Thread: High Comp 4.6 Straight Gas. What to use to return to straight fuel

Think I have decided on the edelbrock manifold and a Holley EFI Throttle Body style.

Please do a follow-up once you've got it sorted out, as there would be a few of us interested in how it goes.

Can't find anyone who has done it. More I do anything with the factory efi the more I think this is the best way to go

Proper WBo2 / Sequential inj / cdi/wasted spark or throw the 14CUX back on?

Well we have an Edelbrock Performer manifold

Well that's a good start!

Back

Wow Lockee, I would have thought there were plenty of THOR and GEMS setups from p38a's laying around. It's not like they are valuable

If you have no luck, then perhaps it will be a case of purchasing a P38a that has "failed to proceed" or even a late D2.
I've seen a LOT of stuff for sale recently but the asking prices are right up there in the "Tell him he's dreamin' " category.

Maybe Richard LandyNut has something up in qld. or all4x4 up in newcastle.??

Other than that, I'd probably consider saving some pennies and going for a complete standalone system. not without it's hurdles though...

I better clarify that statement for the benefit of others reading and not Lockee.

For anyone considering this kind of 'modification' There are a lot of options - Variety is the spice of life apparently - especially when it comes to Engine management systems.... There are also a LOT of considerations to make.

For a rover V8 (or actually, any v8 swap) an Engine Management System or "ECU" unit such as an Autronic (sm4) or Adaptronic (e1280s) would be a completely appropriate choice and provide a far better resolution than anything one could get out of a thor or gems setup (or heaven forbid mention of megasq*** amateur electronics). They are both high quality Australian made products, worthy of high praise - and lack of marketing BS. But they are also the price of a small laptop computer (and need a laptop computer to program the setup and cal files) so sometimes the "cost" is not the actual cost...

A motec m800 is right out of the $$$$ ballpark, and they want you to pay extra $$$$ for logging function which is absolutely absurd. so don't waste 3x the cars value on an injection system like that. It's good, don't get me wrong, but it's not THAT good- however their marketing dept will tell you it is all that and a bag of chips. They're the forerunner to McLaren Technologies, have roots deep in motorsport and prices that are commensurate with professional racing budgets - but that doesn't make them value for money, or suitable for an individual on a 'budget'. if you have a spare 10K AUD, then you can start here, and keep spending. One would also assume you have an extensive tool budget, laptop and sponsorship deal to go with your racing stripes on the rover...

Haltech is also on the marketing rage bandwagon- and also going the 'proprietary' route. they want to lure you into their pricing scheme with all kinds of promises and then you find youself having to purchase 'their' branded (or rebranded) ancillary parts- and tbh, the ecu resolution sucks. in a lot of cases we're talking really low sampling rates on a lot of parameters, where other competitors are 10x as fast. They promote their stuff to the JDM crowd - because where there is money and no brains, there is a big market profit. Good on them for chasing the $$$.

There are other systems like VEMS, Trijekt, Microtech (popular with the wankel engines) Link Ecu, EMS, Wolf3D, AEM etc. Each with their own proposition and values, and 'support'. None should be discounted - what one should look for is suitability (i.e. meets all needs) value for money - and is within budget, but one that also doesn't constrain unit functionality to the point where it will cost a lot more money later to make adjustments or 'add functionality' - a couple of good examples are open loop tuning and datalogging - which really are mandatory for a DIY install.

So I'll fill you in on the "support" thing. - You will get only what you PAY for.
Please be acutely aware of the costs associated with the PAID support (which is mandatory for some of these setups as they don't want you to know anything until you pay extra to learn - see motec/haltech examples).
I can't see anyone fitting a properly sorted engine management system to a 4.6 for under 4 grand. That includes ECU, new bosch sensors (tps,map,coolant,crank,cam,UEGO o2) and injectors and ignition drivers, pumps, and pressure regulator.
Then, depending on your chosen ECU, you're either looking at a day on the dyno, or 3 days on the dyno... or with an autotune and UEGO maybe a couple of hours max.

On average, sorting out a DIY engine management system is usually around the $5K AUD mark, and a fair bit of your time... Once it's done properly however, it is absolutely reliable. Any failure is often attributed to the use of poor specification or worn sensors, or installation shortcuts - you know, things like using tape instead of heatshrink and poor routing of wiring, or location of sensors....

Also, bear in mind that the factory setups are not designed to be high resolution or widely configurable. They're designed to the minimum necessary resolution in closed loop, to keep manufacturing costs profitable, and engine mapping extremely conservative.
WBo2 is a necessity for any level of increased performance as well as engine safety. - and if you do this to your 4.6, make sure you have a sensor in each collector. SEE - (techEdge).
Aussies are by far some of the most respected engineers in this field - and you get what you pay for.

ebay is not your friend when it comes to efi hardware.

For fuel injectors, buy refurbed ones out of the US cheaper (shipped incl!!!) than you can get them done here. I have no idea why we overprice this basic service. For example, I bought a full set of siemens injectors (genuine MB parts) refurbed with 10 year warranty, for an E55 AMG M113 V8 for $125. plus $27 shipping, they landed here in 4 days.
yep. 4 days. Just so you know, they're over $1800 for a set from a spare parts supplier, and a 2 week minimum wait. What a load of hogs.

Just be aware what you're getting yourself into -

You can do this "on the cheap" but I've seen far too many projects unfinished, ruined, or worse - destroyed through poor planning and understanding of what it takes to make an engine run reliably, and deliver the expected performance increase.
It's not rocket science either - it simply comes down to purchasing quality components, careful planning of component installation, proper wiring standards and an understanding of the basics of engine management.
When you have a vehicle that has 80% of what you need already, it doesn't mean that the 80% is actually any good - and this is where I see a lot of failures. Especially in fuel delivery, poor sensor location, really really bad wiring and aggressive mapping parameters by so-called "specialist" tuners.

If you are interested in a project like this as a DIY, then just have a look at some of those links I embedded above, check out online suppliers like efihardware who stock reputable brands and not ripoff prices.
start making a list of everything you're likely to need - sensors, wiring connectors, equipment - tools... and work out your budget.
Look for things overseas that you may need, but cannot easily obtain locally - sometimes it will be stuff like specific diameter 60-2 trigger wheels to fit balancer pulleys or dampers etc - or distributor blanking plates / cam sensor adapters etc... even certain knock sensors and the like - but first get hold of the basic stuff, and don't go too big or too small on injector sizes, but rather look for ones that match OE spec, but have 8-hole nozzles etc. which is where you will pick up gains in economy, and reduced duty cycles etc.

If all of that seems too much, you can always pay a specialist to perform these installations. It's often backed by a warranty, and then You'll quickly see why the aftermarket solutions are around - they are more time and cost-effective solutions, but the up-front costs are a bit of a hurdle.

If you're still not sold on the idea or it escapes your confidence in your own ability, There's always the twin carb option... Or a diesel. (arguably more expensive than aftermarket EMS).

The thor manifold is the one I'd use on a 4.6 if I were doing an aftermarket EMS.

Fair bit of food for thought there for anyone considering undertaking this kind of project....