Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo68
:o:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::D:D:D:D:D:D
Talk about brick wall brigade...............
Hopefully it might just all sink in:p:p:p
Nuff said....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo68
:o:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::D:D:D:D:D:D
Talk about brick wall brigade...............
Hopefully it might just all sink in:p:p:p
Nuff said....
Like I said many posts back NO manufacturer makes a family 4WD that is a hard edged offroader because 99% don't go offroad.It's no different to the many many threads about electrics and not being able to fix new vehicles in the bush,the days of basic no frills series 3 or county type vehicles is over and so it is with the D4/L200,they are road biased and thats it,build a bridge and get over it,even the defender has gone alittle soft and it's the last of it's breed. Pat
I think the comment on buy a defender is rubbish....I threw my D3 up places fenders dared to tread ;)....in fact where most D3/D4 owners would dare to tread....so I know what it is capable of.
I didn't know Defenders made decisions on where it can and can't drive...;)
I like the D3, and the D4, and have owned a couple of D2's as well - liked them heaps.
However, as Defender owner, your comment above is misguided!
Off road: A Defender TD4 will go anywhere a D3 can go but, a D3 will not be able to go everywhere a Defender TD4 can go.
Just one example was snatching a D4 about 5 times on a Robe trip. While driving ability does come into play, the D4 just spun tyres and bellied out. Doesn't help with a vehicle of the weight.:wasntme:
On road, the D3 rules but I like the truck type drive of the Defender and the Puma is a heap more civilised than previous models a well on road.
I'm not bagging the D3, merely putting a balanced view forward.:)
Quote:
Originally Posted by PAT303
The only soft part of my Defender is the Recaro seats!:p
I don't believe it has gone soft at all compared to previous models....well not soft in a way that limits its ability anyway!:p
Awww doesn't take much to get the fender owners to bite.
This is me chillaxed :D. As for the deluded Fender owner comments :p...out of the box.....with decent tyres....I'd put my money on the D3/D4 over the fender. My stock D3 went up places where fenders struggled. Last weekend 2 Defenders went up same spot as 5 D3's....the D3's made it look easy....the defenders...not so easy.Quote:
Good points! But my comment about a defender is because they have no gagdets/ luxury. They, in my opinion a true raw 4WD and if you want to go 4WD bashing, then you don't need to really worry about looks, rims etc. this is why LR keep this model basic for those that love the bush can have the fun.
Chill-lax Stevo! I think everyone agrees now about the large rims are easy to damage and not as good offroad. Agreed? :angel:
Dorko
Don't get me wrong...I love Defenders and am seriously looking at a late model one as my next vehicle. Not because I think it has better off-road performance....but it is better set up for touring in terms of modifying and adding options to suit being off road...in my book.
The only time I had trouble on sand was when I was a newbie...fully inflated tyres, DSC on, high range......soft soft sand....sunk like a log. Once I knew how to tackle sand....never an issue again. Have taken quite a few D3's on trips with sand...not an issue. I'd say driver ability in this case not the vehicle.Quote:
Just one example was snatching a D4 about 5 times on a Robe trip. While driving ability does come into play, the D4 just spun tyres and bellied out. Doesn't help with a vehicle of the weight.
True if taking into account stock out of shop and tyre options. However shod a D3 with Maxxis Bighorns in a 265/75/17 at around 20-22 PSI....will leave that widdle TD4 in a puddle at the bottom of the hill :p. In all seriousness...a well shod D3 and I would assume a D4.......will go anywhere a defender will. We're in a club with 60+ vehicles,12-20 trips per year, many D3's and Defenders, I see it on a regular basis.Quote:
Off road: A Defender TD4 will go anywhere a D3 can go but, a D3 will not be able to go everywhere a Defender TD4 can go.
In terms of technology etc when it comes to tyres...when will it stop? My point in this isn't a ****ing contest but about the manufacturers and their direction. Look at the D4....for a 4WDer straight off the bat...tyre issues/ 2nd battery issues. New Nissan Patrol......20 inch tyres......poor luddites are rolling over in their graves ;).
Now the picture story :D
Inexperience.....did this to my D3...not weight.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...010/12/634.jpg
Experienced....didnt get stuck once.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...010/12/636.jpg
Bush bashing?
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...011/09/726.jpg
Legal Sized ATR's.....easily have something bigger.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...011/05/972.jpg
Tracks around Coffs
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...10/04/1079.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...10/11/1082.jpg
Then you see what can be done from the likes of Gordon and some of the others with D3's. So I heartily disagree that a well shod D3 couldn't go where a Defender can out of the box.
As for having a range to suit and not finding something that will tick all the boxes...absolutely agree. However...shouldn't there be some staple requirements? They are building 4WD's not lifted station wagons. There should be considerations...maybe not in the RR class as that is clearly not aimed at the off-road/ touring crew...but the defender and Discovery is. Maybe like Mercedes...they have the road warrior friendly offering and then they offer the same vehicle with an off road package.
Regards
Stevo
Sorry to be slow on the uptake but we can all probably believe a "well shod" D3 could go everywhere a Defender could, in fact Ive read here that some reckon it could go further.
However isn't the problem being discussed here is the ability to and cost of getting your D3/4 well shod and now it's got even harder for the D4 now they've gone to 19" rims?
I expect my next car in a few years time will be a low km 2nd hand MY10 or 11 D4 but I want to tour regularly in the Kimberley and Pilbara and shredding tyres and butchering rims is not something I'm keen on. Am I over-reacting to what I'm reading here?
Fascinating discussion.
As one who doesn't have a lot of experience in this area, I was just wondering if it is possible to get a tyre that is a bit wider than spec but that will still fit on the same rims. that would give a bit more sidewall height and also protrude out pat the rims a bit and so protect them. Is this possible and would it help? Is there enough room in the wheel arches.?
It does seem to me to be pretty restrictive to only be able to have 19 inch rims and not have the option of going smaller. but there must be a way around the problem
Willem
What have I started :eek:
Anyway I find it funny that everyone is complaining about the 19 inch rim option and saying the 18 is better and the 17 even better again given tyre options and sidewall height. Yes you get more sidewall height with the smaller rim, however I am yet to find an MTR for my 18 inch rims on my D3 but I can get one in 19...
I just read the article that started this and the D4 was on 19'' rims with 55 profile tyres yet the 200 was on 18'' with 60 so unless I'm missing something there is bugger all difference,going by the photo's the 200 would damage it's rims/tyres just as easily.They found the D4 to be better in every way,I don't think the 200 got a single tick except for right at the last paragraph they said the 19'' rims were no good.Seems to me that nobody can find anything wrong with the D4 so they had to nitpick about 1'' of rim. Pat
BFG in a KM2 has an 18 inch rim. Mate has them on his D3....huge improvement over anything else I have seen for an 18.....and 9/10 times does the job really well. Though sidewall when aired down over rocky terrain can be an issue....already peeled one off the rim. Though at least you are getting an LT construction.Quote:
Originally Posted by trobbo
I think one needs to also take into account legal and non legal. Can get some big rubber on 18's, ie an MTZ
325/60R18LT10124N9-12844325/65R18LT10127N9-12884275/70R18LT (33/11.50R18LT)10125Q7-9848305/60R18LT (33/12.50R18LT)10121Q8.5-11828305/70R18LT (33/12.50R18LT)10126Q8-10892
Regards
Stevo