Thread: Tubed and tubeless 3 spoke alloys

Originally Posted by Homestar

All good stuff but from the UK so nothing actually showing the legalities of using a tubeless tyre on a tube style rim without tube here in Australia.

While I get the tyre could pop off the rim under cornering - I think you'd have to be pushing quite hard with quite low pressures to manage this. It's not like Land Rovers are high performance vehicles when it comes to handling...

Would love to see something conclusive - either way, but does it mean if it's not strictly forbidden then it's ok to do?

G`day ,

they have a interest if the tyre says tubeless and they say must be fitted with a tube but nothing more that i read . They being Vicroads .

There is another place i need to look yet .

file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Administrator/My%20Documents/Downloads/VSI26_1212_WEB%20(2).pdf

I`m not very good with computers .

If you Google roadworthy requirement vic roads , you`ll see the pdf and understand what i meant , maybe

Originally Posted by PLR

G`day ,

they have a interest if the tyre says tubeless and they say must be fitted with a tube but nothing more that i read . They being Vicroads .

There is another place i need to look yet .

file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Administrator/My%20Documents/Downloads/VSI26_1212_WEB%20(2).pdf

I`m not very good with computers .

If you Google roadworthy requirement vic roads , you`ll see the pdf and understand what i meant , maybe

If you were able to view the pdf from Vicroads the link is the book that they say matters .

The trouble is the book that matters says that " All information is to be considered Advisory "

The book is Australia wide not just Vic .

If it were bought it would be around $70 my interest is not that great .

Standards manual 2015 edition / by the Tyre and Rim Association of Australia. - Version details - Trove

I should have said earlier that although the post is about alloys that the steel Rostyle rims are in the same boat some are tubed and some are tubeless .

Originally Posted by PLR

G`day ,

they have a interest if the tyre says tubeless and they say must be fitted with a tube but nothing more that i read . They being Vicroads .

There is another place i need to look yet .

file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Administrator/My%20Documents/Downloads/VSI26_1212_WEB%20(2).pdf

I`m not very good with computers .

If you Google roadworthy requirement vic roads , you`ll see the pdf and understand what i meant , maybe

Yeah, all it says is the following which doesn't seem to preclude using tubeless tyres on tube style rims.

All pneumatic tyres not marked “Tubeless” must be fitted with a tube and all retreaded tyres must be marked with the identification of the retreader and the word “Retreaded” and any other markings required by the relevant Australian Standard.

The only issue worth being concerned about is the early B style rim lip versus later J / JJ style rim lip profiles.
The later JJ style is a double-depth lip designed to hold the bead seat band in deeper against the rims lip, with the lips additional depth is there to simply locate the bead seat band and prevent it from rolling off when the pressure is low, and also in blowout situations.

It's primarily the latter reason - not the former, which predicates the legislation, as it was seen at the time to be more dangerous situation to encounter and controlling a vehicle at speed with a sudden blowout is an interesting exercise.

Because of the modern steel belted radial construction of most (not all) passenger vehicle tyres (yes that includes 4x4's) the bead seat band and sidewalls are relatively stiff, compared to the cotton weave crossply tyres of years gone by.

Rather than worry too much about the rim, concern yourself primarily with the tyre construction, the load index, speed rating and whether or not it is LT rated (Light truck) which provides for many more plies in the sidewall construction, than a regular passenger vehicle tyre.

Yes, LT rated tyres don't bag out as easily, but they sure as hell can take punishment, and the stiffer sidewall does help you to control a vehicle with underinflated tyres, prevent the bead seat band from rolling off the lip and provide extra safety margin in a blowout situation.

If your rim is marked 15x7 J or 16x7 J or 16x7 JJ then you can safely run tubless tyres. Just change out the valve stem for a proper solid stainless one, not a pull-through. Or buy a TPMS and fit that up.

Of course, we've not discussed the particulars - the tube rim valve stem seal/hole , nor the use of internal beadlocks, nor porosity.

In converting a quality tubed alloy rim to tubless, it firstly must be made airtight. Don't laugh. Many older rims are quite porous and will develop slow leaks over time. Using a solid brass or stainless steel valve stem, rather than the pull-through rubber ones, will go some way to prevent leaks around the stem. In the case of multi-piece alloy wheels with split barrels, then the internal surface of the rim should be sealed with a varnish or powdercoated - this also prevents internal corrosion. It's not a bad idea to clean up old rims, remove the rubber chafing and apply a nice coat of sealant (varnish / paint / powdercoat) not silicone worms.

Lastly, internal beadlocks provide the additional safety mechanism for tubed rims when running tubless tyres.. "Second Air" type internal beadlocks are worth every cent, and serve an additional purpose, that being you can safely air down your tyres to below atmospheric pressure and still retain a full seating bond to the rim lip due to the inner beadlock.

I'm a firm believer that internal beadlocks serve as an additional safety mechanism over and above the JJ safety rim extra bead seat lip, and if going offroad, enhance the vehicles traction capability enormously. But on a B profile rim they should be mandatory.

Here's a schematic to help you understand why the rim profile is the issue. it is simply a matter of surface area, and contact profile.
bead-profiles.jpg


The whole tube versus tubless thing has been going on for decades.... since tubless rims appeared on the market.

Len Beadell had sound words of advice and I still carry spare tubes for the same reasons mentioned below.
Beadell Tours - Tubes for Tyres by Mick Hutton

I've now got 5 of later rims that say "tubeless" and JJ so I won't be using tubes👍🏻

See post above went for Michelin Latitude Cross 235/70 R16

Those Range Rover three-spokes are handy in the way they're marked "tubeless". The old ones I've got are marked 16K and so are certainly not tubeless. I never did hear back from what's-'is-name, (but then I never did have much luck with buying from this forum), so I'll have to start searching again here in Toyota country.

Sent you a pm