Thread: They're at it again - Anti-modification laws

Originally Posted by stevo68

Y what...so all opinions are worthy? some need calling out..just as you have mine....to read that on a 4wd site is galling.

Regards

Stevo

This isn't pirate, you can be civil towards others here and not be thought of as a nancy.

Originally Posted by wagoo

I agree with your sentiments 100% Stevo, But I think for Aulro at least, The appropriate location for this thread would be the Extreme Zone. Yeah not many of us check in there, but the ones that do are probably the only ones here that the pending legislation will affect anyway.
Wagoo.

why?? this legislation applies to mild to wild modified 4wds and is not just against the larger trucks.
also this is nsw only at this time, and if you read the proposals from what i have seen on the association forum they are not really so severe compared to the current rules. the idea of this ruling is to stop the unengineered (and potentially unsafe) 4wd from running on the road. why is that such a bad thing?
there is still room in the rules to go upto 150mm lift but with conditions, and tbh i do not see this as a bad thing.
once more details are released to member clubs then it will become clear 4wda are beating this up more than is required.

As an owner of a modified vehicle that rides on 35's,I find myself nearly falling off the chair backwards at some of the comments here.Especially those of larger tyres causing ruts and track erosion.Track erosion can be caused by vehicles with tyres of any size.As a matter of fact,vehicles fitted with lockers and tyres larger than standard are less likely to cause any track damage than a standard vehicle,due to the fact that a locked vehicle is less likely to be spinning wheels.I have many videos of this exact thing happening on trips that I have been on,whereas the modified vehicles have been able to progress without ripping the track up.And the funny thing is that I park my truck on the front grass and it causes no more wear and tear than any of my other cars,but maybe I know how to drive,and don't go around trying to drive like a young hoon.
And Roger,I don't consider myself a poor 4wder because I CHOOSE to modify my vehicle.I have completed all the 4wd training courses held by the 4wd clubs that I have been a member of over the years.And have clocked up many 100's of thousands of KMs in 4wds right across the country.I was one of the people that Mark mentioned,that did Wirraba ridge,many times in vehicles fitted with bartreads and Jeep service tyres etc,no self respecting person ran RTMs .But even back in those days we modified our vehicles by fitting home made winches made from earthmover winches fitted with 12v starter motors to drive them via a reduction box,others used aircraft starters,we also fitted 7.00 and 7.50 x 16 tyres to give us that bit more clearance,unfortunately it was often to the detriment of mechanical reliability,but this was a CHOICE we were prepared to make.
So I believe that modifications are not the problem,it is the extent than some people are exploiting the loopholes in the law and making it worse for the majority,and the fact that the Government is trying to take away our choice.This is the same Government that when they were in opposition gave an undertaking to repel VSI50.

Wayne

Originally Posted by Yorkie

why?? this legislation applies to mild to wild modified 4wds and is not just against the larger trucks.
also this is nsw only at this time, and if you read the proposals from what i have seen on the association forum they are not really so severe compared to the current rules. the idea of this ruling is to stop the unengineered (and potentially unsafe) 4wd from running on the road. why is that such a bad thing?
there is still room in the rules to go upto 150mm lift but with conditions, and tbh i do not see this as a bad thing.
once more details are released to member clubs then it will become clear 4wda are beating this up more than is required.

Well Liam, as evidenced by the majority of the comments on this thread, Aulro is a fairly conservative forum, and the 100mm limit would probably satisfy the needs of most here.The Extreme Zone is there for those of us with the higher aspirations that VSI 50 will impact on. And I propose that it be made a Nay Sayer free zone as well.
Wagoo.

Originally Posted by LowRanger

As an owner of a modified vehicle that rides on 35's,I find myself nearly falling off the chair backwards at some of the comments here.Especially those of larger tyres causing ruts and track erosion.Track erosion can be caused by vehicles with tyres of any size.As a matter of fact,vehicles fitted with lockers and tyres larger than standard are less likely to cause any track damage than a standard vehicle,due to the fact that a locked vehicle is less likely to be spinning wheels.I have many videos of this exact thing happening on trips that I have been on,whereas the modified vehicles have been able to progress without ripping the track up.And the funny thing is that I park my truck on the front grass and it causes no more wear and tear than any of my other cars,but maybe I know how to drive,and don't go around trying to drive like a young hoon.
And Roger,I don't consider myself a poor 4wder because I CHOOSE to modify my vehicle.I have completed all the 4wd training courses held by the 4wd clubs that I have been a member of over the years.And have clocked up many 100's of thousands of KMs in 4wds right across the country.I was one of the people that Mark mentioned,that did Wirraba ridge,many times in vehicles fitted with bartreads and Jeep service tyres etc,no self respecting person ran RTMs .But even back in those days we modified our vehicles by fitting home made winches made from earthmover winches fitted with 12v starter motors to drive them via a reduction box,others used aircraft starters,we also fitted 7.00 and 7.50 x 16 tyres to give us that bit more clearance,unfortunately it was often to the detriment of mechanical reliability,but this was a CHOICE we were prepared to make.
So I believe that modifications are not the problem,it is the extent than some people are exploiting the loopholes in the law and making it worse for the majority,and the fact that the Government is trying to take away our choice.This is the same Government that when they were in opposition gave an undertaking to repel VSI50.

Wayne

Wayne, regarding track damage you are right in that plenty of times I have seen you drive ever so gently through areas that I do scrabble for traction on. So indeed I do more damage to tracks than you. The 31" Bighorn tyred D2s are gentler on the terrain than my 33" Bighorned County too, using traction control, rear lockers and skill.
I hold your detroit, sorted suspension and skill accountable for more of your total capability than your tyres.

On the other hand, don't forget that stinky puddle near the Lost City that your 35s were useless in...what could have caused the ruts through that puddle if it wasn't bigger tyres/clearance than yours? There is no flow in-just rain, no run off, a firm base, and incredibly deep tyre ruts. A year before I drove it on 33s!
Later that night a 40"+ bogger tyred monster contraption came out of the darkness, as if to answer the question...

Originally Posted by wagoo

Well Liam, as evidenced by the majority of the comments on this thread, Aulro is a fairly conservative forum, and the 100mm limit would probably satisfy the needs of most here.The Extreme Zone is there for those of us with the higher aspirations that VSI 50 will impact on. And I propose that it be made a Nay Sayer free zone as well.
Wagoo.

and that my friend is why the 4wd movement will always be on the back foot, everyone is happy to keep to there own little groups instead of banding together as a one sided team.
the nsw&act association are trying to get what is best for those involved in the hobby/sport but then it seems few actually support the association.
if all persons actively supported the the association and got involved with working together on these issues alot more could be done. i was surprised to read today that tlcc and nissan patrol club are not even affiliated with the association, so much untapped knowledge just in those two groups and it is not accessed. this is feel is the only way forward without having a dedicated political party for the common good of the 4wd'er.

my personal thoughts are yes big tyres and lifts are cool and if properly registered/engineered good fun on the tracks. the problem the rta see is not all these rigs are engineered and "could" be potential accidents waiting to happen. this new rules cover upto 150mm (6in) so is not a death nell to those wanting to run bigger rigs.

Originally Posted by isuzutoo-eh

Wayne, regarding track damage you are right in that plenty of times I have seen you drive ever so gently through areas that I do scrabble for traction on. So indeed I do more damage to tracks than you. The 31" Bighorn tyred D2s are gentler on the terrain than my 33" Bighorned County too, using traction control, rear lockers and skill.
I hold your detroit, sorted suspension and skill accountable for more of your total capability than your tyres.

On the other hand, don't forget that stinky puddle near the Lost City that your 35s were useless in...what could have caused the ruts through that puddle if it wasn't bigger tyres/clearance than yours? There is no flow in-just rain, no run off, a firm base, and incredibly deep tyre ruts. A year before I drove it on 33s!
Later that night a 40"+ bogger tyred monster contraption came out of the darkness, as if to answer the question...

Mark
The hole you refer to is full of leaf matter and a thick black ooze(I have the remnant in my yard still) which over time has been churned up
by many many vehicle,tyre size in this hole is inconsequential as bottom is so sloppy that any vehicle entering the hole just churns it up.Also the track is used by the logging trucks,who,having no way around must go through the hole,and they are very heavy and have large wheels.
And yes I agree that the idiot in the black 40 series on Boggers was the sort of vehicle that gives 4wders a bad name.Trailered in and out on not only public land,but on a public rd.
There will always be 2 different camps in this,the people that are happy to run basically a standard vehicle and are happy to travel the the CDand E grade tracks or outback touring,and then there will be the people that like to do the B and A grade tracks,and the best way to do these tracks is in a modified vehicle that will minimise damage to the track in conjunction with driver skill,unfortunately in both camps there are people that either don't have the skill or training,or choose to abuse their vehicles and the environment.But this is no different to life in general,there are morons in all walks of life that tend to abuse things to the detriment of others.

Wayne

Originally Posted by Yorkie

and that my friend is why the 4wd movement will always be on the back foot, everyone is happy to keep to there own little groups instead of banding together as a one sided team.
the nsw&act association are trying to get what is best for those involved in the hobby/sport but then it seems few actually support the association.
if all persons actively supported the the association and got involved with working together on these issues a lot more could be done. i was surprised to read today that tlcc and nissan patrol club are not even affiliated with the association, so much untapped knowledge just in those two groups and it is not accessed. this is feel is the only way forward without having a dedicated political party for the common good of the 4wd'er.

my personal thoughts are yes big tyres and lifts are cool and if properly registered/engineered good fun on the tracks. the problem the rta see is not all these rigs are engineered and "could" be potential accidents waiting to happen. this new rules cover upto 150mm (6in) so is not a death nell to those wanting to run bigger rigs.

Liam
I personally think that being a member of a club should be a personal choice,and not be what equates to being forced to join a club if you want to be able to run a lifted vehicle to a set limit?????
I think the reason a few clubs are not members of the association is very political,from things that have happened in the past.What I do find offensive is that all this is supposed to have been done in consultation with the association? Has the association actually gone to its membership and asked for feedback on an individual basis,I think not.I am a member of a club,and have never been asked to vote on it!!!!
I have no problem with the total of the allowable lift,just the way they want to implement it,saying that 35" tyres will not be allowed.I can still run my 35's and fall in at the 150mm limit and I would not call my vehicle extreme or dangerous.But I do agree that there are plenty out there that abuse the system and make it worse for everyone else,and some of those heavily modified comp type vehicles should not be allowed on public lands or roads.they should be used for what they basically are,and that is competition vehicles.But why should I be tarred with the same brush,just because I wish to use 35" tyres.Farry O'Barrel needs to be sent to the same place as the red haired witch is going to be sent,Political Purgatory!!!!!

Wayne