sales. But it will still be the only true 7 adult seater in the range until the 130 drops.

We have 2 RRS and my D5 at work. All agree the D5 looks dreadful compared to the RRS' but it rides better, has tons more room, is significantly cheaper and with the SD6 performs as good or better than the RRS.

[DiscoMick]

"Trying", is indeed the word.:Rolling:Testosterone + Adrenalin = Dumb.
School joke.
Sorry for the hijack.

[spudfan]

I have never claimed to be the brightest bloke on the block but I seem to be missing something here. This promotional speak of beefed up suspension, banging the test vehicle off kerbs, into potholes and over gaps is the talk of someone who has forgotten the fundamentals of taking a vehicle off road. You treat your vehicle with respect and if you have a rut or pot hole in your way you tackle it in the correct gear and sufficient speed to surmount the obstacle.
I am sure any of you Antipodeans heading off into the outback with a heavily laden vehicle will not be hammering it along. Why would you when your life could depend on keeping your vehicle functional? Fair enough you will have spares and you will be able to repair most things that need remedying along the way. You will do nightly/morning inspections and tackle the difficult bits with some common sense.
To me it appears that the new vehicle is not being targeted at those who take the sensible softly softly approach but the person who gets in at point A, points the vehicle at point B and opens her up letting the onboard electronics do the brain work. Damage will occur and no doubt be expensive to repair. Those beefed up suspension bushes will no doubt need a hydraulic press with tons of force to replace them. If you were taking it on an expedition you would probably have to book it into a maindealer for a checkup before you leave unlike the older vehicles that you can check your self.
I think it is being pushed at the people who want a "real offroader" but do not want to use brain power to drive it or have common sense to ensure it's longevity. They want a vehicle that does not require these nightly or early morning checks if taken on an expedition. Just to get in, point it in the required direction and have no idea of cause and effect.
Having said all of that (apologies for the rant ),as I said earlier I subscribe to the gently does it approach off road but I could see myself breaking the rules, pointing the vehicle in the required direction and hammering it on. This could possibly occur if I was being pursued by a T Rex or a hoard of Zombies. Yes I would hammer it on cursing the aforementioned T Rex or Zombies and feel every bump and it's possible consequences and have my brain translate every bump and bang into a future repair job.
So in all of the advertising leaks and advertising speak someone forgot to say "By the way we have gotten the water ingress problems sorted out" or did I miss that too?

[spudfan]

Testosterone + Adrenalin = Dumb.
School joke.
Sorry for the hijack.
I can just hear the JLR spokesperson now...
"Yes we have targeted the TAD demographic as potential buyers of the new Defender."

[ozscott]

I have never claimed to be the brightest bloke on the block but I seem to be missing something here. This promotional speak of beefed up suspension, banging the test vehicle off kerbs, into potholes and over gaps is the talk of someone who has forgotten the fundamentals of taking a vehicle off road. You treat your vehicle with respect and if you have a rut or pot hole in your way you tackle it in the correct gear and sufficient speed to surmount the obstacle.
I am sure any of you Antipodeans heading off into the outback with a heavily laden vehicle will not be hammering it along. Why would you when your life could depend on keeping your vehicle functional? Fair enough you will have spares and you will be able to repair most things that need remedying along the way. You will do nightly/morning inspections and tackle the difficult bits with some common sense.
To me it appears that the new vehicle is not being targeted at those who take the sensible softly softly approach but the person who gets in at point A, points the vehicle at point B and opens her up letting the onboard electronics do the brain work. Damage will occur and no doubt be expensive to repair. Those beefed up suspension bushes will no doubt need a hydraulic press with tons of force to replace them. If you were taking it on an expedition you would probably have to book it into a maindealer for a checkup before you leave unlike the older vehicles that you can check your self.
I think it is being pushed at the people who want a "real offroader" but do not want to use brain power to drive it or have common sense to ensure it's longevity. They want a vehicle that does not require these nightly or early morning checks if taken on an expedition. Just to get in, point it in the required direction and have no idea of cause and effect.
Having said all of that (apologies for the rant ),as I said earlier I subscribe to the gently does it approach off road but I could see myself breaking the rules, pointing the vehicle in the required direction and hammering it on. This could possibly occur if I was being pursued by a T Rex or a hoard of Zombies. Yes I would hammer it on cursing the aforementioned T Rex or Zombies and feel every bump and it's possible consequences and have my brain translate every bump and bang into a future repair job.
So in all of the advertising leaks and advertising speak someone forgot to say "By the way we have gotten the water ingress problems sorted out" or did I miss that too?Yeah I get what you are saying but I think they are just ensuring that accidental abuse and long years of off-roading won't kill it. Accidents happen and even trying to drive to the conditions doesn't always work. Who has seen EVERY wash out on higher speed corrugated roads and not hit them at least at some speed crashing in and out. It does happen. I'm happy that they are making it very tough. We know that lives axles are tough but if they have made Indy tough more power to them. It does make a difference. It is a matter that appeals to me and I don't drive like a bogan. I still have 18 year old 350,000klm diffs despite towing a 2 tonn boat for over a decade and a lot of offroading in terrain she only just got over (and its a manual).

Cheers

[cjc_td5]

Yes I agree. Additional development is great if only to improve those pesky hydrobushes, that though they give a great ride, do not have a reputation for longevity...
Yeah I get what you are saying but I think they are just ensuring that accidental abuse and long years of off-roading won't kill it. Accidents happen and even trying to drive to the conditions doesn't always work. Who has seen EVERY wash out on higher speed corrugated roads and not hit them at least at some speed crashing in and out. It does happen. I'm happy that they are making it very tough. We know that lives axles are tough but if they have made Indy tough more power to them. It does make a difference. It is a matter that appeals to me and I don't drive like a bogan. I still have 18 year old 350,000klm diffs despite towing a 2 tonn boat for over a decade and a lot of offroading in terrain she only just got over (and its a manual).

Cheers

[RobA]

I have never claimed to be the brightest bloke on the block but I seem to be missing something here. This promotional speak of beefed up suspension, banging the test vehicle off kerbs, into potholes and over gaps is the talk of someone who has forgotten the fundamentals of taking a vehicle off road. You treat your vehicle with respect and if you have a rut or pot hole in your way you tackle it in the correct gear and sufficient speed to surmount the obstacle.
I am sure any of you Antipodeans heading off into the outback with a heavily laden vehicle will not be hammering it along. Why would you when your life could depend on keeping your vehicle functional? Fair enough you will have spares and you will be able to repair most things that need remedying along the way. You will do nightly/morning inspections and tackle the difficult bits with some common sense.
To me it appears that the new vehicle is not being targeted at those who take the sensible softly softly approach but the person who gets in at point A, points the vehicle at point B and opens her up letting the onboard electronics do the brain work. Damage will occur and no doubt be expensive to repair. Those beefed up suspension bushes will no doubt need a hydraulic press with tons of force to replace them. If you were taking it on an expedition you would probably have to book it into a maindealer for a checkup before you leave unlike the older vehicles that you can check your self.
I think it is being pushed at the people who want a "real offroader" but do not want to use brain power to drive it or have common sense to ensure it's longevity. They want a vehicle that does not require these nightly or early morning checks if taken on an expedition. Just to get in, point it in the required direction and have no idea of cause and effect.
Having said all of that (apologies for the rant ),as I said earlier I subscribe to the gently does it approach off road but I could see myself breaking the rules, pointing the vehicle in the required direction and hammering it on. This could possibly occur if I was being pursued by a T Rex or a hoard of Zombies. Yes I would hammer it on cursing the aforementioned T Rex or Zombies and feel every bump and it's possible consequences and have my brain translate every bump and bang into a future repair job.
So in all of the advertising leaks and advertising speak someone forgot to say "By the way we have gotten the water ingress problems sorted out" or did I miss that too?

Mate they were in a test mule. These are the vehicles they drive, pre and post production to ensure everything works. So their duty cycle is exactly what Weeks said. Banging it into potholes and at speed through water to check for in cabin and electrical protection and the like. This is normal pre production stuff that all vehicle manufacturers do in one form or another. That way the product is as market ready as they can make it. Nothing worse than a string of warranty claims and/or recalls in the first year a vehicle is released. As well and having supported several 4WD releases I have seen how some of the media "test" cars. Also there are owners of 4WD who think they can swim/float and fly. Despite being advised otherwise. Refer YouTube on Victorian High Country and OTT on Cape York.

The same sort of repetitive process applies to tyre testing. Vis driving at various speeds over the same test track/potholed road at different pressures to work out when and how the tyre will fail. Been there and done that.

I still have a clear recollection of doing pre-production testing of Pajero in the North Flinders Ranges. We flogged the cars up a creek that I would never drive in a fit with an engineer and test equipment in the back seat. After a run each way we all got out had a quiet barf, got back in the cars and kept at it until something went bang.

This is the sort of stuff you rarely ever see or hear of and of course who knows how many times the car Weeks was driving has been rebuilt and improved over the test period. That's what is about and how it gets done, just not common knowledge to most.

Vehicle testing has nothing to do with most of real life use but.

Rob

[blackrangie]

I have never claimed to be the brightest bloke on the block but I seem to be missing something here. This promotional speak of beefed up suspension, banging the test vehicle off kerbs, into potholes and over gaps is the talk of someone who has forgotten the fundamentals of taking a vehicle off road. You treat your vehicle with respect and if you have a rut or pot hole in your way you tackle it in the correct gear and sufficient speed to surmount the obstacle.
I am sure any of you Antipodeans heading off into the outback with a heavily laden vehicle will not be hammering it along. Why would you when your life could depend on keeping your vehicle functional? Fair enough you will have spares and you will be able to repair most things that need remedying along the way. You will do nightly/morning inspections and tackle the difficult bits with some common sense.
To me it appears that the new vehicle is not being targeted at those who take the sensible softly softly approach but the person who gets in at point A, points the vehicle at point B and opens her up letting the onboard electronics do the brain work. Damage will occur and no doubt be expensive to repair. Those beefed up suspension bushes will no doubt need a hydraulic press with tons of force to replace them. If you were taking it on an expedition you would probably have to book it into a maindealer for a checkup before you leave unlike the older vehicles that you can check your self.
I think it is being pushed at the people who want a "real offroader" but do not want to use brain power to drive it or have common sense to ensure it's longevity. They want a vehicle that does not require these nightly or early morning checks if taken on an expedition. Just to get in, point it in the required direction and have no idea of cause and effect.
Having said all of that (apologies for the rant ),as I said earlier I subscribe to the gently does it approach off road but I could see myself breaking the rules, pointing the vehicle in the required direction and hammering it on. This could possibly occur if I was being pursued by a T Rex or a hoard of Zombies. Yes I would hammer it on cursing the aforementioned T Rex or Zombies and feel every bump and it's possible consequences and have my brain translate every bump and bang into a future repair job.
So in all of the advertising leaks and advertising speak someone forgot to say "By the way we have gotten the water ingress problems sorted out" or did I miss that too?If you have driven the outback, in reality everything they seem to be testing happens whether you like it or not regardless of your age, bulldust holes the size of cars, cattle grates that make the car launch with 1 foot gaps, unexpected droppoffs from water erosion, 2inch high concrete sets (sounds like outback corrugations to me) Here is some d3 testing.

YouTube (https://youtu.be/0axEywnC6PI)

The shock monitoring system should also help LR not repeat what happened to the gwagons when they tried to cross AU (CSR from memory)

As for wading, from LRO, d5 is 900mm, current defender 500mm, new defender will be more than d5.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190810/0427a5a14cd97de5a3ff368dbbe9abc5.jpg

[Chops]

Spud, you can never have too much testing, or hard enough testing.

That clip of the D3 doing the trench pit drive left me wondering about my experience last weekend.
Towing about 3T of caravan, we hit a pothole, then another (both fairly hard I might add). Got to the campsite set up etc, then Saturday morning we head off for a short sightseeing drive. 200mt’s down the road, a pothole, (no van in tow, just the car), then another pothole 200mt’s down the road, 50mts later, front end of the car starts to deflate and we are rough riding on the front bump stops. Essentially the end of our trip. (Not really, but I’m not allowed to touch the car just yet 🙄).
My potholes,, nothing like they’re pit.

Towed home on the back of a flattop truck with van in tow. Lucky for me, I’m “just” still in warranty. As it turns out, it’s a blown air line, (ruptured) in they’re words, and to be replaced.

Testing testing testing. 👍👍👍
Theoretically, they “over engineer” and “test” everything to the maximum. Those of us who actually know how to drive according to terrain won’t need it,,, but they are very aware that fools are given licences, therefore they have to try and make it bullet proof.

[Arapiles]

I have never claimed to be the brightest bloke on the block but I seem to be missing something here. This promotional speak of beefed up suspension, banging the test vehicle off kerbs, into potholes and over gaps is the talk of someone who has forgotten the fundamentals of taking a vehicle off road. You treat your vehicle with respect and if you have a rut or pot hole in your way you tackle it in the correct gear and sufficient speed to surmount the obstacle ..........as I said earlier I subscribe to the gently does it approach off road but I could see myself breaking the rules ..... So in all of the advertising leaks and advertising speak someone forgot to say "By the way we have gotten the water ingress problems sorted out" or did I miss that too?

All manufacturers test to destruction, and there are also videos on YouTube of the D4 being tested in this way [Edit: the video linked to above, or one similar]. I don't think that it means that they're encouraging that kind of driving.

From my point of view, if for some reason I do hit a kerb at speed I'd like to know that while it might break something the entire front end isn't going to drop off and it's not going to be deadly.

[spudfan]

All very good salient points and I agree with them. But I still think that there are idiots out there who see these videos and think that this is HOW it is done. Anyway I cannot and do not disagree with any of the replies. Just thought that a little subtlety in the pre release press stuff would help.

[Tombie]

Yes I agree. Additional development is great if only to improve those pesky hydrobushes, that though they give a great ride, do not have a reputation for longevity...

$80 bushes and 4 hours in the shed every 60,000km for that incredible ride - I can live with that.

Ironically, if off road and in dirt people drive as slow as a Solid Axle vehicle they last a lot longer. The beauty is that where my DC Cruiser owning mate has reached the limits at 70km/h I was able to stop, grab something out the back, take off and catch him at a casual 110km/h and not notice the vehicle working beneath me.

[PerthDisco]

Here is some d3 testing.

YouTube (https://youtu.be/0axEywnC6PI)


[/IMG]

Live footage there of your P Plate 18 year old child borrowing your pride and joy

[blackrangie]

DDL.Design 's latest effort, hes got some skills.[emoji41]
If only he matched the snorkel up with goodwood/tusk.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190810/be23c1921a0b8b94ab18902100b78bc0.jpg

[Arapiles]

.... Here is some d3 testing.

YouTube (https://youtu.be/0axEywnC6PI)
.

I'm still surprised that it got across that tank trap and didn't simply flip on its nose and cartwheel.

[blackrangie]

This showed up on another forum

YouTube (https://youtu.be/CWYqEinNGUM)

YouTube (https://youtu.be/dqfMx4cvzic)

11miles of trail and both big trucks have blown out rear shocks and the Honda ridgeline 1 blown rear shock, titan ends up with all 4 blown shocks, broken boxes and trim, nissan give the the runaround.

Toyota deny and say it shouldn't happen and suspect misuse on invoice.

Honda are great and wins the day, what??

They put it down to IRS with less unspruung weight.

LR testing hopefully would involve this scenerio, The testing they did was 2 inch concrete sets amoungst other things then fed into the 8 week, 24hr tester from memory to repeat.

Shocks also have monitoring to adjust to avoid failures i believe.

I believe the track the journos from the recent articles were taken on is one of the torture tracks too.

Hope some journos take the new defender accross the Canning stock route in oz, like death valley on steroids, the gwagons all blew shocks when they tried. Will be interesting if the continuously variable shocks and monitoring avoid failures like these trucks

[grey_ghost]

A few years ago a friend was working for Mercedes. They did a trip on the Canning in the then new G Wagon. Half way through all of them had killed their shocks. Not a good look. Mercedes flew in the Australian Military grade shocks and fixed the problem... LR should have got the Australian Army to do some testing... There are some interesting Perentie testing videos around... [emoji3][emoji6]

[blackrangie]

A few years ago a friend was working for Mercedes. They did a trip on the Canning in the then new G Wagon. Half way through all of them had killed their shocks. Not a good look. Mercedes flew in the Australian Military grade shocks and fixed the problem... LR should have got the Australian Army to do some testing... There are some interesting Perentie testing videos around... [emoji3][emoji6]Thats the trip i was referring too [emoji41]

[grey_ghost]

My associate worked for Mercedes in the PR department! [emoji15][emoji6]

[DiscoMick]

The road in that video didn't look too bad, no worse than plenty in this country. They ran the tyres at highway pressures and went too fast though. I suspect their suspensions were tuned for sporty highway handling, not bouncing over rough roads. Their treatment of the vehicles was unsympathetic.

[blackrangie]

The road in that video didn't look too bad, no worse than plenty in this country. They ran the tyres at highway pressures and went too fast though. I suspect their suspensions were tuned for sporty highway handling, not bouncing over rough roads. Their treatment of the vehicles was unsympathetic.Agree best practice is to get speed right and lower pressures, however notice the comments from the main guy in vid though, development of vehicles is done at full pressures, that's why they tested at full pressure, also I think the titan or tacoma had an "offroad pack" & this happened in 11miles not 500km [emoji15]

In this video at moab i remember the landrover guy saying @ road pressures.

YouTube (https://youtu.be/0MDFeQXPtyE)

[blackrangie]

Few new picshttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190812/385e497ade87ae65fc7ee7f40e673533.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190812/e71cece38e9fd8b797c03324876ad26b.jpg

[ChookD2]

Sorry, I call BS on that second picture. Tilted camera or done in post production.

[blackrangie]

Sorry, I call ** on that second picture. Tilted camera or done in post production.Agree but that photographer is amazing, check his account.

Maybe its actually downhill[emoji6], or maybe its just flat, ask him on his account, I'm sure he will reply if you ask nicely. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190812/3f8544e4fee87dabd1243d1cd06d5833.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190812/d326656057db9a1f0e017a3d97e8f242.jpg

[Xtreme]

No need to ask anyone - It's obviously flat terrain, just look at the angle of the vegetation.

[grey_ghost]

No need to ask anyone - It's obviously flat terrain, just look at the angle of the vegetation.

I agree 100% - I figured that with photoshop nowadays - it’s hard to tell what’s real anymore [emoji15]

[ChookD2]

No need to ask anyone - It's obviously flat terrain, just look at the angle of the vegetation.

That's what I look at in a lot of images, being a photographer myself. This one is level or a very slight incline or decline.

[Rolly]

Ha,

I remember when they were filming the man from snowy River.
Beresford wanted the scene of the rider(the man from snowy river) chasing the brumbies down an extremely steep slope to look really,really steep.
So they planted all the sapplings on a lean towards the slope,........on camera it looked near vertical!

[blackrangie]

That's what I look at in a lot of images, being a photographer myself. This one is level or a very slight incline or decline.I'm guessing its why it didn't make the cut to the official photos, Nick seems to have permission to release unused shots after the fact.

[blackrangie]

Another decent article from AU

Land Rover Defender takes aim at Toyota Prado | GoAuto (https://www.goauto.com.au/future-models/land-rover/defender/land-rover-defender-takes-aim-at-toyota-prado/2019-08-12/79588.html)

Again Prado not officially mentioned, however there would be little doubt as to what company he is referring too, LC200 & Prado are no doubt on the list of "conquests"

JLRA certainly seem enthusiastic about its Australian and International potential.

My favs:


“It will be spot on for the psyche for the Australian consumer, where it is about the practicalities of outdoor life, transporting families longer distances, going out to the beach and hills whatever. If there’s a country in the world that this car is best suited to, it’s got to be Australia.”

“We’re a top-ten market globally for that car, and it’s going to be close to one of our best-selling individual nameplates,” he revealed. “If you look at it in that context, and versus the historic affection for the brand and nameplate, and what I know about the car and what it is going to deliver, it is going to be massive for global sales, massive for JLR, and massive for Australia

“Keep in mind, we did very well with the Discovery IV here. Many people have bought Discovery Vs, but some others are waiting for something that is square design and utilitarian. And there is a huge market out there for that size and type of vehicle that we know is seducible, and I’m confident we will deliver.

“So, I think new Defender is going to be a car that has broad appeal to existing Land Rover customers – Discovery IV customers for example, previous Defender customers, as well as a whole lot of conquest opportunity, particularly from another popular brand that I am not going to mention.

Interesting JLR have identified that AU will be in the top 10 places they will sell the new Defender worldwide. Also they are confident it will be one of thier best sellers.

Also comment about square design and utilitarian is positive.

[blackrangie]

Been lots of talk about D7u and MLA for the new defender, this is the first time I've seen a claim of both?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190812/aee4a2c6893e36d58929356c674a8480.jpg

[roverrescue]

Oh dear
Where do I start!
Thanks for the article with interview with Mr Cameron, definitely nailed his stripes (pinstripes of of his $19,000 Hand made wool suit) to the wall.

First note:

Top ten globally (emphasise NOT Australia) this thing is never going to sell 1000 units a month to put it in top ten Australia 4WDs
And I reckon they are on crack if they think it will do it globally but hey maybe

Yes they may outsell Fortuner sales

No they won’t outsell Landcruiser
Unless they open about 250 new dealerships


But now onto the Gold! Last two paragraphs

“If you look at the rational attributes of the car that we stopped selling in 2016 in terms of its cabin size, its safety, its on-road driving, its turning circle… time had passed it by. But the great thing is that the affection of the old Defender, the amount of money they pass hands for, and the people who drive those in the cities where those attributes I just mentioned rationally don’t work, it’s just iconic.

“Fortunately, there are enough people in this world that love to buy a car from their heart rather than their head. And the old Defender in its latter years was definitely a heart decision rather than a head decision. What we have to do with the new car then is still deliver on the affection side and emotional attributes, but correct the errors that affect a 70-year-old car.”

Mr Cameron like the rest of JLR just don’t get it
They see the defenders actual attributes ie off-road workhorse strengths as errors!
They want none of those actual desirable functional atttibutes just the vibe of the thing in yet
Another ****ing luxo SUV. Unbelievable that they honestly think the purpose of the defender was iconism- city people living some dream!!!! Hahaha talk about myopic thinking!

Defender 2020 was The brands opportunity to expand its range outwards and take some market from areas which are not already flooded. Instead they build another ****ty unreliable unsupported expensive SUV.

S

[djambalawa]

Oh dear
Where do I start!


No they won’t outsell Landcruiser
Unless they open about 250 new dealerships

Agreed.




But now onto the Gold! Last two paragraphs


“Fortunately, there are enough people in this world that love to buy a car from their heart rather than their head. And the old Defender in its latter years was definitely a heart decision rather than a head decision. What we have to do with the new car then is still deliver on the affection side and emotional attributes, but correct the errors that affect a 70-year-old car.”

Mr Cameron like the rest of JLR just don’t get it
They see the defenders actual attributes ie off-road workhorse strengths as errors!


"off-road workhorse strength" - i loved my 130 - but there are no defenders in the (northern) territory - out on the cattle stations, farms, emergency services, you name it. I think "reliability" is part of "off-road workhorse strength" and thats the problem. I suspect its mostly the same down south.

And just because you don't believe you don't own a defender because of emotions (although you are susceptible to this as all humans are) there is a definite portion of defender owners, past or present, that are. So his statement is at least partially correct. My daughter thinks a 90 is so cool and thinks she would love to own one - but I'm fairly confident she wouldn't after a couple of months.



Defender 2020 was The brands opportunity to expand its range outwards and take some market from areas which are not already flooded. Instead they build another ****ty unreliable unsupported expensive SUV.

S

To be fair they at least trying not to build "another ***tty unreliable unsupported expensive SUV" - hmm ok maybe the expensive bit then... but yeah the proof will be in the pudding. It was never going to be a tractor that you could hose out the sheep dung off the back seat.

[DiscoMick]

Maybe, but keep in mind that Australia is unusually high for Landcruiser sales. And let's exclude the Prado from this discussion. The Landcruiser, including the 70 and 200 series. are not that popular in the rest of the world. For example, they are rarely seen in Asia, where I used to live. So it wouldn't be hard for the new Defender to outsell the Landcruiser.

Also, from the various reports it seems LR is working hard to make the Defender rugged and reliable. And. electronics are pretty reliable nowdays, more reliable than some mechanical systems. Landcruisers are also packed with electronics. His criticisms of the cabin size, safety, on-road driving and cruise liner turning circle of the old Defender were all correct, so hopefully they have all been addressed. So let's not write it off prematurely.

Australia leads global Toyota Land Cruiser sales (https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/australia-leads-global-toyota-land-cruiser-sales)



Oh dear
Where do I start!
Thanks for the article with interview with Mr Cameron, definitely nailed his stripes (pinstripes of of his $19,000 Hand made wool suit) to the wall.

First note:

Top ten globally (emphasise NOT Australia) this thing is never going to sell 1000 units a month to put it in top ten Australia 4WDs
And I reckon they are on crack if they think it will do it globally but hey maybe

Yes they may outsell Fortuner sales

No they won’t outsell Landcruiser
Unless they open about 250 new dealerships


But now onto the Gold! Last two paragraphs

“If you look at the rational attributes of the car that we stopped selling in 2016 in terms of its cabin size, its safety, its on-road driving, its turning circle… time had passed it by. But the great thing is that the affection of the old Defender, the amount of money they pass hands for, and the people who drive those in the cities where those attributes I just mentioned rationally don’t work, it’s just iconic.

“Fortunately, there are enough people in this world that love to buy a car from their heart rather than their head. And the old Defender in its latter years was definitely a heart decision rather than a head decision. What we have to do with the new car then is still deliver on the affection side and emotional attributes, but correct the errors that affect a 70-year-old car.”

Mr Cameron like the rest of JLR just don’t get it
They see the defenders actual attributes ie off-road workhorse strengths as errors!
They want none of those actual desirable functional atttibutes just the vibe of the thing in yet
Another ****ing luxo SUV. Unbelievable that they honestly think the purpose of the defender was iconism- city people living some dream!!!! Hahaha talk about myopic thinking!

Defender 2020 was The brands opportunity to expand its range outwards and take some market from areas which are not already flooded. Instead they build another ****ty unreliable unsupported expensive SUV.

S

[blackrangie]

What is this talk of outselling Toyota, looks like somebody has been twisting the reporters words [emoji23] no one has ever claimed anything of the sort..only claim is that it will be one of JLRs top sellers and they will no doubt conquest sales from another well known brand.

Do i think they could outsell other brands worldwide, maybe for certain models , LR are certainly not claiming that.

[blackrangie]

Here's a much more accurate article, which admits the partnership speculation.

No new Land Rover Defender bakkie planned 'at the moment'... (https://www.carmag.co.za/news/rumours/no-new-land-rover-defender-bakkie-planned-at-the-moment-but/)

[roverrescue]

BR
Cameron said TOP TEN
To do that you will be outselling Toyota 4WD

JLR are a niche manufacturer in Aus because of a terrible dealer network and long history of unreliability

I agree they can do better and should do better but even if they make a reliable LR

It will still need dealerships (as all the ECUs will be locked ala D5)
And that is why this thing will fail in Australia
Oh and the fact it will be expensive and no dealers

If it came in under $65k like the old one people might chance it
But at 100k plus and closest dealer 200-400-2000km away
People outside of Syd/Mel/Bris won’t buy?

[blackrangie]

Australia managing director Mark Cameron was hopeful that the 2020 L663-series Defender will become one of the most popular vehicles the brand offers as a result of its broader, everyday appeal.



“We’re a top-ten market globally for that car, and it’s going to be close to one of our best-selling individual nameplates,” he revealed. “If you look at it in that context, and versus the historic affection for the brand and nameplate, and what I know about the car and what it is going to deliver, it is going to be massive for global sales, massive for JLR, and massive for Australia

Clearly referring to the new defender and Australia being a top 10 market for its potential sales. Nothing more.[emoji1417]

[roverrescue]

Hmmmm
Okay
So he is saying of all the countries LR2020 will be sold
Aus will be in the top ten sales volumes (minuscule volumes but more than say New Zealand!)

And that of all their same same expensive SUVs they will sell more of these than the others

But still not very many of them

Soooo despite my poor comprehension I am still correct that they are a small time niche vehicle in Australia with a terrible dealer network!!!
And he misses the point

I bought my first defender because it was the only full size (1.3T) payload dual cab in Aus
I bought the second one because the first one was good at what it did and I didn’t want to pony up huge money and burn twice the fuel in a 79 ?

When the current Puma dies.....

S

[Arapiles]

Hmmmm
Okay
So he is saying of all the countries LR2020 will be sold
Aus will be in the top ten sales volumes (minuscule volumes but more than say New Zealand!)

S


Actually, he referred to "markets" - markets and countries are not the same thing. E.g., Europe is a market, South America is a market ....

[Arapiles]

"Sharing nothing with its smaller 71-year-old predecessor, the boxy retro-style 4x4 due in Australia in the second quarter of next year following its global unveiling next month is also expected to appeal to owners and fans of the previous-generation Discovery III and IV (L319 series from 2004 to 2016), since the succeeding technology-heavy and luxury-laden L462-series Discovery V vacated the hose-down family friendly wagon set by climbing significantly more upmarket when released in 2017.

“Keep in mind, we did very well with the Discovery IV here. Many people have bought Discovery Vs, but some others are waiting for something that is square design and utilitarian. And there is a huge market out there for that size and type of vehicle that we know is seducible, and I’m confident we will deliver.

“So, I think new Defender is going to be a car that has broad appeal to existing Land Rover customers – Discovery IV customers for example, previous Defender customers, as well as a whole lot of conquest opportunity, particularly from another popular brand that I am not going to mention."


Fascinating that they admit that D4 owners don't like the D5, but it wasn't the increase in price that was the issue - it was the fact that they blithely abandoned all of the distinctive features of the D4 that were the reason people bought them.

[blackrangie]

"Sharing nothing with its smaller 71-year-old predecessor, the boxy retro-style 4x4 due in Australia in the second quarter of next year following its global unveiling next month is also expected to appeal to owners and fans of the previous-generation Discovery III and IV (L319 series from 2004 to 2016), since the succeeding technology-heavy and luxury-laden L462-series Discovery V vacated the hose-down family friendly wagon set by climbing significantly more upmarket when released in 2017.

“Keep in mind, we did very well with the Discovery IV here. Many people have bought Discovery Vs, but some others are waiting for something that is square design and utilitarian. And there is a huge market out there for that size and type of vehicle that we know is seducible, and I’m confident we will deliver.

“So, I think new Defender is going to be a car that has broad appeal to existing Land Rover customers – Discovery IV customers for example, previous Defender customers, as well as a whole lot of conquest opportunity, particularly from another popular brand that I am not going to mention."


Fascinating that they admit that D4 owners don't like the D5, but it wasn't the increase in price that was the issue - it was the fact that they blithely abandoned all of the distinctive features of the D4 that were the reason people bought them.



"Many people have bought Discovery Vs, but some others are waiting for something that is square design and utilitarian."

I dont think this is admiting D4 owners dont like the D5.

There are now almost as many D5s being sold in AU as RRS's

They are just saying SOME feel the D5 is too luxurious for them. LR from memory purposely moved the D5 more upmarket, they no doubt didnt want the D5 and the new defender competing head to head.

I like his honesty.

[blackrangie]

From another forum regarding after launch events.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190813/17dfb9a844efd39a2ac1b7d0aede0436.jpg

[Chops]

"Many people have bought Discovery Vs, but some others are waiting for something that is square design and utilitarian."

I dont think this is admiting D4 owners dont like the D5.

There are now almost as many D5s being sold in AU as RRS's

They are just saying SOME feel the D5 is too luxurious for them. LR from memory purposely moved the D5 more upmarket, they no doubt didnt want the D5 and the new defender competing head to head.

I like his honesty.

I don’t feel that’s quite right at all. Don’t forget,, I love Land Rover as much as most here, but i’m Also reasonably practical.

We had the option to buy a D5 when we bought the new D4. Based on a couple of factors, we obviously opted for the D4. Not in any particular order as such,, A) Looks, ruggedness (includes space versatility “squareness”), B) Cost, and we ended up with the HSE, and finally C) New car, new design etc — unknown factors.

The fact that there are almost as many D5’s as there are RRS’s tells me they are the “poor mans RRS” so to speak.
Theres also the reality of the fact that accessories are basically not an option for this model, also tells me that no one looks at this car as a serious bush weapon,, “ohhh, an RRS” mentality.

So in my opinion, moving “up market” was a huge mistake for LR. Of course behind every companies moves, are reasons we will never know, but every action has a reaction, and the fact that that there are basically no D5’s out there that are “bush ready” (except for Lee’s), tells me I’m right.

[Geedublya]

I don’t feel that’s quite right at all. Don’t forget,, I love Land Rover as much as most here, but i’m Also reasonably practical.

We had the option to buy a D5 when we bought the new D4. Based on a couple of factors, we obviously opted for the D4. Not in any particular order as such,, A) Looks, ruggedness (includes space versatility “squareness”), B) Cost, and we ended up with the HSE, and finally C) New car, new design etc — unknown factors.

The fact that there are almost as many D5’s as there are RRS’s tells me they are the “poor mans RRS” so to speak.
Theres also the reality of the fact that accessories are basically not an option for this model, also tells me that no one looks at this car as a serious bush weapon,, “ohhh, an RRS” mentality.

So in my opinion, moving “up market” was a huge mistake for LR. Of course behind every companies moves, are reasons we will never know, but every action has a reaction, and the fact that that there are basically no D5’s out there that are “bush ready” (except for Lee’s), tells me I’m right.

I've seen a few with bars and AT tyres. I'm seeing more products come on the market for the new Discovery and seeing quite a few more on the roads now. Personally I don't like some of the styling but I would happily own one.

[blackrangie]

I don’t feel that’s quite right at all. Don’t forget,, I love Land Rover as much as most here, but i’m Also reasonably practical.

We had the option to buy a D5 when we bought the new D4. Based on a couple of factors, we obviously opted for the D4. Not in any particular order as such,, A) Looks, ruggedness (includes space versatility “squareness”), B) Cost, and we ended up with the HSE, and finally C) New car, new design etc — unknown factors.

The fact that there are almost as many D5’s as there are RRS’s tells me they are the “poor mans RRS” so to speak.
Theres also the reality of the fact that accessories are basically not an option for this model, also tells me that no one looks at this car as a serious bush weapon,, “ohhh, an RRS” mentality.

So in my opinion, moving “up market” was a huge mistake for LR. Of course behind every companies moves, are reasons we will never know, but every action has a reaction, and the fact that that there are basically no D5’s out there that are “bush ready” (except for Lee’s), tells me I’m right.

Cheers for your experience, everyone will have a slightly different take on why they did and didnt. I was just correcting what he meant by that statement(not admiting d4 owners don't like the d5), he said some want something tougher.

I would have probably made the same call as you at the time [emoji1417]

On the accesories front lets remember the car has only been out for approx 2.5 years and some people expect there to be as much available as a 200 series that's been out for 8 years, and also expect to see them all over the trails. Lets not forget how long it took for the D3/D4 to get fully kitted out with everything and to see them regularly on the trails.

We have been over this in wont be retro,
Even so there is now pretty much everything you need to equip a d5 for hard offroad. Having said that out of the box most people would be pretty happy with what it can do with just some wheels and tyres.

Lets not forget a fairly bare bones D5 can be still be ordered

Google lucky8 discovery 5

There are also multiple instagram pages dedicated to offroading in D5, which may surprise you.

Multiple factory roof racks and aftermarket roof racks are now available

This ones exciting, new Full rear storage systems and fridge slides.(not ford everest[emoji23]) New Ford Everest Drawer Storage Systems | Fourby Fitouts | 4wd Drawer Storage Systems (https://fourbyfitouts.com.au/new-product-range-release-discovery-5/)

Sliders are available underbody protection is available.

Multiple concealed winch mounts are available.

A proper bull bar is available (only looks good in black in my opinion)
Rhino 4x4 have one in development as per their wensite

Lift kits are available from +.5 to +6inches

Multiple Dual battery kit

18 inch steel wheels

Multiple cargo barriers and dividers.

LR Rear tent

Spotlight mounts

Etc etc

I would say the only thing that is really needed is a rear wheel carrier so that people don't have to carry one on the roof rack, however there are people using towbar mounted rear wheel carriers on Discovery 5's with success in the meantime.





https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190813/8e0c6c63fac888f64ebd1f231de06f11.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190814/29b5762f42d05456953c0b13e5f975ff.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190814/9a074ed680b8e2315ff01fb2cd1256fb.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190814/2daf56864fa1e1e3575bfce1c9744b24.jpg

[Chops]

I've seen a few with bars and AT tyres. I'm seeing more products come on the market for the new Discovery and seeing quite a few more on the roads now. Personally I don't like some of the styling but I would happily own one.

I guess ultimately one would need to look back and see how long it took before the accessories were available for the D3. The D4 would have just followed on I guess from the D3. The D5 has nothing ready, and I’m thinking not to many people are going to want to fork out the cash for a test car (D5) to crash test equipment on/with.

[blackrangie]

I've seen a few with bars and AT tyres. I'm seeing more products come on the market for the new Discovery and seeing quite a few more on the roads now. Personally I don't like some of the styling but I would happily own one.Agreed, for me i don't mind them in dark colours or with the black roof two option, looks pretty good imo. If the defender wasn't coming I would probably be lining up especially with after the fourby fitouts release.

On that, if they released it for the D5, they will for sure do it for the new defender, love their gear. [emoji41]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190814/e2136321a76592d8ae94d1656e1f6abe.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190814/e773902e198a0938e48587cd13b9b93d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190814/c90d9d52fed2e9f126c07eacdf69954e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190814/970daa2bad2f515c8c4dfad28849c26f.jpg

[blackrangie]

I guess ultimately one would need to look back and see how long it took before the accessories were available for the D3. The D4 would have just followed on I guess from the D3. The D5 has nothing ready, and I’m thinking not to many people are going to want to fork out the cash for a test car (D5) to crash test equipment on/with.Im guessing you were posting this at the same time as me [emoji6]

[101RRS]

The fact that there are almost as many D5’s as there are RRS’s tells me they are the “poor mans RRS” so to speak.

This has happened before when the Disco was not as popular as it should have been - for a few years about 11-12 years ago the RRS consistently outsold the D3.

Also on the issue of the popularity of the old Defender. Used values were always high as there were generally few on the resale market (compared to other vehicles) which was because very few were being purchased new for a variety of reasons - the old Defender really had very poor new car sales but was sought after as a used vehicle. In my case I looked at buying one new in about 2007 but just could bring myself to fork out $60k for such a dinosaur of a vehicle - wavey panels, holes in the floor etc - $45K then yes. Other people had their own reasons for not buying.

Then for the new Defender sales, things all changed when it became clear they were going to stop being made - new Defender sales went through the roof and for the last couple of years sales were the best they had ever been - not really sure why other than they were going to be no more. I bet LR wished they had sales like that through the whole life of the Defender but they were really pretty dismal.

A lot of people are disappointed the new vehicle will not be like the old one but how many of these people actually bought new Defenders in the past = by sales, very few except at the end.

If the new Defender was going to be like the old then I believe the old routine will kick back in - few new sales but good used car sales. LR has to move with the times afterall it is about to be 2020 not 1948. From what I see this new vehicle will have what modern people want - rugged functionality, boxy shape to fit gear in and those little luxuries that we want on a day to day basis. I thinks sales will be adequate but not poor but not great. The die-hards will not like it and some old D4 buyers might move to it.

For the Australian market only, I think LR has made a fatal mistake in not pushing out a mid level spec dual cab - that is what they need for Australia and have needed it for the last 15 years. Now it is a small company and dual cab utes are not so hot overseas as they are here so as a global vehicle I can understand not having a dual cab ute as the costs would be great. It might come along in a couple of years but for Aust I would have made a dual cab the first release vehicle followed by the 4 door and then the 2 door.

Just my thoughts

Garry

[Arapiles]

"Many people have bought Discovery Vs, but some others are waiting for something that is square design and utilitarian."

I dont think this is admiting D4 owners dont like the D5.

I'd suggest that's exactly what he's saying - D4 owners really didn't see the D5 as a replacement for the D4, because, as I've noted before, it didn't carry over any of the features of the D4, such as the low waistline, bright and spacious third row, 3 separate seats in the second row and boxiness, that were the strengths of the D4. I did a side-by-side compare of the D4 and the D5 at the dealers - climbing into the rear seat etc, had the kids check them out - and we bought a low Ks D4 instead of a D5.

And, as as an LR salesman in Melbourne very cheerfully told me, people were snapping up the last of the D4s because they knew that the D5 was likely to be riddled with faults for the first few years - which, BTW, it has been (oil dilution, display problems ....). This effect was so marked that the dealer we bought our car from told me that they were selling the last of the TDV6s for $10k more than they had been selling them for a year before.

I also don't buy the "the D5 went upmarket" theory - I saw optioned-up D4s being sold for over $130k, so the people buying them clearly had the cash for the D5. The D4 we bought second-hand would've been about that new (it has at least $20k in options), and I'd presume that the owners traded into a new one similarly equipped. And the interior of the D5s looks cool but it's not more luxurious than the D4.

The truth is that the D5 is a totally different vehicle to the D4 and the buyers noticed that. I had an Evoque as a courtesy car and the D5 is more like a big Evoque than it is a D4.

[blackrangie]

He is saying exactly what he is saying


"Many people have bought Discovery Vs, but some others are waiting for something that is square design and utilitarian."

Its not fair to twist someone's comments beyond what they are.

The sales match his comments

[blackrangie]

Few new bosch test shots.

Going to be interesting to find out what they have been doing with these defenders the whole time.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190814/00ce7389c09515f6940ffb762cf1e67f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190814/9c46c6905cdb0949c6dfae8a8da3af6f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190814/9ea8adf1637f53d9cdc538000796f400.jpg

[blackrangie]

https://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/can-the-2020-land-rover-defender-tackle-the-harsh-desert-in-dubai-ar186281.html

Interesting the article says, Tough times ahead for Jeep

Great photos as well [emoji41]

[blackrangie]

Email this afternoon from JLRAhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190815/473eb3f5225e71fe4b4cd11880a5e750.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190815/92bcf9f8c2aa99de75d10c4cc4e55e16.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190815/8e9aa0b30c370cc6ff103c00c8de276e.jpg

[scarry]

Few new bosch test shots.

Going to be interesting to find out what they have been doing with these defenders the whole time.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190814/00ce7389c09515f6940ffb762cf1e67f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190814/9c46c6905cdb0949c6dfae8a8da3af6f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190814/9ea8adf1637f53d9cdc538000796f400.jpg

We will never find out but the drivers certainly need some parking practice [biggrin]

[scarry]

The truth is that the D5 is a totally different vehicle to the D4 and the buyers noticed that. I had an Evoque as a courtesy car and the D5 is more like a big Evoque than it is a D4.

The D5 is in a completely different market than the D4.

As LR have said,it has been moved upmarket,to target BMW,Volvo,etc,and leave room in LR’s model lineup for the new Defender.

[blackrangie]

The D5 is in a completely different market than the D4.

As LR have said,it has been moved upmarket,to target BMW,Volvo,etc,and leave room in LR’s model lineup for the new Defender.

Agreed, however, I think capability wise, its no less capable, arguably more capable in some ways like wading, however the cabin is a much more luxurious place to be if you don't get the s or commercial version.

[grey_ghost]

Is it just me or could the second picture be one of the "leaked Defender" pictures?

https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/bosch-previews-next-gen-3d-instrument-panels-120006/

[SBD4]

We will never find out but the drivers certainly need some parking practice [biggrin]
Looks like the Bosch AI is not quite ready yet Paul.[wink11]

[irondoc]

Is it just me or could the second picture be one of the "leaked Defender" pictures?

https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/bosch-previews-next-gen-3d-instrument-panels-120006/


No, doesn't match the leaked interior shot

[DiscoMick]

https://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/can-the-2020-land-rover-defender-tackle-the-harsh-desert-in-dubai-ar186281.html

Interesting the article says, Tough times ahead for Jeep

Great photos as well [emoji41]From the video: "It sits on 815mm tyres."
So, if it has 18s, what size is that?

[DiscoMick]

We will never find out but the drivers certainly need some parking practice [biggrin]Isn't Bosch testing autonomous driving? Could explain the dodgy parking.

[Homestar]

From the video: "It sits on 815mm tyres."
So, if it has 18s, what size is that?

225/70/18 or 275/65/18

[blackrangie]

Is it just me or could the second picture be one of the "leaked Defender" pictures?

https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/bosch-previews-next-gen-3d-instrument-panels-120006/Unless it looks like this probably not.

If you looked closely there is a fake plastic panel over the middle section herehttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190815/65f38aeba8e1b09f5d7dd594b741d1dc.jpg

[blackrangie]

From the video: "It sits on 815mm tyres."
So, if it has 18s, what size is that?32's i Believe

[ozscott]

Yep 32 stock on 18 is what would make the biggest point of difference to D5 and make 33 or 34 easy as hopefully which would then be fantastic. Cheers

[blackrangie]

225/70/18 or 275/65/18I think your on the money with the 275/65/18 the 225 is 2 inches smaller i think.

[blackrangie]

Yep 32 stock on 18 is what would make the biggest point of difference to D5 and make 33 or 34 easy as hopefully which would then be fantastic. Cheers34s will be legal without engineering [emoji41]

[irondoc]

From the video: "It sits on 815mm tyres."
So, if it has 18s, what size is that?

275/70/18 is 815mm diameter I think.

So if it is skinnier, will have to be a 75 aspect sidewall

[Homestar]

I think your on the money with the 275/65/18 the 225 is 2 inches smaller i think.

Yep, you’re right, should have been 255/70/18 for the other size. 👍

[blackrangie]

Yep, you’re right, should have been 255/70/18 for the other size. [emoji106]Looking at the moab original tyre size the width is 10inches so to match the width it would be as you say 255/70/18https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190815/a72d225842dd5b53a9f97be1f687205c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190815/344c43c1cbf5bff25471fa3ce530360b.jpg

[blackrangie]

Nick Dimbleby (@nickdimbleby) • Instagram photos and videos (https://instagram.com/nickdimbleby?igshid=lgp3tstrfb3i)

Looking good [emoji7]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190815/59102edcfa3bd1c19ba97511a2265032.jpg

[Arapiles]

He is saying exactly what he is saying

Its not fair to twist someone's comments beyond what they are.


I didn’t twist anything - the article states that D4 owners weren’t buying the D5 and ascribed that to, variously, the shape of the vehicle and a supposed move up market.

The comment about people looking for a more utilitarian vehicle is pretty much an admission that the D5 is impractical - which, compared to the D4, it is.

In relation to the supposed move up market, first, unlike what the article says D4s never were “hose out” propositions and were always expensive, even the TDV6s - most of the D4s I see are HSEs or heavily optioned TDV6s that are not being used off-road or trashed, and second, the people I know who own them are more than wealthy enough to buy the D5s. And it’s odd to argue you’ve moved upmarket when they were also separately claiming that the entry price for the D5 was under $70k.

But I guess it’s easier to make those excuses than to admit that their designers stuffed up by failing to incorporate into the D5 the distinctive features of the D4.

And no-one is going to cross-shop a Prado with a Defender - if LR think so then they’re badly deluded. People pay a premium for Toyota reliability - someone like that isn’t going to buy a Land Rover.

[blackrangie]

I didn’t twist anything - the article states that D4 owners weren’t buying the D5 and ascribed that to, variously, the shape of the vehicle and a supposed move up market.

The comment about people looking for a more utilitarian vehicle is pretty much an admission that the D5 is impractical - which, compared to the D5, it is.

In relation to the supposed move up market, first, unlike what the article says D4s never were “hose out” propositions and were always expensive, even the TDV6s - most of the D4s I see are HSEs or heavily optioned TDV6s that are not being used off-road or trashed, and second, the people I know who own them are more than wealthy enough to buy the D5s. And it’s odd to argue you’ve moved upmarket when they were also separately claiming that the entry price for the D5 was under $70k.

But I guess it’s easier to make those excuses than to admit that their designers stuffed up by failing to incorporate into the D5 the distinctive features of the D4.

And no-one is going to cross-shop a Prado with a Defender - if LR think so then they’re badly deluded. People pay a premium for Toyota reliability - someone like that isn’t going to buy a Land Rover.

Not trying to be a pain here, I think when someones on record, they are usually careful with what they say so it shouldn't be modified.

The direct quote is as follows:


"Many people have bought Discovery Vs, but some others are waiting for something that is square design and utilitarian."


To be fair, he doesn't say d4 owners were not buying the D5.

He says lots have, some were not and holding out for something that has square design and utilitarian

When you compare sales figures from D4 days with sales figures of D5 now, its a fair comment, D5 is selling well but not as well as the D4 in AU.

As far as the D5 bring impractical 200+ odd Australians per month would disagree as would the plethora of worldwide automotive reporters that have named it 4x4 of the year etc since its introduction over 2.5 years ago.

YouTube (https://youtu.be/of2NwNATPHY)

Imo sales are starting to pick up now as people are starting to warm to its looks and realize its potential.

For me, I fall into the category he mentioned, waiting for something that has square design and utilitarian coming from a RRC.

The D5 has moved upmarket, LR have said it on record, and its obvious when you sit in one, its much closer to the Range Rover now esoecislly in high end spec, 70k entry is not cheap, most models in the showroom are mid 100-150.

The move upmarket was calculated, with the defender moving lightyears ahead in one leap, the D5 had to be moved closer to the Range Rover. LR are on record many times saying the whole lineup will make sense when the defender is revealed, so I guess we will see.

I think you will be surprised with the conquest sales from Toyota, be it the prado or 200. Not sure if you have seen a prado or a cruiser in standard form, but they are not amazing looking imo. And there are toones of Australians really not happy with Toyota at the moment. Class actions, reliability issues & not fixing fundamental issues. Having said that i respect Toyota and they have some great cars, I just don't buy into their reliability marketing, its far from the truth at the moment.

Time will tell but imo Toyota customers are ripe for the picking if Landrover nail the styling. A bit like when apple had the market and Samsung came along with functional good looking phones lots of apple customers jumped ship even though apple was more polished, reputable and seemingly reliable.

[blackrangie]

This video just got released, probably the best one yet, looks tough!

YouTube (https://youtu.be/gpbaRE6ofew)

[blackrangie]

Some of my fav bits in screenshots, who does weights, how much is on the swb roof?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190815/8e493a8b43872fbcbc42b57bf5cc3798.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190815/6570498b13ed77442f5e9baf374bc88f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190815/0c9d44521e331b3c7efc90bc5a89dcda.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190815/d91a05c1c4e0c30ccea9b48a8ea81af9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190815/e11eb2cad395059046f02f5145db9285.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190815/f7d92269f190ef5bfd58b5111bab3e1d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190815/8315bbaf8eeff2f9af8cd652cbb5df42.jpg

[JDNSW]

Lookks like they are recognising that owners are going to put silly weights on the roof rack!

[ozscott]

Lookks like they are recognising that owners are going to put silly weights on the roof rack!Only silly if it upsets the Apple cart! [emoji16]

Cheers

[ozscott]

The way they are driving it will attract Raptor buyers at least.

Cheers

[blackrangie]

The Best Defender Tease Video Yet! – Expedition Portal (https://expeditionportal.com/the-best-defender-tease-video-yet/)

Expedition portals take on the video

[DiscoMick]

The way they are driving it will attract Raptor buyers at least.

Cheers
The Raptor has a superb suspension and a revvy 2.0 litre engine, so if the new Defender matches that it will be a very good thing.

[TB]

Why do I keep finding myself disagreeing with people on the wheel sizes? Am I doing something wrong?

The second sentence includes "what is clearly 18 inch wheels over a smaller brake package", and in the third paragraph we get the expansion of that idea claiming that the clip at the 12 second mark "clearly reveals the diameter of the wheel and the small brake discs." It goes on to say "Maybe a 17 inch wheel will be possible with minor modifications or a custom casing."

But... given that LR has made it abundantly clear in both approved public statements and leaked materials that the Defender will be on 32" rubber, it's obvious that the close-up of the wheel at the 12 second mark is showing a 20" wheel. It's easy to verify using a ruler on your computer screen.

On my laptop, from the centre of the wheel hub to the top edge of the tyre takes up no less than 7.5cm of the screen. Since it's a 32" tyre, 7.5cm of screen is covering 16" of real world diameter. So we can break it down into 16 pieces and see that each inch of wheel diameter would take up 0.47cm on screen. And therefore an 18" wheel would need 9 x 0.47 = 4.22cm of screen from centre to edge while a 20" wheel would need 4.69cm.

What I measure is 4.5cm to the inner edge of the rim and 4.7cm to the outer. To me that shot shows a 20" wheel not an 18".

If you want to see the 18" wheel, look at the Bosch test mules back in this post: #172 (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l660-defender/273110-will-retro-post2930730.html#post2930730)

[shanegtr]

After watching that video, I think LR should have a Dakar program[thumbsupbig]

[cjc_td5]

Haha, that was my initial thought too!
After watching that video, I think LR should have a Dakar program[thumbsupbig]

[TB]

At 16 seconds in to the video we get a very brief close-up of a wheel climbing over a rock. In high res you can read the size: 255/65R19, which is an 815mm overall diameter (32.1”).

Goodyear All-terrain Adventure.

[blackrangie]

At 16 seconds in to the video we get a very brief close-up of a wheel climbing over a rock. In high res you can read the size: 255/65R19, which is an 815mm overall diameter (32.1”).

Goodyear All-terrain Adventure.Agreed, i also saw the 19

[blackrangie]

After watching that video, I think LR should have a Dakar program[thumbsupbig]They are in partnership with bowler [emoji41]

[incisor]

The Best Defender Tease Video Yet! – Expedition Portal (https://expeditionportal.com/the-best-defender-tease-video-yet/)

Expedition portals take on the video

great video...

[SBD4]

Some of my fav bits in screenshots, who does weights, how much is on the swb roof?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190815/6570498b13ed77442f5e9baf374bc88f.jpg

Assuming they are the weights you see in gyms, they look to be at least 10Kg. That would put it at 240Kgs.

[blackrangie]

Assuming they are the weights you see in gyms, they look to be at least 10Kg. That would put it at 240Kgs.Agreed plus another 30-50kgs for the rack equipment, plus looks like another weight in the middle.
Nobody in their right mind would put that much on a roof but maybe they are going overboard for the testing to see how far it can be pushed. Front left hand wheel is actually off the ground a little in the video if you pause it.

[cjc_td5]

Yeh but those outriggers are going to be a bitch on narrow tracks... [emoji854]
Agreed plus another 30-50kgs for the rack equipment, plus looks like another weight in the middle.
Nobody in their right mind would put that much on a roof but maybe they are going overboard for the testing to see how far it can be pushed. Front left hand wheel is actually off the ground a little in the video if you pause it.

[Homestar]

Agreed plus another 30-50kgs for the rack equipment, plus looks like another weight in the middle.
Nobody in their right mind would put that much on a roof but maybe they are going overboard for the testing to see how far it can be pushed. Front left hand wheel is actually off the ground a little in the video if you pause it.

Spot on - you saw that video of that Yota at Gunshot the other week? [biggrin]

[blackrangie]

Spot on - you saw that video of that Yota at Gunshot the other week? [biggrin]Nah, any vid?

[scarry]

The Raptor has a superb suspension and a revvy 2.0 litre engine, so if the new Defender matches that it will be a very good thing.

And a 10 speed auto.....[thumbsupbig]

[Homestar]

Nah, any vid?

Oh yeah.... [biggrin]

Gun shot

Make sure you secure your load. - 4x4ing Australia | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/1308730885821549/posts/2902792243082064's=1272472262&v=e&sfns=mo)

[blackrangie]

Oh yeah.... [biggrin]

Gun shot

Make sure you secure your load. - 4x4ing Australia | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/1308730885821549/posts/2902792243082064's=1272472262&v=e&sfns=mo)Daym, wow..im guessing the bolts loosened on the corrugations

Look like he got off lightly, looks like the windscreen didnt get smashed, very lucky.

[blackrangie]

And a 10 speed auto.....[thumbsupbig]Im interested in the 6 cyl new defender until they release the efficient BMW V8 hopefully in hybrid form (v8 is speculation) the reviews for the 2L in the Ranger Raptor say it feels like it needs more from memory, especially when loaded, also didn't the ranger raptor have reduced payload and towing over the ranger?

Fun fact, the guy responsible for the raptor at Ford is now in charge of svo at Land Rover [emoji7]

[scarry]

Im interested in the 6 cyl new defender until they release the efficient BMW V8 hopefully in hybrid form (v8 is speculation) the reviews for the 2L in the Ranger Raptor say it feels like it needs more from memory, especially when loaded, also didn't the ranger raptor have reduced payload and towing over the ranger?

Fun fact, the guy responsible for the raptor at Ford is now in charge of svo at Land Rover [emoji7]

Yes some of the ratings were reduced,but that won’t matter it’s no work ute[bighmmm]

[Homestar]

Daym, wow..im guessing the bolts loosened on the corrugations

Look like he got off lightly, looks like the windscreen didnt get smashed, very lucky.

Apparently it pulled the gutters off.

[blackrangie]

Apparently it pulled the gutters off.Ouch, send it to mulgo for a camper conversion

[blackrangie]

Yes some of the ratings were reduced,but that won’t matter it’s no work ute[bighmmm]Just looked it up, 200kgs less payload and 1Toone less tow capacity then a D5. Its pretty significant for a 2.4Tvehicle i guess, but the susp is very tempting. New defender should be pretty good if it can get air and land with air suspension.

[blackrangie]

Defender Ute! Land Rover considering Ford Ranger rival - Car News | CarsGuide (https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/defender-ute-land-rover-considering-ford-ranger-rival-75712)

Much better article from carsguide re: possibility of ute and first pictures...

Jokes, its just a render but wow, they really did a great jobhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190816/b466f039a18c2b9b3c8622a6ed73b685.jpg

[fitzy]

Just looked it up, 200kgs less payload and 1Toone less tow capacity then a D5. Its pretty significant for a 2.4Tvehicle i guess, but the susp is very tempting. New defender should be pretty good if it can get air and land with air suspension.

What is so tempting?

[DiscoMick]

The Raptors Fox shocks and suspension give a great ride on bad roads, but can't tow as much as a normal Ranger.

[blackrangie]

What is so tempting?The ranger raptor suspension looks like good kit for fun.

[Homestar]

As mentioned the Raptor suspension isn't designed for high loads and can carry considerably less load than the standard Ranger but does ride well compared to others. But it does well for its target market. It is aimed at a higher level as a 'Sports Utility' and those buying into that market will generally understand its limitations.

[fitzy]

Is it a four link rear and ifs front with better shocks.

[blackrangie]

Is it a four link rear and ifs front with better shocks.Correct but much less practical for a tourer, payload and towing wise, great weekend fun truck or light tourer maybe.

[blackrangie]

Certainly looks like a ladder under there, becuase there is a full length rack it certainly adds to the credibility of that, also looks to be something protruding from the front as the profile is different to usual and maybe a snorkel + 4 proper mud flaps

Accessory shoot? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190816/26fdeac79ae9e5f9fb5b63b57b7a67b9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190816/fd9b0e811bb01a09229ed7243895c7f2.jpg

[Homestar]

I hope it looks as tough as that Lego model. 👍

[irondoc]

My money says ladder or jerry can holder/utility spot!

[blackrangie]

I hope it looks as tough as that Lego model. [emoji106]Doubt it haha

[DiscoMick]

My money says ladder or jerry can holder/utility spot!Or maybe an awning?

[Arapiles]

My money says ladder or jerry can holder/utility spot!

My understanding was that it's actually illegal to mount stuff on the side of a vehicle - you might get away with a ladder but a jerry can you won't - or shouldn't.

The only info I could find was from Qld and it says that a roof-mounted load can't project any more than 15cm from the sides of the vehicle. On that basis a lot of the awnings I see are illegally mounted.

There's no indication that mounting something on the side of a vehicle is legal at all.

[cripesamighty]

I wonder if people have had issues registering Perenties with jerry cans mounted on the sides.

[blackrangie]

My understanding was that it's actually illegal to mount stuff on the side of a vehicle - you might get away with a ladder but a jerry can you won't - or shouldn't.

The only info I could find was from Qld and it says that a roof-mounted load can't project any more than 15cm from the sides of the vehicle. On that basis a lot of the awnings I see are illegally mounted.

There's no indication that mounting something on the side of a vehicle is legal at all.If its not illegal, its legal.

Imo if it is a ladder and not just camo it will be removable, put it on when you need it kinda thing.

[blackrangie]

Any guesses on the protrusion out the front?

[cjc_td5]

Shu-roo [emoji3166]
Any guesses on the protrusion out the front?

[blackrangie]

Shu-roo [emoji3166][emoji23]

[Arapiles]

I wonder if people have had issues registering Perenties with jerry cans mounted on the sides.

I was thinking about them - I've seen Perenties with the mountings but haven't actually seen them used. There's a lot of stuff around - like the glazier's trucks that I see around - that strictly speaking probably aren't legal, but which the authorities turn a blind eye to.

[Arapiles]

If its not illegal, its legal.

Actually, that's not how it works. As an example, the Old site was showing what roof and tray loads were acceptable - it wasn't addressing other issues. So, an absence of comment doesn't rule out other laws being applicable.

[Homestar]

I wonder if people have had issues registering Perenties with jerry cans mounted on the sides.

I know of more than one that sailed through a RWC with side mounted jerry cans and still have them attached to this days with current and club rego.

[blackrangie]

Actually, that's not how it works. As an example, the Old site was showing what roof and tray loads were acceptable - it wasn't addressing other issues. So, an absence of comment doesn't rule out other laws being applicable.Again, if its not illegal, its legal.

No laws against it, its legal.

[loanrangie]

Again, if its not illegal, its legal.

No laws against it, its legal.That's called a loophole.

[Arapiles]

Again, if its not illegal, its legal.

No laws against it, its legal.

It's not established that there aren't any laws against it.

[blackrangie]

So is it legal to walk on the beach in the gold coast?

Yes because there is no laws against it.

Shall we move on

[Homestar]

So we can move on, I found a section in ADR 42/04 (General Safety Requirements) 2005 that covers this to a point, but nothing before the previous ADR (1989) which is probably why Perenties and other vehicles get away with it. Anything made after this new ADR came into effect shall comply with it, so modern vehicles have to meet the following -

Section 11 deals with internal and external protrusions - Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 42/04 - General Safety Requirements) 2005 (https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2011C00102)

Based on this I would assume that an Australian variant couldn’t have a side ladder from the factory and fitting one aftermarket would potentially be illegal, but no more so than a fishing rod holder, side awning and such so like a lot of things we do with our vehicles, it’s up to each individual to determine what risk they are happy to run with and accept the consequences of those actions. I this case, if you were pulled up I don’t think it would be too hard to remove it to keep the Police happy. Much lower risk than say running 35” tyres and a 2” lift on a vehicle it is not designed for.

Just my 2 cents. 😊

[DiscoMick]

The Perenties must have been legal from the manufacturer when they were delivered, and military users might get special exemptions from civilian rules.

[blackrangie]

Some more info on defender shoot.

Awesome looking setup on the yota camera vehicle too [emoji41]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190818/ddee43059e55a19edc22b57f201d6395.jpg

[ozscott]

That 200 looks good!! It might steal the show...
Cheers