this would make me very nervous, record gun sales in US

the biggest arguments used to justify citizens carrying a concealed gun legally is that they can stop a criminal in his tracks if he attacks you, prevent a criminal committing a crime against another citizen if you see it, deter criminals from doing crime as they don't know who is armed and who isn't.

the statistics and facts don't however bear the arguments out in any way.

so the laws allowing citizens to carry a concealed gun merely makes the presence of guns in public areas legal and has no deterrent or preventative effect whatsoever

The best part about CCW is that criminals don't have to break into your house to steal your guns, they just take them off you in the street! Saves on broken windows at home I guess.

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Originally Posted by bee utey

I'll accept that back in history your rights could well be defended by a personal stash of guns, when your enemies had spears and arrows and coshes and knives. But this is the 21st century and the best weapon is information. When the guvmint has surveillance fully covered, your best bet is the collection and distribution of information right back at them. Think RC helicopters with cameras etc. Think underground resistance. Guns are sooo yesterday.

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Spamming the twitterverse and facepalm seem to be the most effective means these days...

Worked with the supertrawler...

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Originally Posted by isuzurover

Spamming the twitterverse and facepalm seem to be the most effective means these days...

Worked with the supertrawler...

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What I love is dudes all steamed up about the gummint taking their guns, while the actual Govt is passing laws to control the Internet and spy on its citizens... The gun dudes don't care about that, they're going to blast their way to FREEDOM!!!!!

Cheers,

Adam

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Originally Posted by waz

Exactly how does a law-abiding person carrying a concealed handgun affect the rights of others?

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How do they affect the rights of others?,easy,your got a gun mate,you've just affected my rights to live and work in peace. Pat

Well, this has been an interesting conversation, the subject seems to polarise opinion, I will leave my final word to professionals, who say it far better than me. Bob

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[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buqtdpuZxvk"]Galaxy Song - YouTube[/ame]

Interesting show on Foxtel Doomsday Preppers, middle age Americans who believe for a variety of reasons the world is coming to end and that society will collapse and the world will become dog eat dog, no law order except the one imposed by oneself at the point of a gun and they are preparing themselves for it by hoarding foodstuffs, water, medicine, guns, bows and arrows, explosives, seed stock.

No one seems to believe 1 gun is enough and some have 2 guns or more per room in the house and their cars and are teaching their kids 7 years and up to shoot pistols and assault rifles, even while wearing chemical warfare suits and gas masks.

Some have gone the traditional underground shelters ranging from old buried sea containers to the full nuclear fallout shelters, one guy has converted an old missile silo into a 14 storey apartment complex for those wanting luxury secure doomsday accommodation with self contained supermarket with 5 year supply of freeze dried food stuffs.

Interesting insight into the mental state of American society and the fear factor of its members.

Yep! Fear is the driver behind most wingnut nonsense. Just watch Faux News or our own version - commercial TV.

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Originally Posted by Land-Rover

I'll take it you're against what's been happening with Australia's involvement in the Middle East for the last decade and the previous war zones the ADF has entered?

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The only war in which Australian forces were involved in the defence of Australia was part of the Pacific theatre in WW2. All other engagements were someone else's wars.

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Originally Posted by VladTepes

I suspect south central L.A. was not one of those places :lol:

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Last year I caught a bus from downtown to South Central and walked around looking for the old Offenhauser/Meyer & Drake plant in Gage Avenue. The area is very ethnic, very dilapidated. I got directions from a small group of coloured youths who were polite, helpful, and quite interested in the history which they had not heard of before. I didn't feel afraid or threatened. Might be different after dark.

Locals told me the areas dominated by the Mexican street gangs are now the most dangerous areas. Watts was the black ghetto notorious for race riots. It is now almost entirely Mexican and the Mex gangs drove the black gangs out (Bloods, Crips, etc) violently.

Comment on the US economy- the run down ethnic suburbs with small dilapidated houses on pocket handerkerchief blocks will have 3-4 or more late model cars jammed in the driveway and yard.