Thread: P plates no high-powered cars

In NSW (and, from the sounds, SA), a P plate driver cannot drive a LR County V8. However, he/she can drive a current Defender - about 50% more power, essentially the same vehicle!

The problem with specifying a maximum power/weight ratio is that if it was set low enough to have the slightest impact, it would exclude virtually every car currently on the market. The power/weight ratio of ordinary cars has increased to levels which twenty years ago would rarely be seen off the racetrack. And, of course, has nothing to do with the number of cylinders.

The reality is that road deaths and injuries by any reasonable standard (per km, per vehicle or per head) have been decreasing virtually ever since record keeping started, and are now (give or take year to year fluctuations) not only the lowest they have ever been, but we are now in the position that further decreases are getting very hard. And road trauma as a cause of death and injury is now well behind many other preventable causes, none of which attract the same attention. For example, suicide now exceeds road trauma as a cause of death, and in rural areas is many times higher. Yet mental health attracts little attention.

The continued decrease in road trauma has shown only two significant rapid decreases that can be associated with safety initiatives - those associated with compulsory seat belt legislation and with random breath testing. In my view, apart from these, the continuing decline is largely a result of improvements in roads, and improving driver attitudes (this in turn mainly due to education). My view is that improvements in vehicle crash safety and indeed other improvements such as ABS brakes have largely been counterbalanced by the concomitant insulation of the driver from the road and vehicle behaviour. If you look at various statistics on road deaths, two interesting points stand out - drivers over 0.05 are about thirty times more likely to end up dead than ones that are not, and of vehicle occupants killed in road accidents, around a third were not wearing seat belts, compared to an almost negligible number detected not wearing seat belts detected in police checks. Compare this to WA statistics that showed no correlation between the number of cylinders, or indeed the power weight ratio, of the vehicles involved in fatal accidents with P plate drivers.

To my mind, this does not support the new SA rules (nor the existing ones in other states). If it is desired to further reduce road deaths below the already record lows, then the figures suggest that the most effective way to do this would be by reducing drink driving rather than technical restrictions. Even more effective would be better roads (freeways have accident rates way below roads with two way traffic, despite usually having higher speed limits and a lot more traffic!) - but this is very expensive. I have little faith in driver testing or training - the major problem is not skill, but attitude.

John

Originally Posted by Thommo

OK Folks, it gets even sillier............

I just got off the phone from discussing the matter with the RAA in consultation with their legal department. Are you ready for this!!!!!!

My Daughter soon to get her "L's" will be allowed to learn to drive in my V8 D1, She can even sit for her license in my V8 D1, if she fails her test and stays on a Learners Permit she can drive the V8 D1 home but if she should pass her test then she will not be permitted to drive the V8 D1 home on her P1 License.
The RAA tell me that they advised the Government not to make the mistakes of other states and recommended a power to weight ratio restriction. But obviously the bureaucrats know better than the peak motoring organisation!

This is such a ridiculous situation...........
Now when I am on a holiday with the family and trying to avoid fatigue during a long trip I can not allow my daughter to drive the car she learnt in

I am seething about this, just about to start writing letters to those who think they know better.

Crap isn't it. The joke of it all is that we pay these no-brainers from the public purse.

Originally Posted by Thommo

My Daughter soon to get her "L's" will be allowed to learn to drive in my V8 D1, She can even sit for her license in my V8 D1, if she fails her test and stays on a Learners Permit she can drive the V8 D1 home but if she should pass her test then she will not be permitted to drive the V8 D1 home on her P1 License.

That is one piece of legislation that aint worth the paper its **** on!

Originally Posted by JDNSW

<snip> I have little faith in driver testing or training - the major problem is not skill, but attitude.

John

I don't disagree with most of your post John. But I do disagree about the training bit. Today we are training young drivers with the same bad habbits as their parents. Kids have seen the bad habbits of their parents all their lives and apart from that minimal chance of intervention when they are being examined, once they have a licence they will continue to replicate and exaggerate the bad habbit of their parents.

How many times have we seen learner drivers being allowed to straddle unbroken lines when driving down narrow suburban streets. The learner driver hogging the RH lane on freeways because their parents hog the right lane etc etc etc.

These are the habbits we need to break and only when they are being taught do we have the chance.

Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

I think that the first thing that should happen is that no parent or direct relative should be able to teach someone to drive. All people instructing learner drivers should be approved as an instructor whether they be professional driving schools or otherwise.

Obviously this would be pushed by professional driving schools - but there are many families where this would cause real financial hardship, and as pointed out in my other post, with road trauma levels already at record lows, is this really justified? We already have the ludicrous situation where a person can get a full (not provisional) pilot's licence in less than half the practice time than they are required to have to get a restricted driving licence. And as I pointed out in my other post, the problem is not skills, but attitude. While I can see the advantage of a few hours of professional training to start, I have grave doubts whether most driving professionals are any better than parents. And consider the fact that many companies are finding that they have to test applicants for jobs involving ticketed skills simply because the tickets are too widely available for purchase!

Then we should improve the roads, so people are far less likely to have crashes and lastly drivers should expect to get pulled over for breaches of driving and vehicle condition laws and regulations.

Agree entirely - road conditions are the biggest influence on accident probability, probably followed law enforcement. But a precondition would seem to be sensible laws - and some aren't.

It is absurd that someone can't drive a 3.5 litre V8 Range Rover etc, because of the V8 ban when there are vehicles with far greater power to weight ratios that are legal for a P plater to drive.

Or as I pointed out in the other post - it is absurd that someone can't drive a County V8 but can the much more powerful Puma. But as I also pointed out there - a power/weight ratio restriction is not on, because to be meaningful, it would have to include virtually every car on the market.

John

John

I didn't say that all driving instruction should be done by professional driving schools.

I did however suggest that anyone teaching should be accredited to do so.

Bad drivers produce bad drivers. It is the abnormal rearing cycle translated to the roads.

So if "uncle" Bob that went to tech with dad, has a driver instructor certificate then they can teach the kids to drive, same with coach Mary from the Netball team or Scout/Guide leader Dorothy. I just don't think we should allow every generation of new drivers to learn the unfettered bad habbits of the last generation of bad drivers.

It has nothing to do with what car you drive or how much driving instruction you have had.They could be the best driver in the world.If they want to go and race or do burnouts or drift around corners they will do it anyway.Peer pressure has alot to do with it?Scare tactics work good, before and after pics maybe?Like all those safety courses we go to.

Originally Posted by Matman

It has nothing to do with what car you drive or how much driving instruction you have had.They could be the best driver in the world.If they want to go and race or do burnouts or drift around corners they will do it anyway.Peer pressure has alot to do with it?Scare tactics work good, before and after pics maybe?Like all those safety courses we go to.

Ok, so there's "driver instruction" and "driver education".
But really, both are important.
I think what you may be referring to though (re burnouts) is attitude.
Very hard to educate or make laws about bad attitude.