Thread: Failed hill climb recovery in an Auto

What Camel Landy said X 2

(but assume manual/lo range and then)

• Hold it from going backwards with footbrake
• Apply handbrake,
• Pop into Neutral.(NEVER apply Park, I have seen an auto get well and truly jammed up at a training day)
• Release footbrake and let Handbrake hold it stopped
• Put both feet on floor
• Take a deep breath, relax take a moment to collect thoughts.

• If stalled Start engine

• Make sure HDC is still on (it should be)
• front wheels straight
• Into Reverse
• Release handbrake

Down you go
Be brave to allow HDC to kick in
if HDC is too fast for the conditions apply a little brake but do not let wheels lock up

If front of car begins to slide around to overtake the rear accelerate a little to regain traction and straighten up.

Originally Posted by alpick

If stalled Start engine

• Make sure HDC is still on (it should be)

This thread relates to a D2 and I have no experience with the HDC on them but I believe (it has been a while since I have done it) that in the D3 when the engine is turned off and restarted the HDC goes to max speed (somewhere about 18kph) so for a D3 ( and maybe the D2) there should be an action to move HDC to the slowest speed setting before moving off.

Indeed I cannot remember the specific circumstances (so don't jump on me if I have made an error here) but I seem to recall that in the D3/RRS ,if you tap the brakes, change range, change something on the TR the HDC goes back to max speed - I found that unless going down a specific difficult piece of ground that HDC ia a bit of a pain (can be bit abrupt) and actually keeps a small range of speed not a specific speed so speeds up and slows a bit - in the D3/RRS using low range and an appropriate gear in command shift is better and smoother - the torque converter is locked so engine braking is the same as a manual vehicle.

Overall I find HDC on newer vehicles is great for really tight slow downhill sections but not for every downhill section where more traditional methods are better.

Garry

If you are going to rely on Hill Descent Control, once moving, do not touch the brakes. When you touch the brakes, HDC assumes you want to stop, so deactivates. When instructing students with HDC, I tell them that it is a leap of faith when using it, as you select reverse and take your foot completely off the brake, then the vehicle has to reach a certain speed before it kicks in, so it can be a little unnerving for a lot of people.

The official 4WD Victoria procedure for recovering an auto from a failed climb is as follows:

1. Place foot (preferably left) on brake to stop vehicle.
2. Apply hand brake.
3. Relax, catch your breath. (If you have your right foot on the brake, now is the time to swap it to your left foot)
4. Select reverse.
5. Check direction on front wheels and check that track is clear behind.
6. Release hand brake
7. Slowly release foot brake until vehicle is about to move.
8. While maintaining brake pressure with your left foot, slowly accelerate until the engine power over comes the braking force and the vehicle starts to move.
9. Reverse down the hill.

If you need to stop, you should be able to just take your foot off the accelerator, as you should already be applying enough braking force to stop the vehicle. If you want to go faster, you apply more accelerator, your braking pressure should be constant the whole way down the hill. This technique is also used for driving forward down hills.

Regards
Craig Murray
Driver Instructor
Land Rover Owners Club of Victoria

Also forgot to mention that the driver should stay in the vehicle at all times where practical and should keep their foot on the brake. If the driver must get out of the vehicle, then you should consider chocking the wheels. To stop the auto getting stuck in Park:

1. Apply the hand brake
2. Select Neutral
3. Take your foot off the brake and let the vehicle settle on the hand brake
4. Select Park
5. Consider chocking the wheels

An important one for D3/D4/RRS drivers is to not switch the vehicle off when parking on a hill, especially if the vehicle is pointing down hill, as when the vehicle is turned off, the computer turns off all traction aids, including unlocking the centre diff lock. The hand brake on these vehicles only works on the rear wheels, so you can have situations where the vehicle will begin to slide down the hill!

Regards
Craig Murray
Driver Instructor
Land Rover Owners Club of Victoria

Originally Posted by northiam

sorry I meant to say ABS should prevent front wheels locking up?

ABS doesn't work in reverse ..... Found out reversing a tonne and a half of gravel down my brothers ashphalt driveway. Missed the house by about 1 inch with a jackknifed trailer. Sphincter nearly tore the seat covers off

Originally Posted by garrycol

This thread relates to a D2 and I have no experience with the HDC on them but I believe (it has been a while since I have done it) that in the D3 when the engine is turned off and restarted the HDC goes to max speed (somewhere about 18kph) so for a D3 ( and maybe the D2) there should be an action to move HDC to the slowest speed setting before moving off.

Indeed I cannot remember the specific circumstances (so don't jump on me if I have made an error here) but I seem to recall that in the D3/RRS ,if you tap the brakes, change range, change something on the TR the HDC goes back to max speed - I found that unless going down a specific difficult piece of ground that HDC ia a bit of a pain (can be bit abrupt) and actually keeps a small range of speed not a specific speed so speeds up and slows a bit - in the D3/RRS using low range and an appropriate gear in command shift is better and smoother - the torque converter is locked so engine braking is the same as a manual vehicle.

HDC on the D3/D4/RRS does NOT set the 'Target Speed' to the max when re-set or initially engaged (although it probably feels like it ), IIRC the 'Target Speed' is set to a mid-point.

....however, on Freelander 2 it does set the 'Target Speed' to the max.

Touching the brake overrides HDC but the 'Target Speed' will remain the same. If you touch the throttle, the 'Target Speed' will be modulated, based on the amount of throttle but once released, it will come back to the 'Target Speed' again.

BTW - A little trick you can do with the auto is to pause at the top of a descent before tackling the slope. This drops the box into 1st and if you let the car start the descent with HDC kicking in, it'll prevent to gearbox from changing up... i.e. it'll hold it in 1st, without needing to go into Command Shift.

M

Driving Instructor
Landrover Experience
Eastnor Castle

Originally Posted by cmurray

An important one for D3/D4/RRS drivers is to not switch the vehicle off when parking on a hill, especially if the vehicle is pointing down hill, as when the vehicle is turned off, the computer turns off all traction aids, including unlocking the centre diff lock.

Utter twoddle!!!

That's why you put it into 'Park'.

The centre diff is an 'eDiff'. It doesn't 'lock' in the traditional way. Instead, it is constanly variable and when stationary, it won't be doing anything anyway!

If you're in 'Park', you won't have any problems if you turn the car off (but all cars have the potential to slide down-hill if slipery enough!).

M

On a 4WD driver training course we learnt and practised the following (for autos):

Before ascending any tricky climb keep you left foot over the brake pedal and be ready. Don't cross your hands over while steering, that way you know which way your wheels are pointing.

1. when you lose traction and begins slipping backwards , plant your left foot progressively on the brake. (the car wont stall, its an auto).
2. Handbrake on, keep footbrake on (with left foot)
3. Select reverse
4. Check Behind
5. release handbrake
6. slowly release footbrake until wheels creek and car is on the verge of rolling back
7. apply accelerator just enough to "drive through the brakes"
8. maintain just enough left foot brake pressure
9. drive backwards down the hill.

Remember, the key to it all is left foot braking, and it takes a couple of goes to get comfortable with it.