6x6 drive and suspension

**wagoo** · 3rd March 2011, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

Dropped one of my RRc for service at Coopers today and had a chance to talk to Ward.

JRA imported two UK 6X6 variants for testing prior to initial build for the Perentie trials. They were both TACR:

one a Range Rover TACR 6X6 had coil springs and three Rover diffs. The second axle assembly had a rover diff, with a second diff nose and pinion mounted at the rear. This drive to the rear axle therefore went pinion->crownwheel->pinion->prop shaft->rear diff/axle.
The second Land Rover/Defender TACR had leaf suspension and drive with a system as described earlier in this thread. The leaf springs were not load sharing.

Both vehicles were designed for airfield mobility, did not articulate well off road and the systems were abandoned in favour of the locally designed and built system in the 6X6 Perenties we know now.

The astonishing thing is that JRA even bothered to import and trial those two vehicles.
The 2 pinion idea is rubbish. Virtually impossible to set up correctly, and with a 36'' axle spacing would give a coupling propshaft only 15'' long. No wonder it didn't articulate very well.
The second vehicle sounds a bit like the Sandringham 6. Aside from no load sharing, the first rear axle was moved forward to a location under the 109 chassis where there was virtually no space for suspension uptravel anyway. A brilliantly thought out conversion it wasn't.
Wagoo.

Edit.When I was talking to Geoff Stubbs, one of JRAs product development guys back in the 80's, while the 6x6 was being developed, he told me that the front diff originally was a shot peened 4.7:1 Rover type crown wheel and pinion model that failed in the last days of prototype testing. the Oerlikon crownwheel and pinion was a direct replacement for the Rover set and fitted into the Rover diff housing, and was always only intended for the Perentie front end, not the rear bogie.

Edit 2. Is 123Rovers 6x6 still under construction, or has it been completed? Reason for asking is that there is no propshaft fitted to BW diff in photo.

**isuzurover** · 3rd March 2011, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by isuzurover

You are right - no listing for an "11-bolt".

Bill is probably right, but a model number would help you with parts. I have posted here ID these axles please! (Borg-Warner???) - Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board
Hope that is OK? We will see what turns up.

Do you know what spline count the axles are? Is there a serial/BOM number on the axle casing? (BOM numbers are Dana only, but borg warner may have a similar number).

I just found this site:
SAA Website

This may explain why Borg Warner diffs seem only to be fitted to AU vehicles

123rover - you may with to contact them directly - they may have info on your diffs.

Or maybe BTR/ION

Tuesday, April 9, 2002 . Posted: 09:44:45 (AEDT)
BTR Automotive sold for $88m

Lavington's BTR Automotive plant, near Albury Wodonga, has been sold for $88 million.

The plant will come under the Australian ownership of alloy manufacturer ION Limited, after being sold by its UK-based parent company.

A spokesman for ION says new markets for BTR products are being sought in Australia and overseas, with the potential to increase production to meet new demand.

The BTR plant, which employs about 850 people, is currently operating at near capacity, supplying vehicle transmissions to both Ford Australia and Ssangyong of Korea.

Further details of the takeover are expected to be announced at a press conference this afternoon.

The holden and falcon diffs are a BTR70 and BTR78 - dating from 1963. If your diffs are Tuesday, April 9, 2002 . Posted: 09:44:45 (AEDT)
BTR Automotive sold for $88m

Lavington's BTR Automotive plant, near Albury Wodonga, has been sold for $88 million.

The plant will come under the Australian ownership of alloy manufacturer ION Limited, after being sold by its UK-based parent company.

A spokesman for ION says new markets for BTR products are being sought in Australia and overseas, with the potential to increase production to meet new demand.

The BTR plant, which employs about 850 people, is currently operating at near capacity, supplying vehicle transmissions to both Ford Australia and Ssangyong of Korea.

Further details of the takeover are expected to be announced at a press conference this afternoon.[/quote]

The holden/ford diffs are the BTR70 and BTR78. If your diff is larger then???

**123rover50** · 4th March 2011, 08:54 AM

Isuzurover.
The only marks I have found are cast in the housing and reading upside down with a mirror appear to be E26Y - 59C - V.
I havnt found any on the tubes.

Wagoo.
The truck is operational but I have been changing gearboxes and untill I am satisfied with the present box [ I am not] I did not want to go through installing the rear drive and bottom PTO only to take them off again.
All that stuff makes the TB too heavy to lift on and off the back of the GB.

Thanks for the info. I will try and contact BTR and it will be interesting to hear what Pirate says.

**rick130** · 4th March 2011, 10:43 AM

I'm wondering if those BW diffs are the same as fitted to the Kaiser/Willys CJ's that were built in Brisbane in the sixties ?
I'm pretty sure there's some photos on here.

IIRC BW/BTR were just round the corner from JRA at Morebank.

[edit]not if you look at the photos of 101 Ron on this thread identifying a jeep?

**rick130** · 4th March 2011, 10:45 AM

Didn't Dana buy out the BTR operation here in the last eight years ?

[edit]

On July 1, 2000 the Fairfield, South African and Indonesian facilities became part of the Spicer Light Axle Division. This division is part of the worldwide Dana Corporation which is headquartered in Toledo, USA. The Albury transmission operation was not part of this change and remained BTR Automotive.
Spicer Axle Australia Pty Ltd at Fairfield is focussed on the design, manufacture and assembly of automotive axle products. More than 6.5 million axle assemblies have been delivered to customers both locally in Australia and overseas.

SAA Website

The (now M) 78 is still a current production diff.

SAA Website

**rick130** · 5th March 2011, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by isuzubob

I'd never seen a LR diff quite like this at the time. Is this the BW type??

That's a very different diff to the one above.

**wagoo** · 5th March 2011, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by rick130

That's a very different diff to the one above.

That is true, but if local content requirements was the reasoning behind trialling the Borg Warner diff below, I can't think of any other company that
had a manufacturing plant in Australia as a source for the diff above.

The casting certainly doesn't look like a modified Salisbury 8HA.
Wagoo.

**rick130** · 6th March 2011, 04:16 PM

123rover50's diffs are definitely Borg Warner, you can clearly see the BW logo cast into the bottom of the housing in the third photo.

isuzubobs are BW diffs too, I just reckon they are either Holden or Nissan housings and not Ford.
BTR/BW ended up supplying everyone here with rear drive diffs after Holden dropped their old banjo and Sals diffs.

I just had a bo peep under dear old dad's ED Falcon and it looks like a cross between the two, infact the majority of the casting is more like the bottom one with a rounded bottom like the top one.

IIRC BW had at least two ends they could supply, and I think the smallest had a 7.5" or 7.75" diameter CW and they went up from there.

Of course I could just phone a mate and ask and it'd clear up everything as he was one of the development engineers

**Phoenix** · 7th March 2011, 02:07 PM

Ok, this is getting confusing, I might split this into 2 threads when I get a chance!

**Phoenix** · 8th March 2011, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by wagoo

There was a leaf sprung Stage One Sandringham 6 pickup in Melbourne around that time that was owned by one of the LandRover workshops that may also have been trialled as I vaguely recall it was military green.My earlier comments were based on observation of that unit. There would probably have been a range of diffs amongst the trialled protos.
Wagoo.

That green sandringham may well have been, or become, part of the military project. Info and pics here Project Perentie - Land Rovers Vehicles-REMLR

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