Improving the Camping Experience

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Originally Posted by 85 county

perceptions over ruling logic, and having no frig-en idea really

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Let's keep it nice please. I see no reason why you make someone's decision to carry one fuel over the other personal. The discussion was going along very nicely. If you don't have anything productive to say, maybe just say nothing at all.

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Originally Posted by AndyG

It would seem, with dual care, LPG can be carried in the vehicle, plus i can leave the sun roof and side window cranked open. (Anyone seen a locking mechanism for partially opened rear windows)

[url=http://www.kleenheat.com.au/gas/about-kleenheat/safety/transporting-lpg-cylinders-safely.aspx]Transporting LPG Cylinders Safely | Kleenheat Gas | Gas Safety[/.

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I based my acceptance of LPG on the advice by Kleenheat, who hopefully know their business. However if 85 Country can refute their advice, I'm all ears and happy to learn.
If I go the shellite route I will get a rated fuel container, and not rely on the vendors display packaging.

I just stick them in the car. When its in the car then strays cant tamper with it.

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Originally Posted by AndyG

I based my acceptance of LPG on the advice by Kleenheat, who hopefully know their business. However if 85 Country can refute their advice, I'm all ears and happy to learn.
If I go the shellite route I will get a rated fuel container, and not rely on the vendors display packaging.

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i do not know what advice you have been given, but some simple facts

Propane is a hydrocarbon fuel, chemical description C3H8.
Its boiling point is -44°F (-42°C)
Its octane rating is 104
Latent heat of vaporization = 183 BTU’s / lb (426 kJ/kg)
91,500 BTU’s per gallon (25300 kJ/L)
Autoignition temperature 855°F (457°C)
Stoichiometric by weight = 15.5:1
Molecular weight = 44.09
Carbon % by weight = 89%
Hydrogen % by weight = 18%
Flammability limits = 2.1 – 9.6%
Viscosity at 68°F = 0.592 BTU/lb °F (2.48 KJ/Kg °K)
Expansion rate = 270:1 (expands in volume 270 times from liquid to ambient pressure vapor)
LPG is auto-refrigerating, when pressure is reduced, it boils by absorbing heat

the last line is important. it absorbs heat when pressure drops. the opposite to say petrol that absorbs heat and then expands.

as for pressure, its just a little more than what is in side your fire extinguisher. same if its a CO2.

Now read this, and please all of it.

[ame]http://www.gsbchem.com.au/msds/hardware/shellite.pdf[/ame]

Now, for shellite i do not know but petrol, expands at 1% per 9 deg. 5 liters fulled up on a cool morning then hitting 40 deg ( red plastic 5 ltr bottle) it is not unreasonable to expect a pressure ( lack of head space) to hit 60PSI
so it getting up there. a tin will not handle that so tins tend to vent, and what it vents will be vapor.

LPG at 270:1, ad will go bang at 19:1, given a volume of a 110 at a guess 5m2. you meed to leek 0.0009259 ltrs of lpg to make a bang, assuming your not moving there is no wind and your 110 is sealed up nice ( yes right lol)

petrol at 30 deg, vapor from 0.015 ltr to make your 110 go bang and needing new windows.
now the liquid fuel will, WILL need to vent!!!! LPG will not, period end of argument.

,y original comments were because, so called decisions were being made based one what some one said to some one who is paid stuff all, that got 1/2 of what was said from some training manual which was based on what some one said or its just the way its always been etc. IE as per my comments no thought logic or knowledge.

now you have some information, reassess.

Not really sure what you're trying to say? That LPG is safe and Shellite is not? Horses for courses I suppose. Lots of people carry LPG around without issue, lots of people carry shellite around without issue. I'm not saying that LPG is bad and Shellite is good, my comments come from using a shellite stove and liking it.:)

My jerry can of shellite lives in my trailer anyway, as would the LPG if I used that, so no issues either way with fumes or gas venting. Safe storage of either fuel should be thought about though, whatever your preference. :)

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Originally Posted by bacicat

Not really sure what you're trying to say? That LPG is safe and Shellite is not? Horses for courses I suppose. Lots of people carry LPG around without issue, lots of people carry shellite around without issue. I'm not saying that LPG is bad and Shellite is good, my comments come from using a shellite stove and liking it.:)

My jerry can of shellite lives in my trailer anyway, as would the LPG if I used that, so no issues either way with fumes or gas venting. Safe storage of either fuel should be thought about though, whatever your preference. :)

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what you have said is it. make your own mind up based on facts. not on what hes said she said rumor and rubbish.

What rumour and rubbish???:confused:

Thank you all with your useful insights.

Maybe another time we can discuss the best way to get a hot shower or even sponge bath, nurse , nurse :p

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Originally Posted by bob10

Never, put a gas bottle inside your vehicle. Whatever you may be told to the contrary, don't do it. Simple, Bob

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In my young days my camping and off roading was done in a modified 62 beetle.Back seat taken out and ply or chipboard panel installed.Had one of the old Finch gas 12 volt fridges.As the beetle was 6 volt the fridge sat there running on gas with the bottle beside it:oI now look back and shudder!!

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Originally Posted by 85 county

i do not know what advice you have been given, but some simple facts

Propane is a hydrocarbon fuel, chemical description C3H8.
Its boiling point is -44°F (-42°C)
Its octane rating is 104
Latent heat of vaporization = 183 BTU’s / lb (426 kJ/kg)
91,500 BTU’s per gallon (25300 kJ/L)
Autoignition temperature 855°F (457°C)
Stoichiometric by weight = 15.5:1
Molecular weight = 44.09
Carbon % by weight = 89%
Hydrogen % by weight = 18%
Flammability limits = 2.1 – 9.6%
Viscosity at 68°F = 0.592 BTU/lb °F (2.48 KJ/Kg °K)
Expansion rate = 270:1 (expands in volume 270 times from liquid to ambient pressure vapor)
LPG is auto-refrigerating, when pressure is reduced, it boils by absorbing heat

the last line is important. it absorbs heat when pressure drops. the opposite to say petrol that absorbs heat and then expands.

as for pressure, its just a little more than what is in side your fire extinguisher. same if its a CO2.

Now read this, and please all of it.

http://www.gsbchem.com.au/msds/hardware/shellite.pdf

Now, for shellite i do not know but petrol, expands at 1% per 9 deg. 5 liters fulled up on a cool morning then hitting 40 deg ( red plastic 5 ltr bottle) it is not unreasonable to expect a pressure ( lack of head space) to hit 60PSI
so it getting up there. a tin will not handle that so tins tend to vent, and what it vents will be vapor.

LPG at 270:1, ad will go bang at 19:1, given a volume of a 110 at a guess 5m2. you meed to leek 0.0009259 ltrs of lpg to make a bang, assuming your not moving there is no wind and your 110 is sealed up nice ( yes right lol)

petrol at 30 deg, vapor from 0.015 ltr to make your 110 go bang and needing new windows.
now the liquid fuel will, WILL need to vent!!!! LPG will not, period end of argument.

,y original comments were because, so called decisions were being made based one what some one said to some one who is paid stuff all, that got 1/2 of what was said from some training manual which was based on what some one said or its just the way its always been etc. IE as per my comments no thought logic or knowledge.

now you have some information, reassess.

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I think he was planning to use it in a stove, not bathe in it.