- RANT - HID low beam conversions

I was cut off by a little import fellow in a ****box despite having right-of-way, flashed him several times (yes, using 4 HID main beams), next thing I hear all four lock up and the bastard has chucked an u-turn and starts pursuing me:D. There's enough violence and BS in Melbourne as it is, I don't flash any more, I like being alive better than stabbed/shot at the hands of a sooky moron.

Even if you can't make out the type of car, many people would still have inhibitions about aggressive main beam/horn use.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by discowhite

can someone point me in the direction of the legistation/regulations reguarding the use of xenon/HID/gas discharge lighting please.

ive just had a quick look at ADR67, 13 and 19, couldnt really find what im looking for, RTA website also zip for ''HID'' ''gas discharge'' or ''xenon''

cheers phil

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from this other thread is this post

Quote:

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Originally Posted by slug_burner

JDNSW,

You have done the hard work and found the relevant ADR.

ADR 13 relevant bits to the current question.

snip .....

6.2.6.1. Vertical orientation
6.2.6.1.1. The initial downward inclination of the cut-off of the dipped-beam to be set
in the unladen vehicle state with one person in the drivers's seat shall be
specified within an accuracy of 0.1% by the manufacturer and indicated in a
clearly legible and indelible manner on each vehicle close to either headlamp
or the manufacturer's plate by the symbol shown in annex 7.
The value of this indicated downward inclination shall be defined in
accordance with paragraph 6.2.6.1.2.
6.2.6.1.2. Depending on the mounting height in metres (h) of the lower edge of the
apparent surface in the direction of the reference axis of the dipped-beam
headlamp, measured on the unladen vehicles, the vertical inclination of the
cut-off of the dipped beam shall, under all the static conditions of Annex 5,
remain between the following limits and the initial aiming shall have the
following values. For category N3G (off-road) vehicles where the
headlamps exceed a height of 1,200mm, the limits for the vertical inclination
of the cut-off shall be between:
-1.5% and -3.5%. The initial aim shall be set between : -2% and -2.5%:
h < 0.8
limits:between -0.5% and -2.5%
initial aiming:between -1.0% and -1.5%
0.8<h<1.0
limits:between -0.5% and -2.5%
initial aiming:between -1.0% and -1.5%
or, at the discretion of the manufacturer,
limits:between -1.0% and -3.0%
initial aiming:between -1.5% and -2.0%
The application for the vehicle type approval shall, in this case, contain
information as to which of the two alternatives is to be used.
h > 1.0
limits:between -1.0% and -3.0%
initial aiming:between -1.5% and -2.0%
The above limits and the initial aiming values are summarized in the
diagram below:

percentage vs height diagram not pasted if interested follow this link and go to pg 32


6.2.6.2. Headlamp levelling device
6.2.6.2.1. In the case where a headlamp levelling device is necessary to satisfy the
requirements of paragraphs 6.2.6.1.1. and 6.2.6.1.2., the device shall be
automatic.
6.2.6.2.2. However, devices which are adjusted manually, either continuously
or non- continuously, shall be permitted, provided they have a stop positon
at which the lamps can be returned to the initial inclination defined in
paragraph 6.2.6.1.1. by means of the usual adjusting screws or similar
means.
These manually adjustable devices must be operable from the driver's seat.
Continually adjustable devices must have reference makes indicating
the loading conditions that require adjustment of the dipped-beam.
The number of positions on devices which are not continuously adjustable
must be such as to ensure compliance with the range of values prescribed in
paragraph 6.2.6.1.2. in all the loading conditions defined in Annex 5.
For these devices also, the loading conditions of Annex 5 that require
adjustment of the dipped-beam shall be clearly marked near the control of
the device (see Annex 8).
6.2.6.2.3. In the event of a failure of devices described in paragraphs 6.2.6.2.1. and
6.2.6.2.2., the dipped-beam shall not assume a position in which the dip is
less than it was at the time when the failure of the device occurred.


6.2.9. Other requirements
The requirements of paragraph 5.5.2. shall not apply to dipped-beam
headlamps. Dipped-beam headlamps shall not swivel according to the angle
of lock of steering. Dipped-beam headlamps with gas-discharge light sources
shall only be permitted in conjunction with the installation of headlamp
cleaning device(s) according to Regulation No. 45.4/ In addition, with
respect to vertical inclination, the provision of paragraph 6.2.6.2.2. shall not
be applied when these headlamps are installed.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by roverrescue

I 'spose it is friday night so Ill keep this going!!!

You made some fair points BMKal, let me address them, but firstly Id be guessing your attention to detail regarding other drivers would be the exception not the rule...

1/ light source same location in reflector - your point makes perfect sense... Id say your average bloke wouldnt spend too much time with shims etc to get it right?

That's certainly true, but if you get the right globes, you shouldn't need shims. I lined my globes up against standard H4 globes and checked that the gas tube in the HID globes was in the same position relative to the base plate of the globe and the "visor" (don't know if that's the correct term, but the bit that deflects all light to the top half of the reflector when using low beam), and didn't need any shims. I'm not sure if they are all like that, but would assume that if they are designed to replace a H4 globe, they should be (unless they really are cheap rubbish).


2. The lights should be kept clean ... maybe this is part of my problem, the vehicles that got on my goat were all in touring duty which equals dust and dirty lenses. This would also be the reason the ADR has the stipulation for cabin levelling or washer jets.

Disco does have washing jets, but I would question their value for cleaning the lights. I read somewhere that they are actually more useful for removing snow (don't get that in Kalgoorlie). I've always been pretty fussy about clean lights and windscreen when travelling at night - can't stand driving with poor vision for any reason. :D

3. The lights should be adjusted slightly lower... good on you for getting it right, once again the average joe probably doesnt bother. Just whacks em in and then cruises around wanting everyone to look and admire.


Yep - there are plenty of them out there. But I probably see just as many with conventional globes and poorly adjusted headlights, or around here, only one headlight working. I don't know if it's just me, but I can't drive a vehicle in that condition.

4. I have found that you should probably not go for higher than about 3600k globes... I have no experience with buying HID lamps but the three fourbies in my rant all had very blue bright low beams. I also noted after flashing them and getting a blast back that all three had similar blue tinted high beams and spots. I guess the owners went with "as bright and blue as I can get"


The correct wattage and kelvin rating shows a very white light, and does not appear blue at all. But as you say, there are plenty out there who will always go for "as bright and blue as I can get". There's another 4WD forum that quite a few members from here frequent where it seems to be the popular thing to go for the highest wattage and bluest lights money can buy - you can tell them until you're blue in the face that this in fact doesn't give them any better light, but you can't convince them. As soon as you start to go away from white light, your efficiency reduces, but glare increases.

5. You should definitely NOT use HID conversions if you load up the rear of your vehicle (heavy loads or towing)... once again the rant was about touring vehicles, maybe when punting around town the lights would be okay?

Possibly, but common sense should tell people that if they are intending loading up their vehicle, then their lights should be adjusted for the load. Nothing annoys me much more than some tool in a Dunnydoor with a sagging arse towing a clapped out caravan, and the headlights pointing skywards, whatever the globes - they usually get "lit up" when they're approachine me. :twisted:

And as to comments about candles - as I said I like bright lights and try to optimise them for my safety... I have even contemplated running a small say 55W spot that is angled low and very wide nearside with the low beams such that when dipping for passing cars there is at least some light out into the grader grass?

Aaaahhh .......... but then you'll probably have the anti-fog-light brigade after your blood. As soon as they see more than two headlights on low beam, they'll automatically think you've got one of the dreaded fog lights turned on. :p

Anyways... thatll do!
S

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by MacMan

If your standard lights are not good enough and you need converted HID main beams, I'd say you're not driving to the conditions.

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You obviously don't get in much practice driving out in the bush mate. ;)

Try driving 600km at night from Kal to Perth, of which probably about 400km is well known for roos and other nasties, on standard Disco headlights. Ever driven an early VW Beetle ? Not a lot of difference. :D

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Originally Posted by isuzubob

Perhaps you've never been flashed because your lights are actually adjusted too low?

Rob W

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Quite possibly Rob. But I can still see much better with them, on both high and low beam, than I could previously with halogen globes fitted - and I tried all the different halogen globes on offer with little improvement.

The reason that I adjusted them to where they are was specifically because they were annoying to oncoming traffic when adjusted higher. The night they were installed, I got about 2 blocks on a test drive and had to sneak home on the parkers - everyone was flashing me. If I had been unable to adjust them to a point where they were of benefit without annoying others, I would have removed them.

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Originally Posted by BMKal

You obviously don't get in much practice driving out in the bush mate. ;)

Try driving 600km at night from Kal to Perth, of which probably about 400km is well known for roos and other nasties, on standard Disco headlights. Ever driven an early VW Beetle ? Not a lot of difference. :D

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Which is precisely why I have some additional spots wired in to the high beam circuit. I was spending plenty of time in kangaroo country and quickly found the standard lights abysmal, even on high beam. But we're not talking high beam HIDs in the sticks here - this is about peanuts who have HID inserts in regular headlights in case of rampaging killer pigs, roos and rhinos in outer suburban round abouts. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by slug_burner

from this other thread is this post
6.2.9. Other requirements
The requirements of paragraph 5.5.2. shall not apply to dipped-beam
headlamps. Dipped-beam headlamps shall not swivel according to the angle
of lock of steering. Dipped-beam headlamps with gas-discharge light sources
shall only be permitted in conjunction with the installation of headlamp
cleaning device(s) according to Regulation No. 45.4/ In addition, with
respect to vertical inclination, the provision of paragraph 6.2.6.2.2. shall not
be applied when these headlamps are installed.

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where exactly did this come from??
the current ADR13/00 (not any superceeded document) looks like this.

current ARD13/00

6.2.9. Other requirements
The requirements of paragraph 5.5.2. shall not apply to dipped-beam headlamps.
Dipped-beam headlamps with a light source or LED module(s)
producing the principal dipped beam and having a total objective
luminous flux which exceeds 2,000 lumen shall only be installed in
conjunction with the installation of headlamp cleaning device(s)
according to Regulation No. 45. 9/
With respect to vertical inclination the provisions of paragraph 6.2.6.2.2.
above shall not be applied for dipped-beam headlamps:
(a) with LED module(s) producing the principal dipped beam, or
(b) with a light source producing the principal dipped beam and having an objective luminous flux which exceeds 2,000 lumen.
Only dipped-beam headlamps according to Regulations Nos. 98 or 112 may be used to produce bend lighting.
If bend lighting is produced by a horizontal movement of the whole beam or the kink of the elbow of the cut-off, it shall be activated only if the vehicle is in forward motion; this shall not apply if bend lighting is produced for a right turn in right hand traffic (left turn in left hand traffic).

looks a bit different to your quote?

now i just have to work out the conversion from lux to deg k..:)

cheers phil

I thought lux had to do with the amount of light being emitted over an area; and degrees K was colour temperature (similar to heating something up to that temperature and that's what it would glow at); so the two were not really comparable. ;)

Some of the hoons in older cars have been geting defect notices, for having HID lights that were not fitted as standard. Probably Queensland Police Force, sorry, Service, can only find the one fault.

G'day Folks :)

Interesting read this,but here in Qld one of the main problems is wrongly adjusted lights and the lack of policing of it :( even with standard sealed beams, a major problem is vehicles that have been accident repaired,as long as both lights "light" and there is 2 beams, doesn't matter if one is on High and the other Low,"they work mate" send it out of the panel beaters door, "Job Done" next job, and joe motorist goes down the road with dangerous lighting :mad: that, and country roads would be a major contributing factor to vehicle accidents, both multi car of single vehicle accidents.


How often have you been dazzled by "1 on High & 1 on Low" :(;)


my .02 cents worth

Wow this is a complete turn around, It wasn't so long ago a lot of us were contemplating a Group buy on HID kits. Seems good now it fell through as we would have wasted our $$:o

I respectfully disagree.
Our town is full of HID converted vehicles.
Only vehicles that cause issues is the poorly adjusted ones.
Most don't dazzle but are noticeably brighter.

Don't forget as we age our eyes change too.

Most of the local 4wd club run HID conversions without issue.