Thread: Airplane on a treadmill

Originally Posted by ramblingboy42

I may be late into this but the aeroplane (not airplane) clearly wont fly in that situation.

It will remain completely stationary unless more engine power is applied or the speed of the conveyor changes.

If the speed of the conveyor matches the input of the aeroplane there will be zero airspeed.

The groundspeed will be high but no lift is being produced by the wings.....see.....the aeroplane is not moving through the air , only rolling on the conveyor using it's engine power to to keep up to the conveyor operator's input......or conversely the conveyor operator is keeping abreast of the pilot's input.

No argument. It won't fly.

Plenty of argument - Of course it will fly. The engines are pulling on the air, the treadmill rolling away merrily underneath the plane has nothing to do with it.

A farmer came up to me many years ago and commented on the aircrafts wheels, they were typical Goodyear's with only lateral grooves. He asked with so much clover on the strip do I get much wheelspin on take off?


Haha, love it!!!

Originally Posted by Homestar

Plenty of argument - Of course it will fly. The engines are pulling on the air, the treadmill rolling away merrily underneath the plane has nothing to do with it.

Sorry to disappoint you, no fly. See above post

Originally Posted by Fourgearsticks

Sorry to disappoint you, no fly. See above post

Nope, it will fly - did you even read the article in the first post? I've seen more than one experiment show it will fly and the physics and math proves it too. The thrust of the engine will push the plane forward creating air speed which causes lift. What's happening at the wheels is irrelevant.

You said it yourself - airspeed is created from the engines and has nothing to do with the wheels. If the wheels had anything to do with flying, they'd be driven like a cars.

Do the math, don't rely on a YouTube video or a TV show.

I concur with homestar, an aerofoil requires airflow to create lift. If enough thrust is given to make the aircraft move forward through the air, then lift will be created.
Picture a float plane on a tidal piece of water, say the plane requires 65knots (airspeed) to lift off...and it is being pushed backward by the tide at 5knots, obviously once the engine(thrust) has pushed the plane to a 'ground speed' of 70knots, it will fly.

Your not arguing the point of the conveyer.
Yes an aircraft WILL fly if you power up the engine and take off, that's what it's supposed to do. An aircraft will not take off if you just spin it's wheels and do not power up the engine. If the moving belt is long enough, the aircraft is not restrained and you use the engine, what normally powers an aircraft to flight then yes an aircraft will take off a moving belt.
To fly an aircraft requires moving air over the entire wing surface above the stall speed then it will fly. That moving air is usually provided by powering up and using thrust to accelerate the aircraft to flight.

An obvious point would be a glider. If you stick a glider on a conveyer it will not take off, it can't.

Gordy's point about float aircraft. They can land in a moving body of water, either with the flow or against it, the aircraft still fly's one way or the other, the only difference being the actual waterspeed touchdown/take off being different.

Taking off or landing into wind or downwind being the same, aircraft still takes off at 60ish knots airspeed no matter what, the groundspeed into wind is less, tailwind more.

So if you lot are right we will be seeing airliners shortly with powered wheels? I'm sure Boeing will be keen to take on some of your vast aeronautical knowledge to help produce the next generation airliners. Perhaps you will go into civil airport construction and help producing the first moving runways?
So who's going to stick a glider on a moving belt and film it flying? Why do gliders waste money on tugs and winches when they could just get a conveyer belt to launch?
No good tomorrow being Sunday you lot will have to wait till Monday to patent all these cracker idea's

You are the only one who thinks the wheels are important. They are only there to reduce the rolling resistance on the ground. They don't make the plane fly.
The plane will take off because the treadmill doesn't affect the thrust from the propeller.

Have you read the question quoted in the original post?
Saying that the treadmill "attempts" to match the speed of the plane is a good way to pose the problem. The treadmill has no effect on the plane.
The plane takes off no matter how fast the treadmill goes.