Thread: Remapping EU2 motors - a word of warning

Originally Posted by Rick Fischer

All of these problems can be avoided with a real good European strap-on!, and at a fraction of the cost. Been there done that

Tell me more, hopefully its not the 'strap-on' that comes to mind.

Originally Posted by CountP

Tell me more, hopefully its not the 'strap-on' that comes to mind.

I suppose if you were having "performance" issues a strap-on could be a solution but it's not quite the same as the real thing.

The two faults on the gearbox EAT seem to be caused by loss of communication while reflashing the engine ECU and haven't returned since I cleared them.

The gearbox fault logged in the ECU still returns after clearing faults on both ECU's so that one has me baffled.

The tuner has been in touch and reckons he can solve all the issues, so I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

cheers
Paul

hmmm your situation looks really familiar to me,

I have a 99 defender and put in an NNN I was not able to download the map because of some comms issues with my Nannocom. So the map vendor generated one for me from my VIN.

Just looked at the map I have and it is based on the svlne007-svtnp005 ECU map I am thinking this is for a later defender.

Are the additional data points you are talking about the ones in this attached image? (Standard map VS Remapped)

The remaps don't add data, they adjust the existing curves to achieve better performance. It requires a pretty in depth knowledge of how the ECU operates to do this effectively, and the guys who do know definitely aren't telling how it's done

The screen shot you posted is showing two different tables from two different base maps. Squinting a bit the top base map is sthde021-sttdp009.map which is for a NNN000120 fitted to a Euro/Aus EU2 manual Discovery, the second (your remap) is built on svlne007-svtnp005.map which is the factory map for a NNN000120 fitted to a Euro/Aus EU3 Defender 90.
Because you are comparing EU2 and EU3 maps there is no correlation between the table numbers or addresses. The top one looks like it is the table for idle speed, and the bottom one is marked "reference cut low range" which performs a different function - from trying to decipher the Italiaglish in Map Editor it appears to be related to fuel and is also known as the "torque curve".

The EU2 maps are significantly different to the EU3 maps. Even at first glance you'll see the EU2 map has around 77 tables, whereas a EU3 map has something like 115 tables. The EU2 has 3 fuel map tables which each of which are a 17x17 matrix, whereas the EU3 has 4 fuel map tables each of which are a 17x10 matrix. The EU2 map appears to have single throttle response table, whereas the EU3 has separate throttle response tables for hi and lo range. This makes it substantially easier to tweak and fine tune the EU3 maps.

To fully understand what the map tables do you'd need to reverse engineer the code to identify which inputs are being monitored and what aspects of the performance are being adjusted. You'll see Td5 Map Editor only identifies a handful of the tables and only for the EU3 maps, and even then there is a lot of uncertainty what precisely is controlled by the parameters.

There is professional tuning software that would appear to give the user access to more in depth information about map functionality, but you are looking at products that start at $2500 and head north from there.

cheers
Paul

A little update. The vendor has been in touch and has offered a refund if we don't get the faults sorted out, so that makes me feel a lot better about the exercise.

While looking for some information on how to modify the VIN programmed into the ECU I came across a UK forum post made by someone who had the same combination of coolant sensor and gearbox comms faults after upgrading to a NNN ECU. The poster had finally fixed the faults by replacing the existing AAP sensor in the air box with a 4 wire version from the EU3 motor. The EU3 AAP contains an additional temperature sensor attached to C0158-30 which is shown in the RAVE pinout table as "Not Connected". HOWEVER in the text description for the AAP mentions that the temp sensor is in fact connected to pin 30.

I had been wondering about what effect the missing temp sender would have, and then it dawned on me that the density of a gas is related to temperature and pressure. The IAT/MAP sensor on the intake manifold contains both pressure and temp sensors, so fuelling strategy must already be partially based on intake charge density. So I have to assume that the EU3 motors are using the difference in density between air box and intake manifold rather than pressure differential.

What this means for the EU2 motor running a EU3 map I'm not sure, but I think we can assume that a default value is being substituted for air box temperature, which will potentially result in less than optimal fuelling at ambient temperatures above or below the default. The forum post mentioned above indicates this could have a significant effect on fuel consumption.

Why the lack of temp sensor results in a Coolant Temp fault is a bit curious - it may be that the fault codes are lumped together and possibly a testbook system can differentiate based on additional information.

So what is the fix? We have two obvious options, first is to use an EU2 base map and avoid the issue in the first place, and second is to retro fit the later 4 wire AAP and give the ECU the missing information.

Retrofitting the 4 wire sensor is definitely doable. It does also require replacing the plug at the air box and running an additional wire back to the ECU. The pin at the ECU is unused on the EU2 motors so it is a simple matter of crimping on the correct type of pin. It was mentioned that the later AAP sensor also requires a different lid on the airbox and Microcat does list a different part numbers for EU3 lid. The post reported a substantial improvement (~4mpg) in fuel economy after this change was made.

The AAP sensor is around £80 ex vat, and the airbox lid is £27 ex. vat plus shipping. You'd also need to factor in ECU connector pin and seal, and also find a source for the 4 wire AAP plug. I'm guessing all up this will cost in the region of $150-200 to do.

See:
http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/1357802-post10.html
http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/1413599-post19.html
http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/1363518-post17.html
for posts documenting installing the later 4 wire AAP.

ECU connector pins and seals can be found on ebay.
http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/landrover...&_trksid=p3686


cheers
Paul

Being a bit dense I missed that RAVE actually describes the role of the AAP temp sensor:

The sensor also supplies a voltage between 0v and 5v proportional to ambient temperature. The ECM uses this signal
for the following functions:
l Exhaust gas over temperature protection.
l Turbocharger overspeed protection.

So no prizes for guessing why an EU2 motor running an EU3 map and 3-wire AAP will tend to show high exhaust gas temperatures.

I've made the decision to retro-fit the 4-wire AAP as this solves the EU3 map problem and is backwards compatible with the MSB ECU because the addition wire is treated as "Not Connected".

Originally Posted by OffTrack

Being a bit dense I missed that RAVE actually describes the role of the AAP temp sensor:



So no prizes for guessing why an EU2 motor running an EU3 map and 3-wire AAP will tend to show high exhaust gas temperatures.

I've made the decision to retro-fit the 4-wire AAP as this solves the EU3 map problem and is backwards compatible with the MSB ECU because the addition wire is treated as "Not Connected".

Would this be similar on a TD5 defender?