Thread: Another plane down.

Originally Posted by JDNSW

Makes it sound like either pilot incapacitation or pilot suicide. But how to decide which, could be very hard.

John

incapacitation made sense, but, it also appears the plane stalled as there was a decrease in airspeed.

Originally Posted by JDNSW

You may disagree, but the two terms are defined in the Air Navigation Regulations and Air Navigation Orders. And accidents and incidents are not recorded for the purpose of generating statistics, but for the purpose of increasing air safety by finding the causes of accidents ("accidents") and potential accidents ("incidents").

Data collection for accidents is probably pretty complete, because damage is seen or needs to be repaired etc, whereas it is pretty certain that incident reporting is very incomplete, as nobody likes filling out 225s. This means that conflating the two data sets is likely to be misleading, although some incidents could very likely lead to accidents, but did not, simply due to circumstances - for example when the plane I was flying dropped a valve about thirty miles from Wagga; since I was at 9,000ft and still had some power, it meant an emergency landing at an airport, where if I had been climbing over the Great Divide 1500 ft above terrain, the outcome would have been very different.

John

Its also pretty well defined within the scope of the TAM, the 059 and the 053.

Im not talking about the actual events Im talking about the reporting of the statistics

lets say you have 9 incidents of the flangle breaking but since so far its always happened on the ground you haven't had an accident. but its got the potential to cause the plane to fall out of the sky.

you then have one where it causes the plane to have an accident and crash

right up till that point you can quite honestly claim that the breaking of the flangle has not caused n accident.

but lets then say that instead of crashing you had a fantastic pilot who saved the plane, left it reusable and everyone walked away. you then still quite honestly say that the flangle hasnt caused an accident.

generaly speaking big bosses dont worry about "little things" until their OFT has red bits in it. and middle managers love getting their bonuses by doing whtever it takes to keep it taht way.


if the latest news about this stuff turns out to be true and one of the pilots locked the other out of the cockpit Im blaming towel heads and religion. with out the whole "my god says therefore you will because I believe" crap and fanatics there wouldn't be locks on doors, hell some aircraft wouldnt even have he door in the first place and my sons would have a chance o have some of the opportunities I had at his age. Watching the stars on a perfect night from the big seat up the front and being allowed to hold the wheel.

i cant believe the latest news.
it ran through my head as a possibility given the decrease in airspeed but i didnt want to think someone would do that.

its easier to believe it was an accident
quite upset right now

Originally Posted by Eevo

i cant believe the latest news.
it ran through my head as a possibility given the decrease in airspeed but i didnt want to think someone would do that.

its easier to believe it was an accident
quite upset right now

See my post #21

I believe it - and it is not the first one. There have been three or four others previously. Just this is the first one in mainland Europe in an aircraft operated by a major top line airline (even if it was their budget carrier).

John

Originally Posted by JDNSW

See my post #21

I believe it - and it is not the first one. There have been three or four others previously. Just this is the first one in mainland Europe in an aircraft operated by a major top line airline (even if it was their budget carrier).

John

now i feel guilty for shunning your idea.
it happening in the past doesnt make it any easier for the victims.

i can accept mechanical failure for a plane crash (things break), i can accept bad weather for a plane crash (nature at work), i can accept pilot error for a plane crash (we're human after all). that risk is always there.
death by someone elses suicide though...

the passengers death would of been painless and instant, but they would of known for 10min they were going to die. i cant accept that. some probably made phone calls to love ones. imagine getting that call.

Originally Posted by Eevo

the passengers death would of been painless and instant, but they would of known for 10min they were going to die. i cant accept that. some probably made phone calls to love ones. imagine getting that call.

I'm surprised we haven't heard of any calls. I understand a number of passengers on the U.S. aircraft in 2009 made calls after the terrorists hijacked the planes.

Originally Posted by p38arover

I'm surprised we haven't heard of any calls. I understand a number of passengers on the U.S. aircraft in 2009 made calls after the terrorists hijacked the planes.

I heard on the news this morning there were.

Originally Posted by p38arover

I'm surprised we haven't heard of any calls. I understand a number of passengers on the U.S. aircraft in 2009 made calls after the terrorists hijacked the planes.

Reports say there were screams from passengers only a minute or two before impact. Most passengers would have thought it was the mountains getting higher not the plane getting lower until very close, and even if they did realise it was getting lower, would have simply thought it was an ATC level change. It was a controlled descent in calm air.

John