Thread: Air Con Gas

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Regards Philip A

The flammability is a risk, but not the most pressing concern. Having had an AC system de-gas itself (failure of the condensor) I understand the risk of even small quantities of LPG in a hot environment like under the bonnet of a car.

The 'nanny state' was enacted as a result of the montreal protocol, and the pressure to reduce the amounts of greenhouse gases in the a amosphere through phasing out of ozone depleting substances - a category in which many refrigerants fall. Australia ratified this agreement. So it's a decision bigger than the 'average joe'.

220cc of LPG in vapour form would make a very big bang confined in the cabin of a vehicle. There is a considerable difference in the engineering standards required for a flammable substance and a non flammable one. You don't see many pressure vessels made for flammable products that are only a few thou thick and you could poke a hole in with a sharp stick, or by dropping it on the ground.
As I said earlier, beggars belief.

It's great that hydrocarbon refrigerants that are designed for cars do not need the operator to hold an ARC license.
It may be that the requirement to hold a special license has created a 'rentier' attitude, limited competition, and kept prices unreasonably high.
Thanks to @PhilipA for posting the link to HyChill Refrigerants

Check your state regulations, they are not legal in some states for mobile a/c systems not specifically designed for them. Queensland is one such state.

Originally Posted by Fast Freddie

It's great that hydrocarbon refrigerants that are designed for cars do not need the operator to hold an ARC license.

True re purchase, but to use it- to physically enter the system and fill it with the unrestricted product, DOES require a license.

Originally Posted by Fast Freddie

It may be that the requirement to hold a special license has created a 'rentier' attitude, limited competition, and kept prices unreasonably high.

No different to many other trades though, wouldn't you agree? The fridgie does not simply fill your AC and find himself 1000g and $20 lighter in his refrigerant cylinder... there is a whole world of business costs, consumables, travel, administration etc behind the scenes that allows him/her to perform that service for his customer. Of course they'll mark up their costs, of course they'll put a reasonable premium on their skills- this is not communist Russia, last time I checked this was called 'doing business'.
In a more generalist sense, there is an accepted rate at which the skilled work will be performed. The skilled work required said license, and as a result of the 10's of thousands of dollars and time and scrupulous audits that apply to the tradesman, these costs are worked into the billable cost to the end user. IF a contractor finds himself in a market with little competition, and decides to price accordingly, then the market will find its balance- either thru price competition as new market entrants become available. On the other extreme, high price with lots of competition could be a sign of anticompetitive behaviour (collusion or similar). The market will always find an equilibrium. Some interesting microeconomics could be pondered, but we should just accept that the forces at play here are not restricted to this one trade, and anything but making an honest margin on one's consumables and service would be bordering on ridiculous!

Originally Posted by Toxic_Avenger

True re purchase, but to use it- to physically enter the system and fill it with the unrestricted product, DOES require a license.


No different to many other trades though, wouldn't you agree? The fridgie does not simply fill your AC and find himself 1000g and $20 lighter in his refrigerant cylinder... there is a whole world of business costs, consumables, travel, administration etc behind the scenes that allows him/her to perform that service for his customer. Of course they'll mark up their costs, of course they'll put a reasonable premium on their skills- this is not communist Russia, last time I checked this was called 'doing business'.
In a more generalist sense, there is an accepted rate at which the skilled work will be performed. The skilled work required said license, and as a result of the 10's of thousands of dollars and time and scrupulous audits that apply to the tradesman, these costs are worked into the billable cost to the end user. IF a contractor finds himself in a market with little competition, and decides to price accordingly, then the market will find its balance- either thru price competition as new market entrants become available. On the other extreme, high price with lots of competition could be a sign of anticompetitive behaviour (collusion or similar). The market will always find an equilibrium. Some interesting microeconomics could be pondered, but we should just accept that the forces at play here are not restricted to this one trade, and anything but making an honest margin on one's consumables and service would be bordering on ridiculous!

Well said and correct,some think we do jobs for practise.......
If a business doesn't make money,then it won't be around for long.
After over 40 yrs in this industry i may have an idea how it operates....

All though,when the carbon tax arrived,there were massive increases in refrigerant wholesale prices that were genuinely a blatant rip off.Competition sort of sorted that out,and many business owners had stockpiled the stuff😊.
Then after the next election it all became history...,and some refrigerant wholesalers ended up in the courts,for reasons associated with the issue.

At the moment,competition between wholesalers refrigerant prices(in SEQ) is extremely fierce,and their margins on refrigerants quite low.

Originally Posted by Eevo

how many of those fridges are driving on the road?

Don't they get delivered by road transport?

Domestic refrigerators have been using LPG refrigerants in Aus since 1999.

I haven't heard of one incident,ever.

Probably because the quantity per refrigerator is very small,normally less than 100grams.