They're at it again - Anti-modification laws

**barney** · 19th October 2011, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by LowRanger

Liam
I personally think that being a member of a club should be a personal choice,and not be what equates to being forced to join a club if you want to be able to run a lifted vehicle to a set limit?????
I think the reason a few clubs are not members of the association is very political,from things that have happened in the past.What I do find offensive is that all this is supposed to have been done in consultation with the association? Has the association actually gone to its membership and asked for feedback on an individual basis,I think not.I am a member of a club,and have never been asked to vote on it!!!!
I have no problem with the total of the allowable lift,just the way they want to implement it,saying that 35" tyres will not be allowed.I can still run my 35's and fall in at the 150mm limit and I would not call my vehicle extreme or dangerous.But I do agree that there are plenty out there that abuse the system and make it worse for everyone else,and some of those heavily modified comp type vehicles should not be allowed on public lands or roads.they should be used for what they basically are,and that is competition vehicles.But why should I be tarred with the same brush,just because I wish to use 35" tyres.Farry O'Barrel needs to be sent to the same place as the red haired witch is going to be sent,Political Purgatory!!!!!

Wayne

You're right. the clubs were not asked for their opinions, the whole thing was done by volunteers as representatives of the clubs. secrecy was supposedly kept at the request of the RTA. details leaked to 4wdA, but they got it wrong. Most clubs wanted to know more and have a say, but the info was kept close to the chest until a meeting was held the other month, by the association, with a representative of the RTA,

From what I got from the meeting, the sole reason these restrictions were being imposed were crash impact. the contact points of cars are all supposed to be within a 150mm zone. this is so that when two vehicles collide, these contact zones either slow the impact down by crumpling or prevent vehicle intrusion into the passenger compartment. this zone at the front is also important, because on most passenger cars, certainly all new ones, the shape of the front of the car is designed to impact with an adult pedestrian of average height, below their centre of gravity, guiding the body onto the bonnet and off to the side. by having a lift in excess of their recommendations, the body will most likely pass under the vehicle causing more injuries.

Like it or not, because our vehicles drive on the road, they are going to impose some sort of rule that makes them comply within certain requirements. At least the Association has got some concessions on the original VSI50. According to the draft, you get 50mm suspension lift and 50mm increase in tyre diameter, totalling a height increase of 75mm, with a constant or regular load. this means, it is not measured unladen, like the original VSI50, but with all your camping and recovery gear in it. If you are in a club, they will allow another 25mm because they assume your vehicle skills will either be better or formalised.

If you want to go somewhere between 100 and 150mm, you will have to get it engineered and certified, which you should be doing now anyway. over 150mm, you may be looking at conditional rego or none at all.

the other purpose of the whole scheme is to keep records of vehicle modifications so that when an accident occurs, it can be recorded properly. At the moment, the RTA has no differentiation on their accident statistics that say if it's a 4wd, let alone a modified one. I'm sure that when the figures start to tally up, they will find that modified 4wd's are not the demons they think they are.

Since the laws will not be retrospective, they suggested that when we renew our rego online, we activate the drop down box that asks if our vehicles are modified. this then creates a record that your vehicle is already modified and any new laws that come in will have less impact on you.

Anyway, it's not even before the minister yet. when it does go up, it may cop more changes for the better or the worse and then it's pretty well out of everyone's hands.

This was always going to come, you guys can carry on like spoilt children or compensate for lack of testosterone by overstating your off-road toughness all you like, but it ain't going to do any good. The only way we are going to get a fair deal out of this is by having a strong representative body, speaking for all 4wders. At the moment, all we have is the 4wdNSW&ACT, without the TLCC, the NIssan Club, the Range Rover Club and now the Suzuki Club. With diminishing funds from falling membership, they will be finding it even harder to fight.

If you really want to fight it, join a club and take a position on the association executive. The bureaucrats don't want to talk to one association, let alone multiple user groups, so a strong single representative entity is needed.

so for the rest of you, before you go off on another pointless rant, get some facts guys.

**wagoo** · 20th October 2011, 06:12 AM

I was informed on a similar thread running on 4WDA that aftermarket height adjustable suspensions such as hydraulic over coil springs will be and in fact are already illegal in most states. Can anyone here confirm that?
It would seem to me to be a logical way to comply with the low ride and bumper height regs when on public roads, yet allow the vehicle to be temporarily raised an additional 100mm or so when required to clear the more severe off road obstacles.I do appreciate that most 4wd tracks are classified as public roads, so the Pedants among the law makers could still outlaw such a system on that basis.
For the dedicated defender style landrover owner that doesn't mind performing a bit of body surgery, it shouldn't be too difficult to run 35'' tyres without a suspension lift. I've been doing so on various series vehicles for over 40 years.
Because of their smaller wheel openings Disco /RR owners are stuck with whatever the lift laws will allow though.
Wagoo.

**Lotz-A-Landies** · 20th October 2011, 08:17 AM

While I understand the motives of the regulators, I wonder why they are not so ardent with road architecture and roadside obstructions. The USA have had such regulations for many decades, but we still have electricity authorities installing wooden power poles right on the kerb and in SA the steel and concrete Stobe poles, both of which kill more people in cars than any 150mm lift will ever do.

Will B Triple semis be restricted to the same 150mm impact zone?

Diana

**Hymie** · 20th October 2011, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by CraigE

You are kidding right about most police being trained and competent?

Then there was the time I got a canary for a Holley Carby (well for starters a Holley is not illegal), but it was a standard 2 barrel Rochester on a 253.
Personally apart from anything totally unsafe and officer issuing unroadworthy tickets should be a mechanic or have mechanical background.
What irks me even if they are blatantly wrong you still pay for the inspection and have to present the vehicle, usually during work time.

I got a canary for fitting a 318 V8 to a VF Valiant. The copper told me that Valiant didn't make V8's so it had to be illegal.
Pity I still had the original paperwork from when the car was brand new showing it as a factory fitted donk.

**Hoges** · 20th October 2011, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by wagoo

I was informed on a similar thread running on 4WDA that aftermarket height adjustable suspensions such as hydraulic over coil springs will be and in fact are already illegal in most states. Can anyone here confirm that?
It would seem to me to be a logical way to comply with the low ride and bumper height regs when on public roads, yet allow the vehicle to be temporarily raised an additional 100mm or so when required to clear the more severe off road obstacles.I do appreciate that most 4wd tracks are classified as public roads, so the Pedants among the law makers could still outlaw such a system on that basis.
For the dedicated defender style landrover owner that doesn't mind performing a bit of body surgery, it shouldn't be too difficult to run 35'' tyres without a suspension lift. I've been doing so on various series vehicles for over 40 years.Because of their smaller wheel openings
Disco /RR owners are stuck with whatever the lift laws will allow though.Wagoo.

Well actually ...we don't get stuck! That's because we have EAS !!!

On occasions over the past 12 years been, part of the "mad Saturday morning" northerly exodus from Brisbane heading towards the Sunshine coast and beyond. I must be getting old, but the number of Jap wannabe tuff trucks mainly dual cabs and utes, sometimes towing a tradie trailer wizzing past in the RH lane...and/or weaving like S Vettel between lanes, seems to be increasing. As the c of g rises so does the instability factor and even a 2" lift @ 110kmh is a risky proposition...
I've seen several run right off the road where sedans in front/following have neatly "sidestepped" the incident ... it's all in the physics.

I guess i'm thinking about the rights of those in the vicinity of the modded vehicle, not those driving the vehicle...

**isuzurover** · 20th October 2011, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by wagoo

I was informed on a similar thread running on 4WDA that aftermarket height adjustable suspensions such as hydraulic over coil springs will be and in fact are already illegal in most states. Can anyone here confirm that?
It would seem to me to be a logical way to comply with the low ride and bumper height regs when on public roads, yet allow the vehicle to be temporarily raised an additional 100mm or so when required to clear the more severe off road obstacles.I do appreciate that most 4wd tracks are classified as public roads, so the Pedants among the law makers could still outlaw such a system on that basis.
For the dedicated defender style landrover owner that doesn't mind performing a bit of body surgery, it shouldn't be too difficult to run 35'' tyres without a suspension lift. I've been doing so on various series vehicles for over 40 years.Because of their smaller wheel openings
Disco /RR owners are stuck with whatever the lift laws will allow though.
Wagoo.

Air spring conversions are legal

Micka on outerlimits was running 37's on an (unlifted?) defender for a while.

**wagoo** · 20th October 2011, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by isuzurover

Air spring conversions are legal

Micka on outerlimits was running 37's on an (unlifted?) defender for a while.

Personally not keen on air springs,they have limited travel and when pumped up for clearance don't allow much articulation.A fully inflated airbag cant be made to stretch longer by cross linking left to right. But if airspring conversions are legal then a hydraulic ram that can be activated to push down on the existing coil springs should be permissable as well. The fully compressed length of even the lightest R/R coil spring is about 6'', enough to fit at least a 4'' stroke ram inside that space to provide that much lift when required. Longer stroke rams if required could be fitted on Defenders where unlike R/Rs/discos the rear floor doesn't cover the rear spring towers.
Bill.

**wagoo** · 20th October 2011, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by Hoges

Well actually ...we don't get stuck! That's because we have EAS !!!

On occasions over the past 12 years been, part of the "mad Saturday morning" northerly exodus from Brisbane heading towards the Sunshine coast and beyond....

OT, but having lived in Brisbane for 6 months about 35 years ago, I can understand people going mad, if they weren't already, and trying to escape at every opporunity.Why they keep returning is what baffles me! It's probably because they're mad

Bill.

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