Thread: Regarding the VW fix for the emissions cheating software

so, its all ok Pat??
you seem almost against these companies getting into trouble for choosing money over people,,
regardless of what penalties are involved the OUTCOMES provide what is acceptable to people as to how a company does business.
If you are happy to deal with companies that LIE and CHEAT, thats ok, FOR YOU.
Dont expect to convince me thats a good way to live my life.

Originally Posted by PAT303

Their fine for knowingly supplying faulty airbags was US 25 million,not much for causing the biggest recall in vehicle history,the fine for their seat belt recall cost them a staggering US $50,000,yes fifty thousand dollars.They paid off the courts last year to the tune of 1 Billion dollars in exchange for closing the case,no more convictions,pay outs,compensation etc,they wiped their hands of it.It puts VW's manipulation of a fake emission test into perspective doesn't it?. Pat

Takata Bidders Said to Favor Japan Bankruptcy; Shares Tumble - Bloomberg
"The $1 billion it agreed to pay in the U.S. settlement includes $25 million to the authorities and $975 million to compensate carmakers and people who were injured, according to court papers. While the criminal fine is due within a month, the company doesn’t have to pay the restitution until it’s sold because it can’t afford to pay now."

I would say its exactly the right amount, cant get blood out of a stone and this amount will bankrupt the company.

as for perspective,
lot more blood available at VW,




Volkswagen emissions deception involved executives at highest levels, U.S. lawsuits allege | Financial Post
“The allegations against Volkswagen, Audi and Porsche reveal a culture of deeply rooted corporate arrogance, combined with a conscious disregard for the rule of law or the protection of public health and the environment,” Eric T. Schneiderman, the New York attorney general, said in a statement.

VW is the world's largest automaker and must be required to operate to acceptable standards of corporate behaviour or it will become a threat to democracy.

Originally Posted by Eevo

VW lied to us. thats enough for me.

FFS Eevo , politicians lie to us every day. Neville Chamberlain said there'd be "peace in our time", Bob Hawke said "no child will live in poverty", Little Johnny said there'd "never ever be a GST" and so on and so forth. I'll start worrying when powerful people start telling the truth.

Originally Posted by DiscoMick

VW is the world's largest automaker and must be required to operate to acceptable standards of corporate behaviour or it will become a threat to democracy.

Crikey Mick, you've got to be kidding. This is VW we're talking about here not Adolf Hitler and the burning of the the Reichstag. Someone in VW played games with their testing software to give a misleading result, big deal, the lawyers will have a field day and make a bloody fortune, for the rest of us ................... small beer.

Originally Posted by Sitec

I think we're all forgetting something here... VW as a group is not to blame.. Some numpty who decided it would be alright to make software to adjust the emissions when test equipment is connected is to blame. There would have been a chain of 'management' who knew and were involved, but 99% of the manufacturing workforce, sales and service teams would have no idea. So, tearing 'VW' to shreads probably isn't the best approach, because doing so might just put an awful lot of people out of a job! Yup, its wrong, yup, it shouldn't have happened, yup someone needs their backside kicked, and thats probably happening. There are bigger issues in the world.. China and its pollution, India and its pollution, all the fighting between religeous numptys. Add to that the fact that 50% of the big old lazy diesels here and in Europe pump out all sorts of rubbish (petrols included) and go largely unchecked, America and the muppet that's currently 'running' it is a huge worry. So really, in the grand scheme of things VW's little 'oops' is a fart in a swimming pool.

Finally, a voice of reason and perspective.


'Be careful of high horses .......................... you can fall off and break your neck'


Deano

Originally Posted by DeanoH

FFS Eevo , politicians lie to us every day. Neville Chamberlain said there'd be "peace in our time", Bob Hawke said "no child will live in poverty", Little Johnny said there'd "never ever be a GST" and so on and so forth. I'll start worrying when powerful people start telling the truth.

there is an expectation that politicians lie.

does that same expectation exist for car manufactures other than the salesman?

Originally Posted by DeanoH

FFS Eevo , politicians lie to us every day. Neville Chamberlain said there'd be "peace in our time", Bob Hawke said "no child will live in poverty", Little Johnny said there'd "never ever be a GST" and so on and so forth. I'll start worrying when powerful people start telling the truth.






Crikey Mick, you've got to be kidding. This is VW we're talking about here not Adolf Hitler and the burning of the the Reichstag. Someone in VW played games with their testing software to give a misleading result, big deal, the lawyers will have a field day and make a bloody fortune, for the rest of us ................... small beer.




Finally, a voice of reason and perspective.


'Be careful of high horses .......................... you can fall off and break your neck'


Deano

VW tried to cheat the anti-pollution laws introduced by democratically - elected governments to reduce the pollution caused by businesses, so VW deliberately challenged democracy and the rule of law. So that is a very big deal. Who runs our countries - governments elected by the people or corporate executives who answer only to shareholders?
This is a similar issue to the fact that one-third of Australia's largest companies have rorted the tax system so they don't pay any company tax - none at all.
That means ordinary people have pay more tax or have government support cut, such as false robo-debt demands on pensioners, so the poor suffer because the rich have gone on strike and refuse to contribute to the society which generates their wealth.
So yes, this IS a big deal.

Originally Posted by Pedro_The_Swift

so, its all ok Pat??
you seem almost against these companies getting into trouble for choosing money over people,,
regardless of what penalties are involved the OUTCOMES provide what is acceptable to people as to how a company does business.
If you are happy to deal with companies that LIE and CHEAT, thats ok, FOR YOU.
Dont expect to convince me thats a good way to live my life.

Not at all,I'm providing a different side to the story,plus I really enjoy these discussions.I'm all against corruption,but lets look at it in depth,why was VW able to use cheat software?,why,because they test emissions by sticking the vehicle on a rolling dyno with the back wheels stationary and the front ones spinning at 2200 engine rpm's.Is that an effective way to check emissions?,of cause it's not.VW simply wrote a code that allowed the ECU to recognise when the rear wheels were stopped via the ABS sensors when the fronts were spinning allowing the fuel mixture to then be leaned out and passing the test.Whats the point in fining VW when the test itself is totally bogus?.If we want to get real on emissions lets get real and test vehicles correctly.You are being incredibly nieve if you think VW are the only ones doing it considering every Tom Dick and Harry have done real world tests,I've read quite a few and found VW to average the lowest emissions,if they have the lowest and needed cheat software what are the others doing?. Pat

Of course the test is artificial but all tests have to be standardised so the results can be compared. I see a road driving cycle is being added to make them more real world.
The point is VW gamed the system to cheat and then lied about it. That is unacceptable corporate behaviour.
Governments must reassert control over multinationals or democracy will be undermined and we'll end up as wage slaves of the rich and powerful.