Thread: Carbon Tax. Well someone had to bring it up!

Chucaro the problem is if we push up the costs here FURTHER and limit the amount you can actually produce(to re-state what I just said) via a carbon cap where do you go to make your new product?????

Your mantra about being a leader in green tech is just a fleece your pulling over your eyes. As I have stated we will export jobs and industry to a more polluting country and make the enviroment worse not better.
I sit at work and can watch chinese made wind generators being unloaded is that your definition of "leading the way"?
Where they use 30% more coal to make the same item is that reducing carbon?
You have a funny sense of enviromentalisim More like an enviroterrorist pushing pollution to other countries.

Originally Posted by frantic

Actually lets look at british columbia: No steel making, here that alone covers 92,000 full time jobs DIRECTLY + 6200 part-time.
That state has a population of 4.2 million compared to 20 million here.
They have almost no manufacturing industry compared to us.
Follow your own advice about reality.

No steelmaking, however they do have an aluminium smelter, which typically has 3-4 times the carbon footprint per tonne of product than steel. They also produce large quantities of coke for steelmaking.

I would have expected that their manufacturing sector is similar to our own - do you have evidence otherwise?

p.s. - senior people I know in the australian steel industry are not concerned about the carbon price.

I have the solution to all this CO2. shut down all our steel industries, put my son on the dole [he is a welder and with no steel we will not need welders] get Tata and all other car manufactures to produce their cars from Carbon Fibre-- that will lock up great amounts of carbon, and make all cars use less fuel as they will be lighter, which is why Carbon Fiber is used now in gliders, lightweight racing bike frames, lightweight Kayak paddles & Racing Kayaks, etc.

Oh and we could ban all products from Brazil as they are planning on cutting down trees--which adsorb Hugh amounts of CO2 to put in large dams which use very little CO2.

Originally Posted by frantic

Chucaro the problem is if we push up the costs here FURTHER and limit the amount you can actually produce(to re-state what I just said) via a carbon cap where do you go to make your new product?????

China obviously, the country where they produce 30% more CO2 per tonne of Steel because of how they are making steel than we ever do in Australia.

Probably they are not concerned about Carbon price as the plan on moving their manufacturing to china like so many other Australian companies have already done.

Again the obsesion with the irrevelant isuzu? We have 6 smelters, 7 refineries and about 17,000 employed in them and mining, we are the biggest exporter of bauxite at around 70 million tonnes and the 2nd largest producer of alumina. B.C's biggest manufacturing industry???? WOOD, pulp, board, laminate etc = 32% of their manufacturing employment/output $$ wise.

Australia, europe and japan all use around the 505-490kg of coal to make 1 ton of steel , china uses around the 650kg mark and india is worse again. We make around 7 million tonnes here in Oz which sounds a lot but when you look to china making well over 600 million tons it kind of pales into insignifigance.

Originally Posted by frantic

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Australia, Europe and Japan all use around the 505-490kg of coal to make 1 ton of steel , china uses around the 650kg mark and india is worse again. We make around 7 million tonnes here in Oz which sounds a lot but when you look to china making well over 600 million tons it kind of pales into insignifigance.

If kg per ton of steel is related to pollution or emissions per capita, which it is, then Australia still a big polluter.
Between China and India there are over 2 billon people that have the same right to have the standard of living that we have here or in USA among other countries. We polluted the planet with our standard of living and now things are getting out of hand when China and India start having cars and industy.
I thing that it is time to review our energy resources and mining before get it ourt of hand and in doing that encourage other countries to do the same.