Thread: Sixty Minutes- Boer War this Sunday

Originally Posted by digger

MMM so when you met did Harry know you were from a criminal background ?!!!

digger

yep I have a criminal past ..2 convicts plus Peter...1 stole a loaf of bread and we can not find out what the other did to deserve deportation.....As they say you can pick your friends but not your relatives

Mrs hh

Originally Posted by digger

MMM so when you met did Harry know you were from a criminal background ?!!!

In ADELAIDE the Boer War monument doesnt have Morant or Hancocks name on it but there is a push for them to be recognised on the grounds they volunteered and went (not so much for the recognition of their indescretion!)
In RENMARK SA there is a bar in the hotel called "The breakers bar" where shortly before he left "Breaker" Morant rode in and allowed by the high ceilings did horse tricks (incl. rearing the horse up onto its hind legs whilst he was on it!!)

Im working but will see if we can get it to record...

Cheers....
Digger


As an aside relating to the sentencing to death side of things, I just reread a book called QUINNS POST about Quinns Post at Gallipoli.(surprise that really!)

In it there was an "example' made of a NZ soldier who through exaustion fell asleep in the front line and was caught 'sleeping at his post' (due to the illness and shortage of numbers this allegedly was not uncommon). Deceiding to make an example the NZ court martialled him just behind the lines at QUINNS POST and he was sentenced to death. The AWM have aphoto of troops assembled to witness this sentencing. He was returned to the line to await his execution and within a day took part in another senseless charge from Quinns towards the enemy trenches about 40 yards away where, thankfully in a way, he was killed by enemy fire.

The examples of these things are also something that detracts from the overall example set by our forces, as it concentrates our attention away from the others service.

In the end, they volunteered, they went, they fought for our nation/s and died because of their service, the idea that their name should not be any memorial with the names of those others who lost their lives as it would be disrespectful to their memory and honour I think is ludicrous, I'm pretty sure if they could have been asked, those other fallen would have been in favour of ALL being remembered.

But it was another time and very old 'codes' of behaviour and discipline were in place...


digger

When Kitchener was touring Australia before the First World War, the Bastard refused to lay a wreath at a Boer War Monument in Breakers home town because it had Breakers name on it. The town fathers were instructed to remove his name so that "butcher" Kitchener could lay his wreath, they did so, but they later restored his name.
Kitchener and Haig were responsible for the slaughter of Allied Forces in WW1, so Breakers crime sort of pales in comparison, I hope there is a Hell and they (Kitchener and Haig) are rotting there for all Eternity, Regards Frank.

Originally Posted by Tank

When Kitchener was touring Australia before the First World War, the Bastard refused to lay a wreath at a Boer War Monument in Breakers home town because it had Breakers name on it. The town fathers were instructed to remove his name so that "butcher" Kitchener could lay his wreath, they did so, but they later restored his name.
Kitchener and Haig were responsible for the slaughter of Allied Forces in WW1, so Breakers crime sort of pales in comparison, I hope there is a Hell and they (Kitchener and Haig) are rotting there for all Eternity, Regards Frank.

Tank it was the name of Lt. Peter Hancock that Kitchener objected to being on the monument,Breakers was never there.I just finished reading Breakers life history and it was mentioned in that.The "powers " just gave into Kitchener' s bleating' s.However someone at a later date added the name to one side of the monument.Are we talking about the same monument maybe yours is another.The book I was reading came from the Ipswich Library so I might get it out again just to check my facts.Cheers.
Kitchener was to open the monument when he objected.

I remember driving back from nsw listening to the radio and Darren Coggan was being interviewed about an album called "War Stories"

He talked about each song and sang each song too, 18 songs about the everyday soldier.........

"The official history of war paints us a big simple picture;this battle,that country,this date.Unfortunately,in this big picture version of our history there is never any time to hear about the smaller stories.Ironically it is the smaller stories that can tell us a great deal about that big picture.
These songs are about some of those small stories that make war more personal,more human.I truly hope you enjoy "War Stories" and take the time to reflect on what is such a defining part of who we are as a nation today".......Darren Coggan

Needless to say the following day I purchased the cd, it's a very moving album and educational too.
Song number three is "Bathurst 1910", a song about Lord Kitchener visiting Bathurst,the home town of Peter Handcock,whose wife and children still lived there. Kitchener refused to unveil a new war memorial until Handcocks name had been removed from the list of the fallen.Handcocks wife had to be restrained at the opening because she insisted on bringing her children to meet the man who had wrongly executed their father, and now had the hide to remove his name from the honour roll.
Her protests were in vain and she and her children were turned away,distraught and in tears.

A cd worth buying

Originally Posted by jerryd

I remember driving back from nsw listening to the radio and Darren Coggan was being interviewed about an album called "War Stories"

He talked about each song and sang each song too, 18 songs about the everyday soldier.........

"The official history of war paints us a big simple picture;this battle,that country,this date.Unfortunately,in this big picture version of our history there is never any time to hear about the smaller stories.Ironically it is the smaller stories that can tell us a great deal about that big picture.
These songs are about some of those small stories that make war more personal,more human.I truly hope you enjoy "War Stories" and take the time to reflect on what is such a defining part of who we are as a nation today".......Darren Coggan


Needless to say the following day I purchased the cd, it's a very moving album and educational too.
Song number three is "Bathurst 1910", a song about Lord Kitchener visiting Bathurst,the home town of Peter Handcock,whose wife and children still lived there. Kitchener refused to unveil a new war memorial until Handcocks name had been removed from the list of the fallen.Handcocks wife had to be restrained at the opening because she insisted on bringing her children to meet the man who had wrongly executed their father, and now had the hide to remove his name from the honour roll.
Her protests were in vain and she and her children were turned away,distraught and in tears.

A cd worth buying

How could the organisers have allowed this.They should have thrown Kitchener out. Breaker Morant was only following a verbal order from Kitchener which the same man would not own up to.The whole trial was a farce .Worth reading the book I'll try and get the name and it's publisher.

Originally Posted by Disco44

Tank it was the name of Lt. Peter Hancock that Kitchener objected to being on the monument,Breakers was never there.I just finished reading Breakers life history and it was mentioned in that.The "powers " just gave into Kitchener' s bleating' s.However someone at a later date added the name to one side of the monument.Are we talking about the same monument maybe yours is another.The book I was reading came from the Ipswich Library so I might get it out again just to check my facts.Cheers.
Kitchener was to open the monument when he objected.

You are probably right, I am just recalling from my memory, it came up in a doco on telly once, Regards Frank.

Originally Posted by Tank

The one good thing that came from that farce of a Court martial, was that never again could a British Army put to death an Australian soldier, Regards Frank.

They didn't in the Morant and Hancock case either

They like all "Australian" troops in that conflict were there as COLONIAL soldiers under British command. Australia didn't have an army back then.

While the executions caused quite an outrage in Australia when they became known (some time after the event) it wasn't until later that AUstralian soldiers were protected from capital punishment for army "crimes" such as desertion and so on.

I havea book here called 'Shoot straight You bastards" which is a FANTASTIC read. Really gets into the whole episode, the trial, the background of the case allowing a wider understanding of the issues, ther personailities involved, the politics involved and so on.

Bleszynski, Nick (2002), 'Shoot Straight, You Bastards': The True Story Behind The Killing of 'Breaker' Morant. Random House Australia. ISBN 1-74051-081-X.

Highly recommended.

Also the book by their co-accused who received a jail sentence - George Witton.

Witton, George (1907) republished in (1982). Scapegoats of the Empire. Angus & Robertson. ISBN 0-207-14666-7.

.

Breaker Morant was only following a verbal order from Kitchener which the same man would not own up to.(disco44)
Just a thought but we didnt let the Japs or germans use that excuse we hung or shot them and i dont think breaker ever got to talk to Kitchener personally so the verbal order was given to morant by someone else not much arguent about what they did as they admitted to the killings so forgetting the british part was the death penalty right or wrong at the time?