Ineos Grenadier, do you reckon it'll take off?

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Originally Posted by scarry

The Defender rides so much better with the coils.

One of my Sons went from a 2009 110 Puma to a 2019 LC76.
The main difference he notices is the lack of problems,none so far,and the power,and very little cabin noise compared to the Deefer.
He needed a bit more safety for his kids as well.

The Defender advantage,like i said,is the coils all round,with the long travel suspension,it is fantastic.
What a pity the quality control was not fantastic as well.[biggrin]

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It's a long story but I do a couple of trips across the desert each year. Usually with different people.

People are always gobsmacked at the defenders ability to go up rutted sandhills. When everyone else is taking huge runups my defender just walks up everything. We had a driver trainer for the toyota club this year. I stopped near the crest of a hill for someone, and they backed off and I continued from a stop. Afterwards he came up to me and said "That was deeply impressive". My defenders ability in that situation is so good it's comical.

The question is - would the grenadier with front and rear sway bars, and weighing nearly a tonne more be as good? The first video is my wife driving up a hill that I was told "You're going to need a big runup". I was teaching her how to drive. Second vicdeo is my mate trying to get up it.

And this is why I'm stuck with my defender.


https://youtu.be/1zOTZMfu5ag?si=T2vZMEXMH1h_hC1U

https://youtu.be/NtqXgii1MSU?si=cljSZLxIan97hpQM

https://youtu.be/PlMIibskGhw?si=Kl1MorXikHxhLS-g

Just got back from our annual trip to the Limestone Coast.

This time it was in the Grenadier Trialmaster.

I have done this trip in D3, D4, D5 & New Defenders Landrovers as well as LC76 Landcruisers.

This trip was the most enjoyable.

Road element was great, off road was fanatastic.

Lockers are easy to put in - just put it in nuetral & engage, no fuss.

Having 8 speeds available in low range is fantastic

Felt more planted off road than all other trips

Sure there are some negatives i.e. uses more fuel than Defender & D5.

The TPMS is very sensitive to tyre pressure range

1 front parking sensor goes off randomly apparently due to damage from road debris

Yes i did get the service reminder glitch

Dont have all the nanny reminders.

Yes you do have to stop & engage levers for low range & centre difflock but i see this as a positive rather than the car having electronic control of it.

600 km on the way home due to some detours for roads affected by bushfire, but got out feeling relatively fresh & not stiff.

Great long distance cruiser

Seats are amazing.

Plenty of grunt for overtaking

This trip has confirmed whether i will spend the extra dollars on a roof platform & 270 degree awning.

I am relatively lucky to have a great dealer & hour from me but then Landrover is just as far.

There is a new dealer scheduled for Essendon Fields

Do i hope they sort out their dealer model - yes.

BTW - i bought this vehicle at a much lower price than the V8 LC 76 with comparable modifications

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Originally Posted by chuck

Just got back from our annual trip to the Limestone Coast.

This time it was in the Grenadier Trialmaster.

I have done this trip in D3, D4, D5 & New Defenders Landrovers as well as LC76 Landcruisers.

This trip was the most enjoyable.

Road element was great, off road was fanatastic.

Lockers are easy to put in - just put it in nuetral & engage, no fuss.

Having 8 speeds available in low range is fantastic

Felt more planted off road than all other trips

Sure there are some negatives i.e. uses more fuel than Defender & D5.

The TPMS is very sensitive to tyre pressure range

1 front parking sensor goes off randomly apparently due to damage from road debris

Yes i did get the service reminder glitch

Dont have all the nanny reminders.

Yes you do have to stop & engage levers for low range & centre difflock but i see this as a positive rather than the car having electronic control of it.

600 km on the way home due to some detours for roads affected by bushfire, but got out feeling relatively fresh & not stiff.

Great long distance cruiser

Seats are amazing.

Plenty of grunt for overtaking

This trip has confirmed whether i will spend the extra dollars on a roof platform & 270 degree awning.

I am relatively lucky to have a great dealer & hour from me but then Landrover is just as far.

There is a new dealer scheduled for Essendon Fields

Do i hope they sort out their dealer model - yes.

BTW - i bought this vehicle at a much lower price than the V8 LC 76 with comparable modifications

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Interesting.. thanks for your thoughts. I would be interested if you'd tried a similar trip in a classic defender. It's interesting that you compared modern landrovers and you still found the Gren comfortable. If that's the case the Gren would be greatly more comfortable than a classic defender but I don't think there is any great surprise there.

In my car I can unlock and lock all the diff locks on the fly. I can change from low to high very carefully while moving. If you are in an environment where you are changing things a lot I don't want warnings etc. Sometimes you might want to unlock diffs on the fly.. like the front is really handy to be able to unlock if you've got a tough section followed by a turn. Let me do it myself with manual systems, thanks.

Re the prices - modifications are very subjective. Yes people go absolutely nuts with LC's and hose huge sums of money on them. But for every one of those there are probably 10 that leave them relatively stock. In my case there is no way I'd spend the 50k difference in price. Yes I'd buy a few things for the LC and the gren like UHF and some dual battery electronics. But even after spending 130+k on the grenadier it would still need money spent on it that the LC doesn't. Things like larger fuel tanks and GVM upgrade (LC has 1200kg from stock!).

The LC is also nearly 500kg lighter.. which helps on sand.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

It's a long story but I do a couple of trips across the desert each year. Usually with different people.

People are always gobsmacked at the defenders ability to go up rutted sandhills. When everyone else is taking huge runups my defender just walks up everything. We had a driver trainer for the toyota club this year. I stopped near the crest of a hill for someone, and they backed off and I continued from a stop. Afterwards he came up to me and said "That was deeply impressive". My defenders ability in that situation is so good it's comical.

The question is - would the grenadier with front and rear sway bars, and weighing nearly a tonne more be as good? The first video is my wife driving up a hill that I was told "You're going to need a big runup". I was teaching her how to drive. Second vicdeo is my mate trying to get up it.

And this is why I'm stuck with my defender.

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A couple of years ago I went on a trip that included the Border Track (Vic / SA) with some guys I know.

Left the RRC at home. The vehicles were 2x Isuzu twin cabs, Ranger raptor twin cab, Isuzu space cab (maybe Colorado with Isuzu engine), all 4wd.

All I can say is that they're really just work trucks with a transfer case and a front diff. It was remarkable how incapable these things were, especially over sandy swales and sand hills.

On the way back we went over the Goat Tk in the Grampians and it was like some sort of major expedition in these trucks
It's not a hard track by any stretch, every 2wd car I owned before the RRC went over that.

cheers, DL

The LC is also nearly 500kg lighter.. which helps on sand.[/QUOTE]

I only paid $20k over the price of a LC76 & this was for a Trialmaster with Leather, Heated seats & Safari Roof(s) admittedly this was for a current year demo with 3000km

Once you consider just basics for the LC, the $20k makes sense i.e. track correction, all terrains, driving lights,

The LC is lighter but the track difference makes them terrible in Sand, Mud & Rutted Terrain.

I fixed this on both my 76 & 79 when i had them with staggered track offset rims which fixed the problem & improved tracking on b grade bitumen roads as well, however these rims are marketed as of road only, an engineered fix is considerably more expensive

The 850kg load capacity suits my needs so dont need the 1200kg of the LC however a bit more fuel capacity would be nice, did although 600km yesterday & still had just over a quarter of a tank left.

The Grenadier is very good on fuel consumption off road, but at 110km/h its fuel use is quite high due to aerodynamics & weight

The Grenadier has matching tracks & more power & torque.

In addition the 8 speed auto means you dont have to constantly change from high to low when the track condition changes

While i agree that Toyota has a far superior dealer network you still have to wait for parts, the rear door hinges on my 76 broke & i had to wait 3 weeks for them to be fixed under warranty

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Originally Posted by 350RRC

A couple of years ago I went on a trip that included the Border Track (Vic / SA) with some guys I know.

Left the RRC at home. The vehicles were 2x Isuzu twin cabs, Ranger raptor twin cab, Isuzu space cab (maybe Colorado with Isuzu engine), all 4wd.

All I can say is that they're really just work trucks with a transfer case and a front diff. It was remarkable how incapable these things were, especially over sandy swales and sand hills.

On the way back we went over the Goat Tk in the Grampians and it was like some sort of major expedition in these trucks
It's not a hard track by any stretch, every 2wd car I owned before the RRC went over that.

cheers, DL

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The older work utes tended to be oversprung and some had torsion bar front suspension and the early ones had gutless engines. Any Thai made ute in the last 10 years should have romped it in. The best vehicle I have driven in sand is my 2.4 diesel Triton (Super Select II with Terrain Response but honestly I dont need to switch to sand mode and even in high range it is remarkably capable). They are very capable 4wd out of the box but decent bigger bore shocks, a modest lift, good AT tyres and they are really very good. Mind you Mitsubishi traction control has been far better than the other Thai built utes for a long time and it is a number of times better than the traction control in my D2 (admittedly the ute is 20 years newer but Land Rover always had great ETC). Cheers.

Headspace campers are developing a roof conversion camper for the Grenadier.
No info on when it might be in production.

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Originally Posted by TonyC

Headspace campers are developing a roof conversion camper for the Grenadier.
No info on when it might be in production.

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I can’t see how that’s going to work.

Sure, the fitment isn’t a puzzle, But how do they make it even remotely functional and keep it under weight?

Put 2 people in it plus the extra weight of the camper components, throw in a cupboard or 2, a fridge, fuel and you’re done - well over GVM.

Even GVM lifted Troopy and DCs struggle to remain underweight once loaded for even the most mild of trips

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Originally Posted by Tombie

I can’t see how that’s going to work.

Sure, the fitment isn’t a puzzle, But how do they make it even remotely functional and keep it under weight?

Put 2 people in it plus the extra weight of the camper components, throw in a cupboard or 2, a fridge, fuel and you’re done - well over GVM.

Even GVM lifted Troopy and DCs struggle to remain underweight once loaded for even the most mild of trips

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The troopy is nearly 400mm longer than the Grenadier. Would also be quite an expensive thing.

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Originally Posted by chuck

The LC is also nearly 500kg lighter.. which helps on sand.

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I only paid $20k over the price of a LC76 & this was for a Trialmaster with Leather, Heated seats & Safari Roof(s) admittedly this was for a current year demo with 3000km

Once you consider just basics for the LC, the $20k makes sense i.e. track correction, all terrains, driving lights,

The LC is lighter but the track difference makes them terrible in Sand, Mud & Rutted Terrain.

I fixed this on both my 76 & 79 when i had them with staggered track offset rims which fixed the problem & improved tracking on b grade bitumen roads as well, however these rims are marketed as of road only, an engineered fix is considerably more expensive

The 850kg load capacity suits my needs so dont need the 1200kg of the LC however a bit more fuel capacity would be nice, did although 600km yesterday & still had just over a quarter of a tank left.

The Grenadier is very good on fuel consumption off road, but at 110km/h its fuel use is quite high due to aerodynamics & weight

The Grenadier has matching tracks & more power & torque.

In addition the 8 speed auto means you dont have to constantly change from high to low when the track condition changes

While i agree that Toyota has a far superior dealer network you still have to wait for parts, the rear door hinges on my 76 broke & i had to wait 3 weeks for them to be fixed under warranty[/QUOTE]
Do you think the track correction makes that much difference? Really? It's only a factor when you are going absoluely dead straight. if there is even a hint of not straight it's irrelevant. Most sand tracks I drive on are anything but straight, or a heavily rutted. If I bought one I'd save the 50 and keep it pretty stock.

BTW if you bought your grenadier for 20k more than a LC - then that's probably a totally different equation. My main issue with them is they are over priced.