This is getting bloody annoying...

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Originally Posted by trout1105

.... IF the engine cannot suck air through the filter because it is blocked up with moisture it will simply try to suck in the filter itself .
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IIRC the filter is installed in the orientation as we see it in the pics.
That is, the engine hasn't sucked it in, it's blown it out.

I used to have that issue in my old V6 Rodeo, was on LPG, and with it's massive engine issues it used to backfire regularly, blow the filter out and rip the lid off the airbox.
My filters would look then look similar to Leos.

But that's a backfire problem, severe enough that it used to blow air box lids to pieces(all duct taped together again), and blow the (LPG)mixing valve to shreds too.

So the question is, has there been any backfiring in the car in recent times.

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Originally Posted by AK83

IIRC the filter is installed in the orientation as we see it in the pics.
That is, the engine hasn't sucked it in, it's blown it out.



So the question is, has there been any backfiring in the car in recent times.

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Three problems. Firstly, Any backfire would have to go through the EGR if fitted, the intercooler and the turbo before it got to the filter. The turbo would likely be damaged.

Secondly, LPG is notorious for backfires, diesel ain't. LPG could burn in the plenum. Diesel won't.

Thirdly, the orientation is correct, but the air is drawn in from the bottom, through the filter, and out at the top. So the flow of air is inwards, not outwards, to cause the filter to look like that.

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Originally Posted by trout1105

The lack of sealing allows moisture/water into the air filter element and a wet air filter element will do Exactly what happened to the OP's , IF the engine cannot suck air through the filter because it is blocked up with moisture it will simply try to suck in the filter itself .
Imagine a carburettor with the air filter off and you put your hand over the top of it on a motor that is idling, The same applies to a wet filter.[thumbsupbig]

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I have no problem with that theory, and it could well be correct. The best way to test it is to fit a new filter, properly, and see if it happens again.

I was looking for other reasons because water is heavier than air, and therefore falls to the bottom of the airbox, idling or not. The airbox is designed with that in mind. Think of all the snorkels you see with the inlet facing forward driving in heavy rain. That would be as likely a culprit for a wet filter as idling in a car wash with a perforated thingy.

Also, a large proportion of the filter would have to be wet for it to be restricted as much as that. Yet there are no water stains on the element that I can see in the pics. In fact, I see quite a lot of dust that I imagine has dropped from the filter, which would be evident partially as mud. And if the seal was that bad I would expect air to bypass far more easily than water.

So, fit a new filter and see if it does it again. I use rubber grease on the seal.

BTW, if you put your hand over a carby intake on an idling engine it stops dead. Not quite the same thing.

I hope the OP keeps us informed on this one.

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Originally Posted by Tins

I
Think of all the snorkels you see with the inlet facing forward driving in heavy rain. That would be as likely a culprit for a wet filter as idling in a car wash with a perforated thingy.

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The bottom of the inlet has slots. The top of the down pipe is above these slots. The driving rian hits the back of the inlet and flows down and out the slots.

Attachment 159078

Here you can see the slots. The yellow and white is to mark the bottom of the inlet.

Attachment 159079 Here you can see that the top of the down pipe is above the slots.

There are 4 slots. I have never had an issue with water entering the inlet. Water entering the airbox from other locations, not so lucky.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tins

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Thirdly, the orientation is correct, but the air is drawn in from the bottom, through the filter, and out at the top. So the flow of air is inwards, not outwards, to cause the filter to look like that.

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This is the bit I couldn't remember, not having changed a filter for over a year(very low klms the past 15 months).

Makes sense then.

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Originally Posted by Bohica

The bottom of the inlet has slots. The top of the down pipe is above these slots. The driving rian hits the back of the inlet and flows down and out the slots.

Attachment 159078

Here you can see the slots. The yellow and white is to mark the bottom of the inlet.

Attachment 159079 Here you can see that the top of the down pipe is above the slots.

There are 4 slots. I have never had an issue with water entering the inlet. Water entering the airbox from other locations, not so lucky.

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Hmm. Let's look at a hypothetical. A 2.5 litre engine, doing say 1800 RPM, might be drawing maybe 200-250 CFM, ( Hypothetical guys ) . That is air, dust, smog, smoke insects, and, importantly, water, per minute.

Now, said diesel could be driving the cart at 100 km/h. The engine is hungry for air, and draws it in rapidly. There is probably a measurable vacuum in the intake tubes ( not the manifold, I know that ) Let's now say that it is raining, heavily, like North Qld in the wet.

We have a car driving into this rain at 100 km/h. The engine is drawing it's air in through this:
Attachment 159098

but all the water ejected is exiting through this?:
Attachment 159099

It's a nice theory, but I don't buy it. Those slots are for installation purposes.

Most people do Not drive at 100kph through torrential rain, IF they have at least half abrain thy pull up on the side of the road and wait for the deluge to end.or proceed slowly.
I do agree that the slots on a snorkle will do SFA to stop water ingress in those conditions.

No the head slots are for drainage.

You are supposed to have the head down the pipe an inch or so so that there is a reservoir that water will collect in.

Most water is thrown to the back wall of the head by the speed at which it enters the head. the other slots are for the overflow that cannot be handled by the back one.

If you clean the head regularly you will find all sorts of stuff in the reservoir like bees, dragon flies etc.

In torrential downpours some water will get into the airbox, but if you see a very big cloud ahead you can turn the head around. That is why you have a burper.
Regards PhilipA

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Originally Posted by trout1105

Most people do Not drive at 100kph through torrential rain, IF they have at least half abrain thy pull up on the side of the road and wait for the deluge to end.or proceed slowly.

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Irrelevant to the discussion. But I knew it would come up. It was hypothetical, trout. I was clear about that.

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Originally Posted by trout1105

I do agree that the slots on a snorkle will do SFA to stop water ingress in those conditions.

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Yep.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PhilipA

No the head slots are for drainage.

You are supposed to have the head down the pipe an inch or so so that there is a reservoir that water will collect in.

Most water is thrown to the back wall of the head by the speed at which it enters the head. the other slots are for the overflow that cannot be handled by the back one.

If you clean the head regularly you will find all sorts of stuff in the reservoir like bees, dragon flies etc.

In torrential downpours some water will get into the airbox, but if you see a very big cloud ahead you can turn the head around. That is why you have a burper.
Regards PhilipA

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All good in theory. I'm aware that the snorkel manufacturers say that in their blurbs. But it doesn't explain why I find all the contaminants I mentioned, including water, in my airbox.

But this is now way OT. Could the air filter have become wet enough to do what it did by the car idling in a car wash is the question.