Thread: Jail breaking a Hawkeye

Originally Posted by AnD3rew

Mate I have nothing against profit, calling it cream isnt an insult, I like cream , you have the right to try to make as much as you can out of the work you do and investment you make, just like as a consumer I have the right to try and get the stuff I want at the lowest price I can and keep that profit in my pocket if I can. It how the market works.

I merely suggested to you another market model for how you might make it work, you can take it or leave it, no skin off my nose.

I can see that if you are selling to workshops you might want to charge more for a model that covers all models of cars but for a consumer who uses it only for their current car but might want to change that car or might have two landy's, or might want to sell it on eBay if he sells his Landy and will have a bigger market if it covers more than one model it is a barrier to the original purchase if each extra model costs more than half the cost of the original unit. But if it was a smaller amount then it is less of a barrier and would be more likely to both buy the original unit and to buy additional model unlocks.

A lower unlock cost also reduces the incentive for people to try and jailbreak.

As for rescuing the business, well good on you if you are passionate about Land Rovers, I love dealing with vendors who are but I hope you did it because you saw an opportunity and not as a charity but that doesn't change a thing about what I have said.

....

I have a Nanocom, unlocked for D2V8. Now I'll need a new code (at cost) to use for D2TD5. Same for each other model/engine combo. Now each cost I see as a contribution to the individual development of each model/engines software so as I need it I'll pay for it.

Now if the thing would only stay turned on in gauge mode...

Originally Posted by TerryO

Sorry Andrew on this occasion I have to say I disagree with you and for anyone to break the unlock codes is no different to stealing.

cheers,
Terry

That's ok, I on principle disagree with myself on an ethical basis
But I guess my point is that for me at least I don't see the value at half the cost of the new device purpose which is why i contemplate other options. If enough others do see the value then I guess he has a workable business model, if enough others feel the way I do then his business is either at risk or underperforming its potential.

From a legal rather than ethical point of view it would be an interesting proposition re stealing. If you purchase the device and it has the software loaded, one way of looking at it is that once the device is purchased you own it in its entirety and are free to do with it what you will, to take a Landrover example if Land Rover tried to stop owners modifying their vehicles then many of us here would be in trouble. I believe Rolls Royce on tried and failed to stop someone turning one of their vehicles into a ute

On the other side there have been some interesting cases recently in the Art world that others are looking at to see if they apply further that basically say your rights as a purchaser are only as the first user and the artist has a right to a portion of any profit made from a future sale. Some have tried to extrapolate this to situations such as this.

Legally you would have to say it is still an open question.

Check your contract. If its like every other software on the planet, you don't own it. You are only buying a license to use it.

Whilst I think a lot of software pricing is just piracy, these guys need to recoup their costs and make a fair profit. What they are charging seems pretty fair to me.

Cheers,
Jon

Originally Posted by AnD3rew

..... it is a barrier to the original purchase if each extra model costs more than half the cost of the original unit..... .

Actually this too, is still pretty reasonable. The tool that this started with (HawkEye) is currently obtainable for around 400AUD, yes?

Of this cost to you, how much of this do you think is software cost vs hardware cost?

In Omitecs case, I suspect that the bulk of this is software cost. The unit is based on the handheld portion of their "commercial" Testbook/T4 unit that the larger workshops and dealers used on these vehicles. Given the number of units sold, and expected to continue to sell, the unit cost for the hardware will have amortised to a reasonably low level. The R&D for the software is where the money went.

If the bulk of the "value" is in this software, asking approximately half the value of the unit for extra functionality i.e. software, is not at all unreasonable. In fact, it represents a good value proposition and does allow the unit to sell very well indeed worldwide.

I'm with you with regard to wanting the best possible bang for my bucks. I'm a cost concious consumer, just like everyone else these days. In this case though I think their sales model is quite good. We Land Rover folk are quite well served for effective tools for electronic diagnosis. Try getting a tool for less than 400AUD to use on your BMW, Mercedes, Audi or Porsche that is as well featured as the HawkEye.

There are tools that can do more, but they generally cost more. It's a pretty simple equation really. I'm not prepared to go down the path of justifying one tool vs another based on feature, function, benefit and cost. That's for around the campfire, some other time.

That's my view anyway.

Cheers,
Iain

Originally Posted by It'sNotWorthComplaining!

Yes your right you buy an unlock code for Discovery 2, it allows you to plug into a V8 and TD5, it works on both.

Nanocom evo on the other hand will only allow 1 engine eg V8 will not work for TD5 without paying again.

That is true up to a point but rather misleading.

If you buy an EVO with V8 or Td5 support, you purchase two licenses, not one.

The first license is for all Non-EMS Modules - SLABS, ACE, SRS, BCU and Autobox. These are unlocked for all Disco 2's and can be used on any D2 regardless of engine type.

The second license is the engine ECU unlock for the engine module you specified. The engine ECU unlock codes are €49, and so if you already have a Evo unlocked for one D2 engine type all that is required is the unlock code for the other engine module.

cheers
Paul

The extra licenses for the nanocom are good value at 49pound each. I'd pay another 50 to 100 dollars for the cruise control function but not 300+ and have a huge unit that I can't run on dash as a gauge module as well.

The faultmate is a great unit but is more of a workshop device given the size.

Originally Posted by OffTrack

That is true up to a point but rather misleading.

If you buy an EVO with V8 or Td5 support, you purchase two licenses, not one.

The first license is for all Non-EMS Modules - SLABS, ACE, SRS, BCU and Autobox. These are unlocked for all Disco 2's and can be used on any D2 regardless of engine type.

The second license is the engine ECU unlock for the engine module you specified. The engine ECU unlock codes are €49, and so if you already have a Evo unlocked for one D2 engine type all that is required is the unlock code for the other engine module.

cheers
Paul

Hi Paul,

Not sure that is correct either, early on when I first purchased our V8 D2a it had ABS faults coming up on a regular basis. Barry (Redback) stopped by our place with his TD5 Nanocom and tried to clear the faults, all it did was clear all the radio codes and left the faults intact. ...

cheers,
Terry