Thread: Just when you thought the C130 was a large A/C to go Fire Hedgehopping.

Had a DC-10 over here as the first response to the fire last summer!

I wonder how long it takes, and just where they load the 747!

I would be reasonably happy loading a helicopter:

Photos of helicopters refilling at the Saddle Ridge Fire - Fire Aviation

But these fellows can have it all to themselves!

Video of Super Scoopers refilling at Lake Castaic - Fire Aviation

I used to go to work offshore in a Grumman Albatross in another life, and that was more than a handful once it contacted the water!

Here is a video
Boeing 747 Drops Retardant on California’s Valley Fire
Regards PhilipA

Originally Posted by Old Farang

I wonder how long it takes, and just where they load the 747!

I would be reasonably happy loading a helicopter:

Photos of helicopters refilling at the Saddle Ridge Fire - Fire Aviation

But these fellows can have it all to themselves!

Video of Super Scoopers refilling at Lake Castaic - Fire Aviation

I used to go to work offshore in a Grumman Albatross in another life, and that was more than a handful once it contacted the water!

SA Govt. was involved in a Demo of a couple of scoopers that visited Adelaide a number of years ago & they apparently did successful Trials from a couple of reservoirs. The scooping runs were more than adequate bearing in mind the geography of the two Reservoirs, but nothing like as shown in that Video.

Result? A small minded big noise from the Water Supply mob here had the audacity to ask "In the event of a fire who was going to pay for the Water?" Until that point it was free from the heavens. Anyway, it seems the CFS lost interest because of hierarchical (sp?) disagreement within the organisation & so it never eventuated, but they still seem to be quite happy to use bucket drop RW & small fixed wing tankers & "Elvis" type a/c.


Then the Greenies got involved about scooping from either of our two gulfs & the use & effect of Salt Water on land & Forests. Sea scooping would have been ok on calm days but if a bit choppy they would need to load from a reservoir.

In the end it all got tooooo politcal I believe, so never moved forward & now Retardant is the way to go in many cases.


There was even talk that the a/c Wing be integrated in with the RAAF as a National Fleet & shared around as & when required.

But typically nothing ever eventuated.

This is where the scoopers come unstuck most places in Australia. For example, the fire here last summer, the only large body of water within cooee was Burrendong dam. But at the time, Burrendong was at around 1% capacity, and water was reserved for critical uses such as town water. Plus scooping from it would have got far too much in the way of bits of wood etc - when its that low the water is pretty bad - even if there was a long enough run. I think it is up round 30+% now, but we are not expecting a bad fire season this summer.

I'm pretty certain the DC-10 came from Richmond, and would have used Sydney water. The helicopters here used the Macquarie River I believe (the closer Talbragar was dry, as were all the close farm dams). I can't remember where the C-130 was refilling, possibly Dubbo, from town water

This is what frightens me about "scooping":

Air legend's fatal flight

Air legend's fatal flight | Newcastle Herald | Newcastle, NSW

Originally Posted by Old Farang

This is what frightens me about "scooping":

Air legend's fatal flight


Air legend's fatal flight | Newcastle Herald | Newcastle, NSW

I remember when he went. Was it that long ago? Cripes! I can't see an Air Tractor being a suitable Scooper as compared to a "modern" dedicated a/c. I read where it was an AT802 so a fairly tough a/c by all accounts. Whether he had floats fitted I don't know.

Structurally different for a start so I wonder whether the constant & repetitive beating it would have taken played a big part in it's & Col Pay's demise. I have never seen an Accident Report on that incident but no doubt there is one.

Whereas the dedicated a/c were designed from the ground (or water) up. Especially the Air frame.

My informant on the SA Trials said he felt extremely confident & safe as he guided the crew around the Adelaide Hills & Reservoirs scooping & dropping as they went.

He was seated in the centre Jump seat. Due to the local Topography some of the approaches to the drink were at a fairly high angle but they got in and out ok with no problems.


Col Pay.https://www.theage.com.au/national/veteran-pilot-feared-dead-in-lake-crash-20071208-ge6h4n.html

Apparently testing Modifications

Whereas the dedicated a/c were designed from the ground (or water) up. Especially the Airframe

Yes, there are now aircraft designed just for fire fighting, but mostly twin engine and up. The old Piper Pawnee single engine top dressing/spraying aircraft was used very successfully for many years.

I believe Col Pay was testing some new type of "scoop", rather than the airframe.

50th Anniversary of Aerial Firefighting in Australia | Emergency Victoria

https://safecom-files.s3.amazonaws.c...h%20Australia.