Reply With QuoteRear Air Con duct, maybe the thought is not as silly as it seems. Don't use the rear aircon at all as all but one of my rear seats are out... This is a fun thought project.
D2 rear air con.jpg
Master
SupporterBeen doing a whole lot of investigations lately over and above installing the 8HP D2 TD5. One of the thoughts that crossed my mind along with induction and snorkels, has been cooling, both Radiator and Intercooler. Cooler temps of intake air have a positive effect on lowering the EGT's irrespective as to any power increase and more effective radiator would allow me to use an Electric Fan.
The TD5 as we know has the intercooler situated directly in front of the radiator, essentially heating the air to the radiator well above ambient, roughly the number looks like intake to the intercooler is a minimum around 60C which is a whole lot hotter than ambient air temperature (having had to deal with blown intercooler hoses, it feels a whole lot hotter than that). The hot side of the Intercooler is on the same side as the hot side of the radiator with fluid temps around 90C being cooled by air already passed through what amounts a heater, that being the intercooler. Darkside Developments who are the ones who did my turbo and inlet manifold have a interesting blog on such which although for VAG engines is still applicable to all intercooling - Intercooling - Darkside Developments
Had been running a 16" Davies Craig fan for cooling and this was fine until a long steep shaly grade of 1400m+ climb on a 35+C day where the temps steadily climbed up over 110C at around 1 degree every couple of minutes and requiring a stop to allow it cool down (The Davies Craig controller has digital Coolant temp with my outlet which I have at the radiator inlet). No doubt the intercooler was in a heat sink state and above the ability to ultimately cool to its full capacity as well. Although this was the ONLY time it did not keep temp, have gone back to the standard setup until I can be assured it wont happen again.
This 16" fan has a CFM of around 2500 and for all other instances including some pretty serious attack on long climbs up in the VHC was capable of cooling the TD5 (along with the electric water pump and controller) and was probably only 'on' for around 40-60% of the time. Sure there has been lots of debate as to EF, I like them and want to go back! To date I have found a 4500cfm 18" brushless that would be able to be incorporated now without additional updates to the intercooler or radiator.
So my thought was simply, if I remove that heat source in front of the radiator and allow the radiator to cool without restriction, this would allow me to use the current 16" EF without concern of overheating, all reasonable I think.
So my first investigation was along the lines of above the engine. Sure this would require cutting the bonnet and a scoop put up there with a fan for slow speed driving, but is possible - would even put the acoustic cover on to help reduce heat soak to it... There are many attachment points for a frame to hold the intercooler in this position, whether they are the manifolds or engine lifts or even on the acoustic cover itself. To be fully effective it should have a fan to blow through the intercooler and Bonnet scoop might look cool though. As with the current setup, without a fan the intercooler is going to be less effective at lower speeds such as long steep climbs
The more interesting option though is water to air intercooling (WTAIC), smaller intercooler which can be installed in the D2's case below the inlet manifold inlet but this requires an additional small radiator, fan and pump. There are options of dual pass of the coolant through the WTAIC which does not increase the footprint but is more effective again.
A Water to Air Intercooler Kit - the radiator
WTAIC setup.jpg
* Water to air intercooler - 1pcs
core size: 10"x4.5'x4.5"
Water inlet/outlet: 19mm
Air inlet/outlet: 76mm
* heat exchanger - 1pcs
Core size: 500 x 200 x 50 mm
Water inlet/outlet: 19mm
Dual Pass Water to Air Intercooler
dual pass ataic.jpg
s-l1600.jpg
WTAIC Barrel.jpg
This could have the WTAIC radiator in front of the engine radiator or alternatively mounted into the bonnet, I would note here that the WTAIC is much smaller than the ATAIC as can be seen by the sizes above. As with ATAIC the WTAIC will not take air intake temps below ambient unless ice baths for the coolant or other means are used to do so - suppose I could plumb the fluid back to the rear compartment and use the rear air conditioner in the D2 to blow through the radiator....
2004 Discovery 2a TD5 Auto Aspen Green AKA Robin
2000 Discovery 2 TD5 Auto Alverston Red AKA Edward
1997 Discovery 1 TDi Manual White - Gone but not forgotten
1994 Discovery 1 V8 Auto - Gone once it consumed half the worlds resource of oil
Master
SupporterRear Air Con duct, maybe the thought is not as silly as it seems. Don't use the rear aircon at all as all but one of my rear seats are out... This is a fun thought project.
D2 rear air con.jpg
2004 Discovery 2a TD5 Auto Aspen Green AKA Robin
2000 Discovery 2 TD5 Auto Alverston Red AKA Edward
1997 Discovery 1 TDi Manual White - Gone but not forgotten
1994 Discovery 1 V8 Auto - Gone once it consumed half the worlds resource of oil
LordRover
SubscriberSon's Patrol has its intercooler mounted over the engine, on a simple frame, with a scoop. Has a fan. Often wondered why that wouldn't work on a D2. Can't find a pic atm.
JayTee
Nullus Anxietus
Cancer is gender blind.
2000 D2 TD5 Auto: Tins
1994 D1 300TDi Manual: Dave
1980 SIII Petrol Tray: Doris
OKApotamus #74
Nanocom, D2 TD5 only.
Swaggie
As does the 1 VD,I monitor the air in and out on an Ultraguage and it seems to work very well,doesn’t load the vehicles cooling system,and never needs a clean outside or inside as it self drains any oil.Originally Posted by Tins
Idling the temp will rise which is irrelevant,once the vehicle is moving it comes down quickly.
Also the shorter intercooler piping virtually totally illuminates lag.
Although in some situations front mount maybe better as the rad fan will pull the air through than a top mount with no fan.
But as Dazza has said in other posts,larger intercooler on diesels make minimal difference to power and torque figures.
LordRover
SubscriberYeah.I got a big one to go with the wastegate turbo to fit to the OKA. PITA to locate it. and for what? I have decided to use the spare D2 one I have.
JayTee
Nullus Anxietus
Cancer is gender blind.
2000 D2 TD5 Auto: Tins
1994 D1 300TDi Manual: Dave
1980 SIII Petrol Tray: Doris
OKApotamus #74
Nanocom, D2 TD5 only.
Swaggie
Oh,and for a water cooled IC,nah,to many complications for me,keep it simple
ChatterBox
SubscriberIt'd work, just not as efficiently as it does now
Shorter piping within reason on a diesel doesn't tend to make a lot of difference, in I guess you meant "eliminating" lag unlike a petrol due to the much higher airflow at lower rpm compared to petrol
Any manufacturer ( or Tuning shop ) will place an intercooler at the front unless there isn't the space or frontal area to do so, even the 300 series has gone water to air behind the headlights ( I agree it's more complexity, but it is more efficient, I know hot V, but they would've had to do it anyway ) In fact, I think Toyota has had to do away altogether with TMIC's to make efficiency standards.
TMIC's would be better than FMIC's only in muddy conditions but then.. radiators condensers etc.
As for larger intercoolers, there might be minimal noticeable differences doing 5-10 second dyno passes but towing a load up a hill on a hot day for more than 20 seconds, or with a vehicle which is running more than around 15% above factory power/torque figures the differences are much bigger, not to mention much reduced thermal stress and lower EGT's
Even Land Rover increased the size of their intercoolers on the same engine ( TD5 )
The correct size cooler for the application is important
Yep, if it's a D2A cooler, that should work well enough ( D2 intercooler 27mm thick, D2A 40mm )
LordRover
SubscriberIt isn't. But the OKA is not intercooled at all, and does not have a wastegate turbo, well it does, but it's in a box. But, maybe I'll use the one I bought. Plenty of room in the front.
JayTee
Nullus Anxietus
Cancer is gender blind.
2000 D2 TD5 Auto: Tins
1994 D1 300TDi Manual: Dave
1980 SIII Petrol Tray: Doris
OKApotamus #74
Nanocom, D2 TD5 only.
ChatterBox
SubscriberIt's been nearly 20 years since I swung a spanner on an OKA, but if I remember correctly, they were a 4 litre that felt like "max power" were just words, that were used in entirely different conversations....
But yep, I do remember plenty of room up front, but also, strangely awkward to work on some things.
I liked them, especially after the abuse they endured from some of the steering wheel attendants employed by the Tour companies out of Broome.
It's tempting to think the small TD5 cooler would be better than what's there now ( nothing ) and It'd cool the air going through it, but I'd suspect the limiting factor would be max airflow depending on what boost, revs, Compression ratio, fuel rate etc.
Apologies to RRT for hijack, but IMHO, introducing extra complexities such as Water to air I/C starts to veer away from the relative simplicity / reliability of the TD5 D2. Especially since they are not a vehicle prone to overheating.
LordRover
SubscriberIn a nutshell. Apparently just the turbo gives them around a 50% increase. I might just start there, as I have one and it is an almost bolt up job.
And yes, apologies.
JayTee
Nullus Anxietus
Cancer is gender blind.
2000 D2 TD5 Auto: Tins
1994 D1 300TDi Manual: Dave
1980 SIII Petrol Tray: Doris
OKApotamus #74
Nanocom, D2 TD5 only.
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