Window Regulator and motor

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AndrewMilne

....

The reason that I am seeking assistance here is that I cannot lower the window, by any amount, from the fully-up position.
The exact reason for this I do not yet know, but it seems likely that something is very firmly jammed and simply will not move, even though the motor is trying to operate.

Cheers, Andrew

---

Yep. that's why I recommended to remove the upper frame .. just makes it all easier to move the now stuck winder assembly around this way and that way to get it to lower just enough to see the window channel bolts to undo them to release the window from the winding mechanism.

If I remember it right tho, you can (maybe) do it without removing the upper frame, and hence the window out of it's channel, but it's so much more restrictive.
That's initially what I thought would be the quickest way to do it.
That is, I started removing the bolts to release the motor and winder mechanism to get the whole assembly to lower to the point where the two (window) upper bolts through their peep holes. You can do that no worries, but then the window is still stuck within the upper frame.
And even with the rest of the winder mechanism free, manipulating it in all directions had it bind against something... either the window or the side sections of the frame, or whatever ... and just couldn't find the perfect orientation to squeeze the stuck winder out of the door aperture.
But then I relented and removed frame and window up and out, gave the winder more room to move this way and that .. and could get it out the door.
Mine had a dead motor.
But, on another occasion I had one where the gear had jumped at the top of the winders stroke, and same deal .. motor would wind but no window movement.

Having just read that new comment, I'd say try the jumped gear method first to save the extra steps of removing the frame.
That is, release all bolts that hold the mechanism onto the door, this will allow the assembly to drop a little. enough to allow you to push harder onto the window downwards to see if you can get the missed gear back into the correct spot in mesh with the motor and see if it will then wind down.
It's not uncommon for a small spot weld that acts as the upper stroke stopper to wear, and allow the gear to wind past the stop point and jam up.

In my jammed gear situation, again I had to remove the upper frame to get it all out .. sometimes mashing it back down and getting gears into their correct location can work, but not every time.

IIRC, first time I removed the upper frame, I removed the mirror, but then found it easier to leave it attached, as long as you can get to the connector for it. It's pretty tight in there.

Thanks again, Arthur.

At the moment, I can secure the car when it's parked.
I am keen to avoid ending up unable to do this, on account of there being a gaping hole where the window presently is.
That could happen if I get part of this done but find myself unable to complete the job!

Just trying to think it through, aided by prior experience like yours.

Sounds like the vehicle isn't secured when parked. ie outside/streetside/etc.

Mines in the backyard, so never had this problem.
But you can still secure it with the window up if you pull it all apart, and find you don't have the part you need at hand, or is fixable.
Like another reply said, could be a roller damaged and jammed, or could be a jammed winder where it's over extended itself.

But if you at least get it apart to see what the actual problem is, you can still pull all the frame and window back in without a working winder mechanism, and use a prop of some kind to lock the window in the closed position temporarily to secure the car again.

Remember that a winder in the closed position is very hard to get out of the door with the window in place, but a working mechanism can be installed(like Philip said) with the frame/window in place quite easily ... and as you already know.

I don't think the upper frame is all that hard to remove, as long as the torx bolts aren't totally seized up! ... and to remove it all takes about an hour or so(assuming no issues with seized torx bolts).
The only hard-ish bit is getting the plug for the mirror, more frustrating than difficult.
I have a spares shell I've been constantly pulling apart for this and that, and I've had two torx bolts issues. one was hard to remove and rounded the torx head, so had to hammer in a larger bit to remove(success), and then a totally seized in torx bolt, where the only way out was to weld on a nut to remove it.
I then had the same issue with the current D2(the one I drive) where the same thing happened and I had to weld on a nut again to remove. Obviously doing that trashes the bolt .. so having the spares bomb was handy in that I used one from the hack to replace the damaged on on the D2.

I don't know what bits and bobs you have access too, to use as a prop, but anything that can be placed under the window channel and down to the base of the inner door will do as long.

Also! .. if you do go down the path of removing the upper frame, it does have a bit of play in and outward relative to the lower door, when you put it back together. I left it a bit loose when bolting it all back together again closed door and let it find it's best alignment. Then opened door and gave it a wee smidge more inward tilt to help seal to the door seal a bit tighter.
DON'T over do this if you do remove it. I over did the inwards alignment and then too much pressure on the door catch and it wouldn't open. no matter what I did, door wouldn't open. I tried for days, trying some thing else. Luckily this was the passenger door, so I could still get in and out myself .. just no way to open pax door. I left it for a few days(didn't drive the D2) and then thought to .. I dunno, try some other thing that I know I'd already tried previously. Door opened like nothing was wrong!
.. haha ... I immediately loosened the upper frame a bit, and from then on has worked fine ever since.
So just a bit of a warning about realigning the frame when removed .. and more so to be weary of trying to get a bit more tightness in the door to account for worn door seals and whatnot.

Yes, I know what you mean about getting the balance right between not having air-whistling due to the frame not contacting door seals adequately, and having the window frame aligned too far inwards, making it hard to close the door properly (or open it easily!).

Had to have two goes to get that right on my other front door.

Cheers, Andrew

Today I undid the 6 bolts that attach the window regulator (including incorporated drive motor) to the inner metal skin of the driver's door in my D2a.
The regulator descended with a bit of wriggling, and I was able to get the window glass down enough to detach the bar at its bottom edge from the "scissor-lift" regulator bar that bolts to it.
I was a bit surprised by this, because the electric motor could not budge the glass one little bit, and I expected it to be seriously stuck at the fully-up position.

From there, I manually slid the window glass up and held it to the top of the window frame with duct tape, while I got the regulator mechanism out of the door cavity.
Then used a stick of wood to prop up the bottom edge of the glass, while I examined the regulator mechanism, and detached the motor from it.

I could not see any cause for my driver's window having been stuck in the "fully-up" position.
This problem had not occurred before in nearly 3 years since I installed a new regulator and new motor.
All 3 of the nylon rollers in the regulator mechanism are OK, as I could previously see by using a torch and inspection mirror.
I put a bit of moly grease in the channels that they run in

Taking note of Philip's advice about centring the motor pinion along the curved rack, I re-attached the motor and re-installed the regulator into the door cavity (after removing the wooden prop holding the glass up).
Then manually lowered the window glass, and bolted the bar at its base back onto the lifting bar of the regulator mechanism.
For reasons that I won't bore you with, I had to have several goes at this, but got it all back in and tightened up.

The window now seems to work properly, except for a slight shudder when it begins to descend from the fully-up position.
It goes all the way up and fully down smoothly apart from that, but the motor does sound as if it is labouring a bit (but this replacement one always has).
I don't tend to use the window often, so I can live with this.

I am frankly at a loss to understand what actually caused the problem, but it appears to be fixed.
I plan to leave the door interior trim off for a time, while I drive the car around and test it out.

My thanks to AK83, PhilipA and others for their suggestions.
I am grateful that I did not have to resort to taking the window frame out of the door, but might well have needed to if the glass had been stubbornly stuck fully-up.
That is not something that I would likely have thought of, so thanks to Arthur for that idea.

Bit late now but some loctite on the motor bolts does not go astray as I have found mine loose from the extreme leverage on the motor as it lifts and stops.
Regards PhilipA

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PhilipA

the extreme leverage on the motor as it lifts and stops.
Regards PhilipA

---

Like the old, exposed wiper linkages. Beware if you like having fingers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PhilipA

Bit late now but some loctite on the motor bolts does not go astray as I have found mine loose from the extreme leverage on the motor as it lifts and stops.
Regards PhilipA

---

I did think that maybe the motor could be a bit loose, such that its pinion gear and the curved rack on the regulator might have come disengaged and then locked up.
But the 3 Torx bolts were still very tight.
I have some Loctite, and I'll apply a little dab if ever there is a "next time" on this!