Help with TD5 performance

**TroyMortimer** · 30th August 2020, 05:05 PM

Hi Guys,

Looking for some TD5 gurus.
Ive noticed the my TD5 is doesnt seem to be pulling hard anymore. I thought it might of been that I have not changed my fuel filter. so I changed that today and cleaned the MAF.
Took the car for a test drive and wow. the performace was back. Reving out to 5K with 20psi and driving really responsively. Then shortly enoughly the same symptons came back.

Not reving over 3500, boost only to 15psi. I pulled over unplugged the MAF and tried again. It felt very similar, if anything had a little more power, but only just. Plugged the MAF back in very similar response.

I hooked up the nanocom and this is what i got
at idle...

RPM	Road Speed	ECT	ECT mV	IAT	IAT mV	AAT	AAT mV	Fuel Temp	Fuel Temp mV	TPS1 mV	TPS2 mV	TPS3 mV	Throttle %	TPS Supply mV	MAP kpa	MAP kpa raw	MAF Kg/hr	MAF mV	RPM-Idle	Balance 1	Balance 2	Balance 3	Balance 4	Balance 5	AAP kpa	AAP kpa raw

777	0	88.8	610	43.1	1842	38.7	2013	74.6	869	700	4329	4643	0	4994	102.58	102.46	65	2112	-1	2	-1	3	1	-3	100.39	100.39

and at full load trying to get the bus to 60kms

3510	41	87.2	635	41.2	1915	32.5	2306	74.3	874	3830	1296	1256	99.49	4994	210.9	210.36	522.1	4574	2765	-3	3	2	0	-2	96.42	96.31

3629	42	87	640	41.6	1901	31.8	2336	74.3	874	3480	1637	1730	88.98	4994	212.64	212.4	530.9	4595	2907	-2	2	2	-2	-2	96.28	96.18

3386	45	87	640	42.1	1881	31.4	2355	74.3	874	3130	1978	2218	75.78	4994	205.92	205.99	471	4439	2153	-2	5	4	-1	-5	97.73	97.63

2896	47	87	640	42.8	1852	31.2	2365	74.3	874	2920	2182	2507	68.53	4994	216.73	216.19	471.8	4445	2133	1	3	1	-3	-6	98.25	98.15

2713	49	87	640	43.5	1827	31.1	2370	74.6	869	3011	2086	2375	71.11	5000	214.4	215.61	452.5	4385	1929	-2	1	5	-1	-3	97.87	97.76

2758	51	87	640	44.1	1803	31.1	2370	74.6	869	3830	1296	1260	97.73	4994	214.39	214.73	476.7	4455	2189	-1	3	4	2	-6	97.73	97.63

2985	52	87	640	44.7	1779	31	2375	74.6	869	3825	1302	1260	99.43	4994	214.44	215.32	479.3	4455	2216	-4	2	4	1	-5	97.23	97.23

3017	53	87	640	45.3	1754	30.9	2380	75.9	840	3825	1302	1260	99.29	4994	214.11	214.73	479.3	4461	2243	-4	5	5	-1	-6	97.21	97.1

3047	55	87	640	45.8	1735	30.8	2385	74.7	869	3157	1949	2174	78.58	4994	214.39	214.15	483.5	4472	2279	-2	9	4	-4	-7	97.46	97.36

2832	56	87	640	46.5	1710	30.7	2390	74.4	874	2769	2330	2712	63.81	4994	213.53	215.03	454.8	4401	1999	0	5	3	-3	-5	97.87	97.76

2785	59	87	640	47.1	1686	30.6	2390	75.7	845	2068	3006	3660	41.43	4994	212.07	212.11	442.7	4364	1908	-1	3	2	-3	-3	98.66	98.55

2398	60	87	640	47.6	1666	30.6	2390	74.7	869	1681	3375	4169	27.1	4994	173.81	172.45	323.8	3944	1414	0	1	2	-2	-3	99.98	99.87

2058	60	87.2	635	48.1	1647	31	2370	74.4	874	1600	3454	4281	23.92	4994	151.91	151.74	254.6	3653	1261	0	0	2	0	-1	100.25	100.13

1974	59	87.2	635	48.3	1637	31.5	2346	74.4	875	1514	3540	4389	20.3	4994	142.4	142.99	229.2	3529	1179	-2	-1	1	0	0	100.25	100.13

Ive simalr issues in the past where it was the fuel pump (when the pump was running for a while it couldnt push the 4bar). ive replaced the pump 12 months and everything has been good.

Any suggestions?

I cant tell if its the MAF. becuase its reading vaules.Fuel Recording 30 Aug 2020 - Fuel Recording 30 Aug 2020.csv

**SPROVER** · 30th August 2020, 05:59 PM

Check for oil at the ecu in the loom

**Young1** · 30th August 2020, 07:33 PM

I had similar symptoms with my TD5.

+1 on checking for oil in the room.

secondly, my MAF sensor was not an OEM and was reading high values. Once the ECU see a MAF reading as too high (it appears as a few 0's in the data log) it will cut the fuel, this was a surging feeling at 2500-2700 rpm.
Obviously a new OEM MAF sensor fixed my problem but it may not be your problem. To me, you reading did not show this.
If the MAF is the problem, unplugging it will make the power return, but run a little bit rough (because the ECU does not know the actual airflow).

If it is regaining its power almost randomly and intermittently, it could be a failing wastegate modulator, or a boost leaking for any of the intake system.

**TroyMortimer** · 30th August 2020, 08:06 PM

I changed my waste gate modulator last year, and replaced my injector wiring loom in march and hung the wiring harnessdown for 2 weeks. suprisingly managed to get a little bit oil out of the wiring loom. No oil in the ECU. just the contact pin was lightly coated.

My MAF is cheap chinese one i brought a couple of years ago.

I'll try and take the car for a drive when its cold and see if the performance comes back, then i'll try and clean the MAF (After i put in the freezer for 5 mins) and do the same test.

When i took the car for the test drive the engine was barely warm 46c, water was at 78c from memory. But the most import part would of been that the fuel was just primed / air bleed from chagning the fuel filter. I might try that after I clean the MAF and report back

**shack** · 30th August 2020, 08:28 PM

What did you do that log with? A Nanocom one?

**TroyMortimer** · 30th August 2020, 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by shack

What did you do that log with? A Nanocom one?

Yeah, Nanocom1 and used OffTracks python script to convert from fu1 to CSV.

Nanocom One log converter | DiscoTD5.com

**shack** · 30th August 2020, 09:09 PM

Good work!

I think your MAF is on the fritz, at higher revs it's all over that place, I.e. at 13% throttle it's reading aircharge values that a stock td5 only just reaches at full boot, the deceptive bit is it's reading ok at idle.

I think from memory that the MAF should read about 280-300 at 3000rpm with no load (in park) see what you get...

Cheers
James

**sharmy** · 31st August 2020, 06:51 AM

Did you fit an OE (vdo) fuel pump,the cheap aftermarket ones (including lucas) are flat out lasting the 12 months since you changed it.

**TroyMortimer** · 31st August 2020, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by sharmy

Did you fit an OE (vdo) fuel pump,the cheap aftermarket ones (including lucas) are flat out lasting the 12 months since you changed it.

Yeah, i went through 3 cheap units. under Warranty. All 3 did not make it through last years snow season...

I replaced just the pump with this spectromatic one. This is cheap in comparison to OE. I had read good reports about it at the time

FUEL PUMP LAND ROVER DISCOVERY II 2.5 TD TD5 WFX101080 WFX000240 WFX000280 | eBay

**TroyMortimer** · 31st August 2020, 11:51 AM

So here are the results

Cold - Idle in Park

t	RPM	Road Speed	IAT	IAT mV	AAT	AAT mV	Fuel Temp	Throttle %	MAP kpa	MAF Kg/hr	MAF mV	AAP kpa	AAP kpa raw	WGM 1	WGM 2
0	802	0	15.5	3113	14.4	3181	14.6	0	100.6	72.7	2252	101.47	101.58	0	0
1	803	0	15.5	3113	14.4	3181	14.7	0	100.59	74.8	2246	101.34	101.45	0	0
2	801	0	15.5	3113	14.4	3181	14.7	0	100.6	72.7	2241	101.34	101.45	0	0
3	802	0	15.6	3113	14.4	3181	14.7	0	100.88	71.4	2236	101.34	101.45	0	0
4	798	0	15.6	3113	14.4	3181	14.8	0	100.6	73.1	2252	101.72	101.84	0	0
5	799	0	15.6	3108	14.4	3181	14.8	0	100.6	72.1	2230	101.34	101.45	0	0
6	798	0	15.6	3108	14.4	3181	15	0	100.5	72.6	2241	101.34	101.45	0	0
7	800	0	15.6	3108	14.4	3181	15	0	100.6	72.1	2236	101.72	101.84	0	0
8	793	0	15.6	3108	14.4	3181	15	0	100.59	72.3	2236	101.59	101.71	0	0
9	792	0	15.6	3108	14.4	3186	15	0	100.6	71.5	2230	101.59	101.71	0	0
10	794	0	15.6	3108	14.4	3181	15	0	100.6	72.4	2225	101.72	101.84	0	0
11	794	0	15.6	3108	14.4	3186	15.1	0	100.59	72.1	2230	101.72	101.84	0	0
12	788	0	15.6	3108	14.4	3181	15.1	0	100.59	72.3	2236	101.72	101.84	0	0
13	790	0	15.6	3108	14.4	3186	15.2	0	100.6	72.1	2230	101.72	101.84	0	0
14	786	0	15.6	3108	14.4	3186	15.2	0	100.59	72.3	2241	101.72	101.84	0	0
15	789	0	15.6	3108	14.4	3186	15.2	0	100.6	72.1	2230	101.72	101.84	0	0
16	778	0	15.6	3108	14.4	3186	15.3	0	100.59	71.4	2236	101.59	101.71	0	0
17	788	0	15.6	3113	14.4	3186	15.3	0	100.6	71.7	2225	101.34	101.45	0	0
18	780	0	15.6	3113	14.4	3186	15.3	0	100.31	73.1	2246	101.34	101.45	0	0
19	765	0	15.6	3113	14.4	3186	15.4	0	100.6	70.1	2198	101.34	101.45	0	0
20	779	0	15.6	3113	14.4	3186	15.4	0	100.59	72.1	2230	101.72	101.84	0	0

2000 RPM - Cold in Park

t	RPM	Road Speed	IAT	IAT mV	AAT	AAT mV	Fuel Temp	Throttle %	MAP kpa	MAF Kg/hr	MAF mV	AAP kpa	AAP kpa raw	WGM 1	WGM 2
0	769	0	15.1	3137	14.3	3186	18.6	0	100.6	71.1	2214	101.59	101.71	0	0
1	765	0	15.1	3137	14.3	3186	18.8	0	100.6	71.1	2214	101.59	101.71	0	0
2	765	0	15.1	3137	14.3	3186	18.8	0	100.88	70.9	2209	101.72	101.84	0	0
3	767	0	15	3137	14.3	3186	18.8	0	100.6	70.6	2209	101.34	101.45	0	0
4	767	0	15	3142	14.3	3186	18.8	0	100.6	71.6	2225	101.72	101.84	0	0
5	769	0	15	3142	14.3	3186	18.8	0	100.6	70.1	2198	101.34	101.45	0	0
6	765	0	15	3142	14.4	3186	18.8	0	100.6	71.1	2214	101.72	101.84	0	0
7	1583	0	14.9	3142	14.4	3186	18.9	18.76	104.39	196.8	3372	100.94	101.05	0	0
8	1746	0	14.9	3142	14.3	3191	18.9	2.06	107	165.1	3125	101.33	101.45	0	0
9	1636	0	14.9	3142	14.3	3191	19.6	6.6	105.55	167.8	3162	101.33	101.45	0	0
10	1747	0	14.9	3142	14.3	3191	19.1	6.88	107.01	182.4	3259	101.07	101.18	0	0
11	1822	0	14.9	3142	14.2	3196	19.1	8.05	108.75	189.4	3308	101.2	101.32	0	0
12	1918	0	15	3142	14.2	3196	19.1	9.11	110.78	200.7	3383	101.06	101.18	0	0
13	1942	0	14.9	3142	14.1	3201	19.1	10.99	111.09	210.1	3426	101.06	101.18	0	0
14	1921	0	14.9	3142	14.1	3201	20	10.56	111.66	208.3	3415	100.94	101.05	0	0
15	1969	0	14.9	3142	14	3206	19.3	11.21	112.53	213.3	3448	101.07	101.18	0	0
16	2017	0	14.9	3142	13.9	3206	19.4	11.87	113.7	220.5	3486	100.94	101.05	0	0
17	1959	0	14.9	3142	13.9	3206	19.4	11.79	112.83	214.5	3459	101.2	101.32	0	0
18	1971	0	14.9	3142	13.9	3211	19.4	11.21	113.41	215	3453	101.2	101.32	0	0
19	1974	0	14.9	3142	13.9	3211	19.5	11.23	112.54	212.5	3453	100.94	101.05	0	0
20	1982	0	14.9	3142	13.8	3211	19.5	11.21	112.25	213	3442	101.2	101.32	0	0

3000 RPM Cold in Park

t	RPM	Road Speed	IAT	IAT mV	AAT	AAT mV	Fuel Temp	Throttle %	MAP kpa	MAP kpa raw	MAF Kg/hr	MAF mV	AAP kpa	AAP kpa raw	WGM 1	WGM 2
0	769	0	15.8	3103	14.3	3186	23.8	0	100.89	100.71	70.7	2209	101.72	101.84	0	0
1	771	0	15.8	3103	14.3	3186	23.8	0	100.89	101	70.1	2198	101.59	101.71	0	0
2	1289	0	15.8	3103	14.3	3186	23.9	11.17	102.05	101.87	155.7	3098	101.2	101.32	0	0
3	2015	0	15.8	3103	14.2	3191	23.9	15	111.37	111.21	219.2	3491	100.55	100.66	0	0
4	2678	0	15.8	3103	14.2	3196	24	12.6	127.4	127.83	326.3	4008	100.28	100.39	0	0
5	2783	0	15.7	3103	14	3206	24	14.96	130.9	131.33	349.3	4078	100.27	100.39	0	0
6	2849	0	15.7	3103	13.9	3211	24	15.49	133.22	132.79	358.1	4116	100.14	100.26	0	0
7	2914	0	15.8	3098	13.8	3216	24	17.97	134.69	134.54	372.9	4159	99.9	100	0	0
8	2985	0	15.9	3093	13.7	3220	24.1	15.65	137.01	137.16	386.7	4191	99.89	100	0	0
9	3079	0	16	3088	13.6	3225	24.1	15.19	139.06	140.37	394.7	4234	99.64	99.74	0	0
10	3094	0	16.1	3084	13.5	3230	24.2	13.08	138.76	138.33	388.8	4213	99.9	100	0	0
11	2990	0	16.3	3074	13.4	3230	24.2	12.98	136.73	136.87	380.5	4181	99.8	100	0	0
12	2988	0	16.5	3064	13.4	3235	24.2	12.98	136.44	137.74	382	4186	99.77	99.87	0	0
13	2993	0	16.7	3054	13.3	3235	24.3	12.94	137.3	137.16	382	4186	99.9	100	0	0
14	2996	0	17	3044	13.3	3240	24.3	12.96	137.01	137.74	380.9	4186	99.9	100	0	0
15	3003	0	17.2	3030	13.3	3240	24.4	12.94	137.89	137.74	382	4191	100.01	100.13	0	0
16	3007	0	17.4	3020	13.3	3240	24.5	12.94	137.31	137.74	380.6	4186	99.9	100	0	0
17	3006	0	17.7	3005	13.2	3240	24.5	12.9	137.89	137.74	382	4186	99.89	100	0	0
18	3002	0	17.9	2996	13.2	3245	24.6	12.9	136.73	138.04	380.5	4181	100.01	100.13	0	0
19	3006	0	18.2	2981	13.2	3245	24.6	12.9	137.6	137.74	380.6	4181	99.9	100	0	0
20	3010	0	18.4	2971	13.2	3245	24.7	12.9	137.6	138.33	380.6	4181	99.9	100	0	0

Going for a Drive - Still fairly Cold

t	RPM	Road Speed	IAT	IAT mV	AAT	AAT mV	Fuel Temp	Throttle %	MAP kpa	MAP kpa raw	MAF Kg/hr	MAF mV	AAP kpa	AAP kpa raw	WGM 1	WGM 2
0	1640	30	17.9	3000	14.8	3162	33.2	7.06	114.87	114.41	175.5	3205	101.46	101.58	0	0
1	1680	31	17.9	3000	14.8	3162	33.2	10.39	116.62	116.46	191.4	3313	101.21	101.32	0	0
2	1803	32	17.8	3000	14.8	3162	33.3	15.26	122.73	122.29	211.1	3437	101.21	101.32	0	0
3	2170	33	17.8	3000	14.8	3167	33.3	33.34	148.97	150.28	324.6	3987	100.15	100.26	31.34	3095
4	2583	37	17.8	3000	14.6	3176	33.3	42.21	201.98	203.65	463.4	4428	98.7	98.81	30.23	2964
5	2764	41	18	2991	14.4	3186	33.3	51.73	228.79	229.32	529.6	4601	97.4	97.5	19.21	1857
6	3160	45	18.4	2971	14.1	3201	33.4	62.26	227.03	225.23	552.4	4655	98.18	98.29	16	1600
7	3075	50	19	2942	13.9	3211	33.4	67.8	231.11	231.65	554.4	4660	97.13	97.23	16	1600
8	3148	54	19.7	2908	13.7	3220	33.4	66.34	226.75	225.23	543.1	4633	97.13	97.23	16	1600
9	3419	57	20.6	2864	13.6	3225	33.5	100	225.88	227.86	556.9	4671	96.34	96.44	16	1600
10	3561	61	21.7	2815	13.4	3235	33.5	73.51	228.79	228.73	559	4666	96.86	96.97	16	1600
11	3151	64	22.8	2761	13.3	3235	33.5	55.2	215.68	215.03	514.2	4547	99.24	99.34	0	0
12	2282	65	23.9	2707	13.3	3235	33.6	5.96	155.08	154.66	258.6	3658	101.72	101.84	0	0
13	1125	62	24.7	2668	13.6	3225	33.6	0	110.5	110.62	97.1	2543	101.85	101.97	0	0
14	867	60	25.2	2644	13.8	3211	33.6	0	104.1	104.21	77.3	2300	101.6	101.71	0	0
15	822	57	25.5	2634	14	3201	33.7	2.53	102.35	102.46	78.6	2316	101.6	101.71	0	0
16	1698	56	25.6	2624	14.2	3191	33.7	11.61	113.71	114.12	179.4	3232	101.46	101.58	0	0
17	1752	54	25.7	2619	14.2	3191	33.7	13.61	122.16	122.58	194.4	3340	101.33	101.45	0	0
18	1757	54	25.7	2619	14.3	3186	33.8	14.06	125.06	125.2	198	3362	101.21	101.32	0	0
19	1765	53	25.7	2619	14.3	3186	33.8	14.57	125.94	126.08	199.9	3367	101.46	101.58	0	0
20	1770	52	25.7	2619	14.3	3186	33.8	14.74	126.52	126.66	200.4	3383	101.21	101.32	0	0

I thought it might be easier to open the google sheet if you want to dig into the logs

TD5 Performance Results.xlsx - Google Drive

Going off this information (Defender & Discovery TD5 MAF logging with Nanocom | Empire Tuning)

At idle the MAF should be 55 – 61 mine is 71 on average
At 2000 the MAF should be 185 -200 mine is 219.5 on average

Looking at my results I feel the MAF has higher numbers

Should it expect to see the WGM working? on the cold drive it started kangeroo hopping. At least i can see values in that that column.

Thoughts?

Thread: Help with TD5 performance

Thread Tools

Help with TD5 performance

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions