Ineos Grenadier, do you reckon it'll take off?

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Originally Posted by scarry

Which will increase prices,or they may say,we are out of here,as some other brands will inevitably do as well.

In it's current form i doubt NVES will survive anyway.
A backlash from the Auto industry is inevitable.

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It will increase prices in cases where car makers don't have low emissions vehicles in their fleet. Let's not forget that INEOS had an EV 4x4 under development but put it on indefinite hold.

https://www.drive.com.au/news/ineos-...inuing-delays/

The auto industry had a pretty good go at backlash when the NVES came in, and they got it watered down and implementation slowed.

https://www.drive.com.au/news/austra...aker-backlash/

The problem is the car industry is absolutely reliant on the revenue from 4x4 and large SUV's which are cheap to make and can be sold for high prices. They have convinced everyone that they need at least one DC each, for mum, dad and the kids and we're all in.

The problem is the majority of Australians want us to lower emissions and the car industry know that. We need to lower our transport emissions but no one is prepared to sacrifice their right to drive their SUV/4x4. What I find amusing is the hatred for people who are trying to help the situation. People who want to drive 4x4 should be delighted when someone drives an EV as it's more pollution for them! Oh well.

I agree with you. I think that car makers are hoping that when the NVES really starts to bite that they will be able to pressure government to either dismantle the scheme or delay it. What they should be doing is trying to get well priced ev's and economical cars to market. Maybe they have them in the pipeline, but at this point it appears they have just given up and handed that market to the Chinese. So I guess they are hoping for option A. Again oh well.

The stupidity is that if we (as a society) really leant into encouraging EVs and low emissions vehicles, people who actually really needed/wanted a 4x4 could actually continue buying and operating them while we actually meet our targets but alas.

Anyway I don't want to contribute to this thread going down this wormhole! Sorry.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

no one is prepared to sacrifice their right to drive their SUV/4x4.

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Why should we?

Why should we be forced to drive what we don't want to?
And something that does not do the job we need it to do?
Whether it is for commercial or private use.
And how are we going to do the work,as an example,that we do,without utes,and vans?And all the hundreds of thousands of Tradies,farmer,etc,etc,that need these vehicles to earn a living?

What we really need to do is get vehicles off the road,but no,that is in the too hard basket,and no mention from any Govt.
Just imagine the reduction in emissions if we didn't have millions of vehicles idling in traffic congestion most of the day,just in Aus,yet alone world wide.

And FWIW,EV sales increased 1.1% over the last two years in AUS.
No wonder the EV council added sales of PHEVs and HEVs to boost their EV sales figures.[biggrin]

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Originally Posted by scarry

Why should we?

Why should we be forced to drive what we don't want to?
And something that does not do the job we need it to do?
Whether it is for commercial or private use.
And how are we going to do the work,as an example,that we do,without utes,and vans?And all the hundreds of thousands of Tradies,farmer,etc,etc,that need these vehicles to earn a living?

What we really need to do is get vehicles off the road,but no,that is in the too hard basket,and no mention from any Govt.
Just imagine the reduction in emissions if we didn't have millions of vehicles idling in traffic congestion most of the day,just in Aus,yet alone world wide.

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Imagine if all those cars sitting idling in cities across australia weren't actually idling? They were just sitting there. Because they were EV's. [bigwhistle]

And sheesh... pre the 80's pretty much all kids walked to school. Then mum drove them in a laser. Then mum drove them in a Prado, and now mum drives them in a Ranger/Hilux. And how dare anyone force people to drive something they don't want to? And given that's absolutely off the table how are we to possibly say "you all need to leave the car at home"! If you think telling someone that maybe they should consider driving an EV is a bridge too far, imagine how unpopular trying to tell people to leave the car at home is going to be. That's the idea of EV's - it allows us not to continue to continue to live life as we have become accustomed to with lower emissions. Of course, EV's still have most of the problems of normal cars, congestion, safety, storage.

And as I keep saying over and over.. you can't tell people what to do. All we can do is engineer a situation where people are encouraged to make the choices you need them to make. Things like the NVES and EV incentives are part of that.

Unofrtunately city design is largely out of the hands of the feds. Designing walkable cities is largely down to local and state governements. And talk about herding cats. But we need to do this because we're a big country and lots of it is just too big for anything but the car. So we need to get the 75% of people who live in cities to walk, cycle, and catch public transport a bit. And for starters maybe have at least one EV in the family. These things can be done. Bicycles now outnumber cars in the city of London. And remember that the Dutch with the greatest amount of cycling have a great love of cars. They still have cars, they still have recreational and fun cars. They still have commercial vehicles. They just find it easier to ride and take public transport for their trips around town.

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Originally Posted by scarry

And FWIW,EV sales increased 1.1% over the last two years in AUS.
No wonder the EV council added sales of PHEVs and HEVs to boost their EV sales figures.[biggrin]

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Yes that is true, but what you've failied to mention there is they went from 3% in 2023 to 7% in 2024 and 2025. I take the point that they didn't really increase this year. Which I agree isn't good enough if we wish to make climate targets. Meanwhile there is discussion of cutting EV incentives.

https://youtu.be/OunBRdTIe3w?si=2ippzJarB7DmoJ2I

Anyway, what's on the Horizon for Ineos? If Sir Jim gets sick of the project then insolvency I imagine. Best case is another car maker buys the grenadier.

What's on the horizon for Ineos?

I’m confident bikes now outnumber cars because the choice has been removed - ride a bike or starve from taxation.

That’s not choice - that’s coercion.

As for emissions - a Ford Ranger uses less fuel to do the school run than Mums old 4 cyl Cortina did. So parents have a multi-disciple vehicle and are emitting less than they did back in years gone by.

Kids walked to school for sure, there were schools everywhere - now they’re centralised to a region - and there’s greater safety concerns from parents now.

I’m 100% for kids on pushies - it was my youth. But the times they have changed.

We have 3 (until Sunday) full sized LRs - the wife’s is the most frugal, in the 6’s on the highway. The D4 is the worst, it’s kitted for touring and suffers accordingly. The 90 sits somewhere in between. They aren’t the worst offenders out there for tailpipe emissions.

The truck will burn closer to 16l/100km not towing… it is what it is.


I find the statement that “99% of Australians want lower emissions” amusing given recent surveys all pointing to the contrary- people are responding that it’s “not a priority”..

The Green Washing has numbed them to it all. And rightly so, the countries emissions are never going to reduce, they may shift demographic but will continue to increase as a whole.


Anyway, the Grenadier is a great concept, hobbled by regulation, like many manufacturers. It does what it claims out of the box, and isn’t a bad first go.

If they can streamline production, improve QC and potentially claw back the price a little, they’ll slowly hold their niche in the world.

How sad - another good thread on an interesting vehicle turning into a bull**** ideological debate.

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Originally Posted by DiscoDB

How sad - another good thread on an interesting vehicle turning into a bull**** ideological debate.

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Sorry, lets keep this Grenadier.

The Ineos offers.. it was 100k for a Quartermaster Trialmaster last year. now 99k for base and 110 for trialmaster driveaway.

Let's see if they can keep selling them at that price. Not that they disclose sales data...

My Trialmaster wagon in white and with a roo bar is 124k + onroads still.

A landcruiser GXL wagon is 83k Drive away. So close on 50k cheaper still....

Offers | INEOS Grenadier AU

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

A landcruiser GXL wagon is 83k Drive away. So close on 50k cheaper still....

Offers | INEOS Grenadier AU

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And at a guess,a much better resale value.

GXL LC300 is around $121K driveaway,and the updated model has a lot more tech,etc, than it used to.

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Originally Posted by scarry

And at a guess,a much better resale value.

GXL LC300 is around $121K driveaway,and the updated model has a lot more tech,etc, than it used to.

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I take on board that the grenadier is in some ways better than the LC wagon. Leaf springs, uneven track. But in some ways the grenadier isn't as good as the LC. Things like weights etc. The LC has simple buttons for it's difflocks which are included in the GXL. The whole system is simpler and doesn't require three hail mary's and a turn around to engage. If you're spending literally weeks off road like I do the grenadier would drive me nuts. In the words of Kimmi "Leave me alone - I know what I'm doing".

Plus of course the crazy range of accessories for them, and dealers everywhere. Plus Toyota electrics which seem to be trouble free. I would 100% buy the toyota which does not make me happy.

Interestingly I shopped the Toyota VS the Defender when I bought it but went for the defender because it was 20k cheaper and had four doors (no wagon back then just the troopy).

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

Interestingly I shopped the Toyota VS the Defender when I bought it but went for the defender because it was 20k cheaper and had four doors (no wagon back then just the troopy).

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The Defender rides so much better with the coils.

One of my Sons went from a 2009 110 Puma to a 2019 LC76.
The main difference he notices is the lack of problems,none so far,and the power,and very little cabin noise compared to the Deefer.
He needed a bit more safety for his kids as well.

The Defender advantage,like i said,is the coils all round,with the long travel suspension,it is fantastic.
What a pity the quality control was not fantastic as well.[biggrin]