Thread: possible ADF replacment for Unimog

The prices start at $600,000 each (see https://www.discountnewcars.com.au/n...ent-25469.aspx).

Cheers
KarlB

A new article suggests the govt is interfering in the tender process to favour the Bushmaster which costs a lot more.

See Govt accused of interfering in Defence tender process - National News - National - General - The Canberra Times

Govt accused of interfering in Defence tender process


BY MARK HAWTHORNE AND RAFAEL EPSTEIN
23 Jul, 2011 12:00 AM
The Gillard Government has been accused of interfering in a Defence tender process to buy the next generation of army trucks, pushing a generous portion of the multibillion-dollar contract to the Victorian-built Bushmaster.Defence and industry insiders have told Fairfax the Government has tried to circumvent recommendations from the Defence Materiel Organisation, which favoured a cheaper armoured truck made by German company Rheinmetall MAN. It beat both Mercedes-Benz and the modified Bushmaster Ute, which is made in Bendigo by French company Thales, in the Defence tender.

The Bushmaster Ute not only came last in trials, but costs up to three times as much as its rivals. It is more expensive to service and rolled twice in initial testing due to a high centre of gravity.

Despite this, a source within the DMO said a message came back from the Government after the German firm topped the tender process: ''Any option that doesn't include Thales is no option.'' Another insider said, ''The Government wanted to keep Bendigo open and it would close if we didn't give them some work.'' They said the Government was trying to ''influence'' the final departmental decision, worth as much as $1.7billion.

While the DMO has recommended Rheinmetall MAN, the Government has not yet made a decision on the tender. In a statement, the department denied being asked to include Thales as a successful tenderer. It said the final decision would rest on ''the needs of our soldiers and best value for money''.

The delayed project for 2700 medium and heavy weight trucks includes 1500 vehicles with substantial armoured protection.
Thales has bid to supply 900 of its new Bushmaster Utes worth more than $500million to replace the army's ageing fleet of Unimog trucks.
Privately, a number of parties have raised concerns about political interference in the tender.
In March, Mercedes-Benz Australian president Hans Tempel wrote to Defence Minister Stephen Smith to express concerns about ''the overall process of selecting a final tenderer ... and whether undisclosed factors will play a role''.

The letter, which Fairfax has obtained, was written after Labor's Bendigo MP Steve Gibbons stated publicly that the Government could reverse the DMO's final decision.

The MP told the ABC that, while the DMO may ''overlook Bushmaster, we may be able to overturn that ... because ultimately it will be a Government decision''.

Mr Gibbons has been a vocal campaigner for Bushmaster, which has been forced to cut 100 jobs in his constituency in the past year.
In his reply to Mr Tempel, Mr Smith warned Mercedes-Benz that, ''a letter has recently been sent to all tenderers ... reminding them of their obligations regarding public announcements and communications''.

The department has reminded all three tenderers of their obligation not to speak to journalists.

Fairfax believes there are further concerns the Government intervened in a separate contract awarded to Thales in May, when 101 Bushmaster troop carriers were purchased for $130million, despite the army needing less than half as many to replace damaged vehicles. That contract will keep the Bendigo production line open for at least another year.

Sources say the army originally requested only 31 vehicles, but Defence increased its request to 61 vehicles. The final purchase of 101 vehicles is seen by insiders as excessive, and they claim there are dozens of Bushmasters sitting unused in storage. The department says, ''there are no unused [deployable] Bushmasters in storage''.

However, satellite pictures taken last month show 89 Bushmasters sitting on defence land in Brisbane (and there were 61 pictured there last year). ''This is protectionism,'' one source at the DMO said. ''We are trading off the safety of soldiers and we are trading off capability for an Australian-made option.''

This week, Mr Smith emphasised he would make no decisions on the new truck contract until after he received a recommendation from the department. Speaking at Thales's Bendigo plant he said, ''we will await Defence advice and then we'll make a judgment''.

The department makes a recommendation based on the technical merits of each manufacturer, but before a formal submission is made, it must consider what is known as ''whole of Commonwealth requirements'' for army vehicles. Defence and contractor sources say this is simply ''industry policy being run out of defence''.

One source said while all three vehicles had minor weaknesses, all three met the contract requirements and all were better than the current fleet in Afghanistan.

I dont think the bushmaster is going for the heavy vehicle part of the contract they just arnt big enough but a few years ago there was a huge whoha about the uniform contract going OS and most people wanted them to be made here even if it cost more is this any different?
The actros looks good for the heavy vehicle replacement but we would still need prime movers so it may not be the best for what we want but it does look good
Any body know what the MAN truck is that DMO supoesedly supports?

Not sure. They have some cool stuff though.
Rheinmetall Defence - Rheinmetall MAN Military Vehicles

It's no different to Airbus getting the Tanker contract for the USAF and Boeing jumping up and down and threatening polititions with job cuts in thier area.The ADF has a looong history with stuffing up equipement or buying crap that doesn't work to save a few pennies. Pat

Originally Posted by THE BOOGER

I dont think the bushmaster is going for the heavy vehicle part of the contract they just arnt big enough but a few years ago there was a huge whoha about the uniform contract going OS and most people wanted them to be made here even if it cost more is this any different?
The actros looks good for the heavy vehicle replacement but we would still need prime movers so it may not be the best for what we want but it does look good
Any body know what the MAN truck is that DMO supoesedly supports?

The MAN is basically Actros running gear as MB supply major component assemblies to them ie engines, gearboxes, diffs etc.

The 8x8 Actros has been around for some time, we sell around 30-40 a year that end up as drill rigs and support vehicles etc for mining over here, in fact we are just about to deliver one that has just been fitted up to handle ammonium nitrate
The offroad capability of these things is quite impressive.

As to why MAN was suggested is a bit of a mystery but just goes to show why beancounters shouldn't be left to make decisions.

What could have been on offer if it was available in the country is the MB Zetros, a purpose built uber heavy duty truck. Google it!

As for the mogs, parts are exceptionally expensive particularly when you get into the portals and the ditribution is a bit naff as it's not handled by dealers. I get quite a few calls for mog related parts which even I can't get access to and subsequently a lot of potential customers source from Europe direct.
Not sure who the ADF use as a supply line but Dave might know more on that.

Andrew

Oh, if you don't know, I work for MBAuP here in WA.


Using Capitals, the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse or helping your uncle jack off a horse...

The actros looks good for the heavy vehicle replacement but we would still need prime movers so it may not be the best for what we want but it does look good

Mercedes offer a Actros Prime Mover, for Low loader work, its upgraded by a company called Titan, I am sure it would be offered in the Prime mover tender..

The Titans are a 250t rated truck. The mass behind the cab is a torque multiplier unit and hydraulic tank and cooler. For military use it's probably a bit oversized unles there is a requirement to carry 2 or 3 tanks etc on each lowloader. A 4144 or the 4166 which the Titans are based on would generally be sufficient. Titans are around $650-$700k a piece so a bit exxy for general transport duties.
We recently supplied Titans to Mammoet in Port Hedland for a Project going on up there. Still trying to find my pics I took of one....


Using Capitals, the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse or helping your uncle jack off a horse...