Thread: Thoughts on wheels.

d1/rrc have a softer spring rate then a d2 which gives them a harder ride.
the 16's should help they will also help with scrubbing on the outter sidewall blocks so long as you use a tyre with to stiff of a sidewall like a lt tyre of low profile tyre (stiffer sidewalls will put more pressure on the edge blocks of a tyre which if they are loaded heaver due to geomentry will make them wear more softer sidewalls will spread the load over more of the tread)
With the geometry they will scrub the outside edge as the outside front gains positive when turning while the inside front gains negative camber so turning puts stress on the outside edge of the tyre.

who ever did your alignment does not have a clue what they are doing (dont worry hardly anyone who does alignments does) looks like they have put the wheel straight ahead on and then have not corrected the drag link to bring the tie rod and wheels back into line with the rear axle then adjusted the front toe in/out.

my guess is once that is done you would end up with around 2mm toe in which might be a little excessive but rear toe is not adjustable

does it pull to the left or right?

yea, the 16's ride much nicer than the 18's, better off road, better selection, they just dont go round corners as well,, apparently LR think thats important in a 2T 4wd,,,

Originally Posted by lyonsy

who ever did your alignment does not have a clue what they are doing (dont worry hardly anyone who does alignments does) looks like they have put the wheel straight ahead on and then have not corrected the drag link to bring the tie rod and wheels back into line with the rear axle then adjusted the front toe in/out.
my guess is once that is done you would end up with around 2mm toe in which might be a little excessive but rear toe is not adjustable
does it pull to the left or right?

Hi lyonsy,

Thanks very much for the info but, sorry, I'm not understanding this fully yet.

I think you're saying the front end should be adjusted by (putting it roughly) dragging it across to more or less align with the rear axle and the rear drive axis, before attempting to adjust the front toe out? If so, can you explain in a bit more detail how this is done? Rather than go back to someone who isn't going to do it properly, is it possible to improve the current alignment 'by hand', so to speak?

My sliding stick for checking front toe out has been successful in keeping the last two sets of tyres on the 300Tdi wearing evenly throughout their lives. Is there a reliable DIY method to check the front/rear axle alignments?

My 2002 with springs rides like a dray compared to my RRC.

I switched 18 inch wheels for 16x8 with 255.70x16 BFG and it rides just as badly. (Well maybe not quite so badly but still nowhere near my RRC)


I have 2 inch rear springs Dobinsons medium and 160lb front green stripe RRC rear springs and Monroe digressive shocks.
The ride is good when loaded but jiggly and harsh unloaded. I put some of this down to the high load rating of the BFG tyres (115?)making a very stiff sidewall, and the enormous front stabilizer bar. Also there is a lot of "head toss" caused by the stiff stab bar. The shocks are quite compliant so I don't think they are a problem

The best ride on the RRC was without both front and rear stab bars.
Having said all that the tyres are great off road and no punctures when aired down and good sand performance which is the main reason I bought them.

Regards Philip A

To align it by hand you will need to string line it so need 2 poles with wide base and decent weight.
You can then ether have the string touch the sidewalls if the track is the same or have it out and measure in till you have the same measurement at the front and rear of the rim.
You then measure the front wheels front and rear which will give you a proper toe reading.
So to align the front once you have string set up front to rear and square on the rear wheel you can do one side by cheating and turning the steering till it is square.
Then set up the otherside the same at the rear. (To check if the diff is bent measure across both strings if their is a differance in measurements you have a bent diff.) but you will have to drop the tie rod end off then move the wheel by hand till it squared up the re attach tie rod and adjust to fit while keeping the measurements square.
Now if your steering wheel is off centre drop the drag link arm and adjust length till wheel is square.
Now if the rear end is toeing in or out the front end will match it the same amount.
So with out knowing if its square or not ill give 2 examples of next.
Car is square adjust tie rod so that both sides measure the same so if you want 1mm toe in each side needs to have .5mm toe.
Car is not square and has 3mm toe in on diff so front end has 3mm adjust the toe untill you have desired toe. So you will need to put toe out in untill you get 1mm toe out each side giving you 1mm toe in.

Once that is all done if you mark the steering colume and steering wheel where is dead straght you will be able to use ya sliding pole to keep and eye on them and even mark it with how much foe at set measurment is.

It will take a while unless you have a pit but once done the car will be as square as you can get it.

Most shops that do alignments have the laser version of this but only adjust the toe mabey camber/caster if adjustable they wont square the vechile up first then adjust they adjust trying to get to square and it kinda works with independent suspension front and rear thats adjustable but non adjustable suspension it wont work.

D2 std spring rates are 190 front 240 to 340 rear.
You d1 should be running 150 front and rear with no sway bars or flimsy ones.
The closest king springs do is a raised comfort rrc spring which is a 150 to 250 front and rear.
Then the best comfort shocks seem to be bilistiens but you can get adjustable shocks and they adjust the rebound with slight adjustments on the bound side.

If you want something with stiff sidewalls and better comfort put the widdest tyre on the narrowest rim so like a 265/285 on the std rims it bags the sidewalls and makes their spring lower but also makes the edge of the tyre work harder when turning corners on hard surfaces but will dig in harder and act like a plow disc when on the slopy stuff.

Hope that awnsers ya question

Oh to measure the foe on the rear axle you will have to measure the strings just in front and behind the rear wheels

Originally Posted by lyonsy

Oh to measure the foe on the rear axle you will have to measure the strings just in front and behind the rear wheels

Lyonsy, you're a legend. I think I understand your procedure. I'll read it a few more times and draw myself some diagrams to ensure it all makes sense (to me at least...).

Oh, and I'll keep a very careful eye on those "foes" on the rear axle too!

Wheel alignment is what Lyonsy said.

I've wheel aligned a lot of race cars and that's exactly how I did it, except we'd make bars that clipped on front and rear with notches on the outrigger to take the string to speed the process.
It was also dead easy to make everything centred off the chassis centreline so you knew if everything was square, something not quite so easy on a boofy 4WD!

With the Defender I just used milk crates with RHS across them at hub height and fishing line down the sides and try and square it off the chassis rails, but we're assuming the chassis is square then and we're talking Land Rover here...

Re tyre comfort, mine has P construction tyres and it rides pretty plush considering the big anti-roll bars, and remember anti-roll bars increase wheel rate in single wheel bump.
If you aren't sure what I mean, take the car for a quick drive and run over a series of bumps with one wheel, go home, disconnect one side of the ARB and repeat the bump test.
I always thought the Defender rode well, and it did compared to the Patrol or any LC 79 Series I've been in, but it's like a tip dray compared to the Disco.
It's been far too many year since I've been in an 80's 110 or RRC so I can't really compare but I remember them being pillowy plush.

Getting back to the tyres, I've always used LT construction tyres on any 4WD I've had, but after driving on P type tyres I'm starting to think hmmmm, I like this cushy ride......

Must be getting old....