Thread: I agree with Stoner

From a poster on a MotoGP forum quoting from several articles.
For some reason Stoner hasn't been given his due in how clever he is at getting the most out of these beasts, and everyone has been quick to jump on him when he lost the Duc front end, yet there were only a few times over the years his team-mates could get close to him in outright speed.
A couple of UK posters in several forums say that the UK media in particular have been relentless in bagging or belittling his triumphs and playing up his offs.
Apparently the Continental (except maybe the Italians) and US media are much more balanced, obviously parochialism discounts adding the Oz bike media's slant.

Dovi's (selected) comments:

I saw Stoner's telemetry, and his throttle control is incredibly delicate. He also uses very little traction control."

Is it any wonder that Stoner got a bit testy in '07 when every commentator and his dog was calling it that it was the Duc electronics, with phrases like: 'the playstation kid', 'the king of t/c', 'whacks the throttle open and lets the electronics do the rest' etc.?

Capirex's (selected) comments:

Looking at Stoner's telemetry with the Ducati, you can understand that he rides it very well, but it's also true that his style cannot be replicated; he really uses the rear brake a lot, and he's applying a lot of pressure on it in situations where it's difficult to do so. In situations where I'm not able to do the same. On the contrary, he is very smooth on the front brake, using constant pressure with it."

However, it's Rossi's comments only about four weeks apart that I find most interesting: in the famous 'Chiambretti Night' interview, Rossi somewhat jokingly said of Stoner that:

He is a madman, who often repeat the same mistakes."

I'm not having a go at Rossi, but to me this latest comment of:

"Casey is very good at opening the throttle and straightening up the bike, but I understood this without looking at the telemetry. This is something that, especially with the spec tires which give less performance, is important for going fast. It's a trick, but it's a difficult one that Casey knows how to do pretty well. It's also important because riding like that puts the bike in less trouble, so we may need to learn it..."

is indicative that he has been on the steepest learning curve of his career probably since first jumping on a 500.. and fair dues to him, I think that his latest comment about Stoner is as close as any rider could be asked to admitting that maybe he has been a bit less than generous to Stoner in the past in his public assessment of Stoner's abilities. A long time ago on this forum I said that I could see the day -when they are no longer active competitiors - that Rossi and Stoner will be able to sit down and share laughs as two old warriors with mutual respect, and I remain so convinced.

Rossi: "Hoping for better"

Stoner's secret? "He doesn't lean"

From this months AMN

On leaving Ducati

Basically indicated he really struggled with the PR obligations - "I got really worn out by it all. It was the complete opposite of the life I had dreamed of."

"It wasn't riding the Ducati or Valentino talking to Ducati that made me change....it was the Lorenzo thing in 2009 that annoyed me. Ducati are always crying about how they haven't got enough money, then they offered Lorenzo more than double what I was on. They're two faced. The people I actually work with- Felipe Preziosi and the guys who worked on the bikes - were brilliant, but the bosses tell you one thing and do another."

On the Honda

"The Honda turns much better that my lines are now totally different", he smiles. "There's a couple of points where the Ducati feels better than the Honda but there's a lot of points where the Honda feels a lot better than the Ducati."

On Traction Control and power delivery

Not a fan of TC and clearly enjoying that he is now getting public recognition as being a rider that uses less than others.

On power delivery - "When I first rode the Honda we used the other guys settings during the first exits and for me the engine was way too dull, too smooth. It would just slowly come on, so we reduced that over the next runs, then we went too far and the thing was really aggressive, so we whacked it back one step and we've been happy with it since."


Burgess

"All this talk about an advanced seamless gearbox will not be the reason Honda will win races. I can tell you you would be a mug to think that the Yamaha YZR-M1 gearbox is not something special. If anyone thinks Honda now has cutting edge technology it might be because they have come from behind. Yamaha has a very smooth, advanced system. I know how it works and have been privy to the inside of some of the trick F1 gearboxes with the top teams. Seamless shifting is not an engineering marvel. You might save one hendretdth of a second, and that's only on an upshift, although it is nice feeling for the rider."

Originally Posted by rick130

The kids that have only seen the Vale era should've been around when Gardner, Rainey, Schwantz, McGee, et al were carving each other up, or earlier still Barry Sheen and Eddie Lawson. (who I wish I had seen race)

I am watching on pay TV, the first episode of Best Bike Battles. This was the Australian MotoGP at Phillip Island in 1989. What a top race between Wayne Gardner, Wayne Rainey, Christian Sarron, and Kevin Magee. The lead swapping multiple times on each lap is brilliant to behold.

I've programmed the IQ box to record the next 10 episodes.

I've just finished watching the 1989 race and during it Freddie Spencer dropped his bike. The marshals helped him up then walked away even though he was asking for a push.

'89 would've been the race where Donna ran up the straight to Wayne at the finish, wasn't it Ron ?
Amazing race and not a dry eye in the house at the finish, Gardner raced on raw emotion IMO.

Just found this quote from Wayne Rainey regarding that race.

“Gardner ran into the back of me twice, and didn’t even notice. He was one of the sloppiest guys I ever raced – he reminded me of a bulldog on a bike. When he was on a good day, he could ride that thing right out of the saddle. He was a bit like Kevin, but more out of control. Not a thinking racer: he rode by the excitement of the crowd. If nobody was there I think he wouldn’t do much.”

Apparently back in the Barry Sheene era his big rivalry was with Kenny Roberts Snr and they really really didn't like each other, during or after their careers.

"On power delivery - "When I first rode the Honda we used the other guys settings during the first exits and for me the engine was way too dull, too smooth. It would just slowly come on, so we reduced that over the next runs, then we went too far and the thing was really aggressive, so we whacked it back one step and we've been happy with it since."

This is similar to Doohan going with the Big Bang engine,,
they all (the rest) had to try it to keep up,, but not many could master it,,

"Apparently back in the Barry Sheene era his big rivalry was with Kenny Roberts Snr and they really really didn't like each other, during or after their careers."

Literally stuff of Legends,,,

I dont think I saw Sheene take a backwards step ever,,

Originally Posted by rick130

'89 would've been the race where Donna ran up the straight to Wayne at the finish, wasn't it Ron ?

That wasn't shown but I think you are right.

Re Gardner running into Rainey, I didn't notice that so I will have to record it again (I deleted it last night) and watch again. A couple of times in that race Gardner had to stand the bike up in corners top avoid Rainey who came in underneath him. The commentator didn't mention any running into the back of Rainey.

Interesting that no one has commented on the Aussie marshals not helping Freddy Spencer.

Originally Posted by rick130

Apparently back in the Barry Sheene era his big rivalry was with Kenny Roberts Snr and they really really didn't like each other, during or after their careers.

That wasn't obvious in the programme, "Champions" which I saw last week and which was about Kenny Roberts. Were Roberts and Sheene in the same team (both rode Yamaha) when Kenny retired from riding MotoGP?

Hopefully, the full race of Sheene vs Roberts in 1979 will be shown on Best Bike Battles.

On Barry's death:

Originally Posted by Roberts

Kenny Roberts, the former triple world 500cc motorcycling champion, led the tributes to his long-standing rival and friend Barry Sheene who died in hospital in Australia yesterday, aged 52, after an eight-month fight against cancer.

The racing duels between the two became part of sporting legend, particularly the incredible dicing for supremacy in the 1979 British Grand Prix at Silverstone, where Sheene, having nosed ahead, gave Roberts the v-sign as he pulled away, only for the American to have the last laugh and take victory.

"We were rivals, and I wouldn't have achieved what I did had it not have been for Barry - I simply did not want him to beat me at any time, and he felt the same way about me. He was a huge competitor who pulled no punches. He spoke what he believed, and that is what I liked about him.

"We were good friends, we went through an awful lot. I appreciated his abilities. In Britain there was never anyone else like him, and probably there never will be. He was a one-off, always good fun, and a great competitor."

In a tribute to Barry on his death, one fan wrote (item trimmed):

Originally Posted by Nigel Sherwin

Mallory Park Clubhouse, race of the Year 1975. A crowd of us in the bar after Saturday practice talking bikes when in walks Barry Sheene and Kenny Roberts. We invited them over and had one of the best nights I can ever remember talking bikes and drinking more than a few beers. How those two raced the next day is beyond me, I can't even remember now who won, but then again who cares?

Those two items don't seem consistent with people who disliked each other.