Thread: Jail breaking a Hawkeye

Actually I think HawkEye tools are probably the only ones that have a reasonable pricing model!!

Most other diagnostic tools require a new license for EVERY vehicle regardless of whether it is the same type as another. They are locked to a VIN (or number of VINs). Given development costs I understand why they do this.

The HawkEye is the only tool that I know of that allows use on a type of vehicle. That is, if it is unlocked for an L322 Range Rover it will work on ALL L322 Range Rovers it may be plugged into.

For an extra $250 to allow it to work with all D2s, or all P38s for example, I think is excellent value considering the amount of R&D that has gone into producing the code for these things.

Anyway that's my take on it.

Normal programming may now resume.

Cheers,
Iain

I agree RangieBit

There is a growing mentality that software grows on trees and is some kind of free resource.

AnD3rew
I employ several technical staff at no small cost who spend vast amounts of R&D time in producing diagnostic capabilities for these vehicles.

Please explain why you feel you should have access to this without contributing accordingly.

you mention

$200 it is ridiculous

can i ask what you base this statement on

Originally Posted by BBS Guy

I agree RangieBit

There is a growing mentality that software grows on trees and is some kind of free resource.

AnD3rew
I employ several technical staff at no small cost who spend vast amounts of R&D time in producing diagnostic capabilities for these vehicles.

Please explain why you feel you should have access to this without contributing accordingly.

you mention



can i ask what you base this statement on

Because it is obviously profitable to sell the tool with all of the software loaded already, if you purchase the extra unlock codes it is all cream for them. One thing I don't think a lot of these guys have worked out is that if you sell your upgrades, and extra capabilities for a small amount then you sell a load more than if you sell it for a large amount. Apple worked this out with iTunes and Apps where you sell stuff for a small amount and you make a lot more.

Originally Posted by AnD3rew

.......... Apple worked this out with iTunes and Apps where you sell stuff for a small amount and you make a lot more.

Totally different kettle of fish. Apple have a market of millions of users to go at, BBS and the like have a very small target market.

Originally Posted by sheerluck

Totally different kettle of fish. Apple have a market of millions of users to go at, BBS and the like have a very small target market.

To a degree yes, but there will be a price point where it tips over. It may not be 99c like itis for Apps, but it might be 10-20-30-40 or $50.

Originally Posted by RangieBit

Actually I think HawkEye tools are probably the only ones that have a reasonable pricing model!!

Most other diagnostic tools require a new license for EVERY vehicle regardless of whether it is the same type as another. They are locked to a VIN (or number of VINs). Given development costs I understand why they do this.

The HawkEye is the only tool that I know of that allows use on a type of vehicle. That is, if it is unlocked for an L322 Range Rover it will work on ALL L322 Range Rovers it may be plugged into.

For an extra $250 to allow it to work with all D2s, or all P38s for example, I think is excellent value considering the amount of R&D that has gone into producing the code for these things.

Anyway that's my take on it.

Normal programming may now resume.

Cheers,
Iain

Yes your right you buy an unlock code for Discovery 2, it allows you to plug into a V8 and TD5, it works on both.

Nanocom evo on the other hand will only allow 1 engine eg V8 will not work for TD5 without paying again.

G'day AnD3rew (and others of like mind),

Actually having all the software already on the tool but locked is more a user convenience than the vendors. People get a little fussed by having to upload new code to the tool just to get another vehicle type working. This is particularly true of tools like the Faultmate where they are legitimate tools for the independent garages and service facilities. Would you really like to get a set of 15 discs that you had to upload to the device (and hope that they all worked) just to get set up in your workshop business for another range of vehicles? or have it hooked up to the internet overnight and hope that the link didn't crash 15 minutes in and you had to do it all again the following night?

I know I wouldn't and I've been there, done that too!!

I think part of the economic model for the vendors is indeed the question of "How much would a user really pay for this and still think they were getting value?". In a lot of cases I'm sure the answer is actually somewhat less then the vendor really needs to obtain per unit based on initial market assessment. It may be that the number of units (X) you expect to sell at price (Y) = Required ROI + Uplift (Z), where X is too low or Y is too high to be viable for Z. The one thing almost everyone forgets to think about when the B&M about the pricing model, is how much does user support cost the vendor, remembering that they are certainly not a charity and attempting to be a profitable business.

How many vendors of el cheapo tools do you think you'd see hanging out on fora like this, garnering user feedback and responding to usage issues?

If you want to use the iTunes analogy there, how much R&D do you think goes into a 99c app, how reliable is it, what support does it have, and how many units do you think get downloaded? Without being too melodramatic here, how much would you "value" that 99c app? Would you risk your $50000 car on its advice? I suspect not.

How much more goes into a true "commercial" app that costs $19.99 (and in a lot of cases significantly more), what's its support level like and how many units of that get downloaded?

Ask yourself this perhaps - If you just paid $50 for a tool to diagnose and/or repair something on your car, how confident would you feel with the results of using it as compared to something you had to pay $500 for, even with supposed similar functionality? They may indeed be equal while they are working. Now what happens if you have a usage query, or maybe even a product issue? How much support do you realistically think you are going to get from the $50 vendor as opposed to the $500 vendor?

Are you going to fit a 99c oil filter on your engine, or a $9 one?

Are you going to torque the head bolts with a $20 torque wrench or a $180 one?

Now think about it realistically, how many IID Tools, Faultmates, HawkEyes, Autologics, VCSs and all the rest get sold worldwide and how much R&D cost is involved in their production. Remember it isn't all about just software as is the case with the apps on iTunes because that's a common and defined platform, these guys have to develop hardware as well!! That hardware development cost, while cheaper now than it was some time ago, still isn't a write off item in the R&D budget.

How much is your pride and joy vehicle worth and would you use $2 tools on it? If not, why not?

After many years working in a variety of industries it still irks me that people want the silk purse from the sows ear, or to be more vernacular, they want champagne service from a beer budget.

I'm OK now, brief rant over.

Cheers,
Iain

AnD3rew

I specifically asked you to validate your statement that $200 is a ridiculous price.
In your response you seem to have neglected to actually answer this, quoting only a business model of lower price = more sales, under which LR's should also apparently cost next to nothing to buy.

By example

if you purchase the extra unlock codes it is all cream for them.

Seems to indicate that you think it costs nothing to develop software and that adding more capability costs nothing to develop.

It irks me that no matter what the price, folks like you expect things to cost less than they do.

Yet you chose to own and buy a Land Rover rather than many of the cheaper alternates.

Along with other members i own a number of LR's and accept the cost of ownership as part of that, as i live in the real world.

Perhaps you should buy a Ford or a Jaguar, for which there is still no third diagnostic equipment available at all to make you truly appreciate what you currently have available at any price, let alone a paltry $200

I have always done what i can for all LR owners in providing what i do at the best possible price i can.

Many will know that i stepped in and saved possibly the best value for money equipment from disappearing. I added additional vehicle system coverage, debugged it to flawless operational status, and indeed totally reworked it physically beyond anyone's belief.

When you have given as much as i have, and done as much as i have to help LR owners out, Then you can criticize me and call me a profiteer.

Until then, i think you really need to think before you type.