Thread: this would make me very nervous, record gun sales in US

Originally Posted by akelly

Haven't done much firearms training, have you?

Thanks for the insult BTW, it makes it easier for me to disregard your opinions.

Except he's correct.

It has happened with open carry - albeit rarely; but very, very rarely with concealed carry. In fact almost never.

Originally Posted by Land-Rover

This has got to be the stupidest comment I have ever read.
<snip>
Also there would be no way a criminal could simply steal a firearm off somebody, who has it concealed, on the streets.
I don't think you understand a concealed carry is there to protect that person's life.
If anyone was to even attempt some sort of robbery on them I'm certain that individual with the concealed firearm wouldn't take any chances.
Stealing a firearm out of someones own holster or hands would be one of the easiest ways of ending your own life, definitely not worth the effort and risk.

I just thought I would remind you of the statistics from the US. "Overall, Branas's study found that people who carried guns were 4.5 times as likely to be shot and 4.2 times as likely to get killed compared with unarmed citizens. When the team looked at shootings in which victims had a chance to defend themselves, their odds of getting shot were even higher." Carrying a gun increases risk of getting shot and killed - science-in-society - 06 October 2009 - New Scientist

Also when we consider trained professionals, "Firearms claimed the lives of 92% of the officers killed in the line of duty from 1976 to 1998. The officer's own gun was used in 12% of all murders of police officers." http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/ascii/ph98.txt

Do you want to revise your statement now?

Originally Posted by Vanguard

The "look at this study I found that supports what I already think" arguments in forums don't really convince anyone except the poster. There are studies and statistics that support both sides of this debate if you go looking. I have seen studies that support concealed carry and open carry; there's even a debate raging between whether you should conceal or not conceal in the US.

...

Not all "studies" are created equal.

If you look you can find "studies" which purport to show that the earth is flat, that homeopathy, "free energy" is real, CO2 levels in the atmosphere are not increasing, etc...

The study I posted was the most recent, most comprensive, study performed to date using whole-of-US data from 1977 - 2006.

As a scientist, I try not to pre-judge things, and am open to new evidence that would disprove previous studies. However, nobody has posted a more recent or more comprehansive study than the one above.

Most/all of the Pro-CC/OC studies posted on here have been discredited by independant studies.

Of course closed minded people can and will ignoore the evidence...

[NB, as stated previously, I am by no means anti-gun. I do believe though that there is sufficient evidence to ban CC/OC of handguns].

Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

I just thought I would remind you of the statistics from the US. "Overall, Branas's study found that people who carried guns were 4.5 times as likely to be shot and 4.2 times as likely to get killed compared with unarmed citizens. When the team looked at shootings in which victims had a chance to defend themselves, their odds of getting shot were even higher." Carrying a gun increases risk of getting shot and killed - science-in-society - 06 October 2009 - New Scientist

Also when we consider trained professionals, "Firearms claimed the lives of 92% of the officers killed in the line of duty from 1976 to 1998. The officer's own gun was used in 12% of all murders of police officers." http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/ascii/ph98.txt

Do you want to revise your statement now?

No need. It doesn't differenciate between criminals and CCW permit holders.

It's criminals shooting criminals.

One of the reasons for the high number of people killed with their own weapons is because in the moment that they have to make a decision they hestitate or shoot to wound. This shown by statistics for the military that show many trained soldiers will shoot to keep the "enemy" undercover rather than shoot to kill, but that is what makes civilised people we dont usally want to kill Criminals arnt usally that worried about it

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/On-Killing-Psychological-Learning-Society/dp/0316330116"]On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society: Dave Grossman: 9780316330114: Amazon.com: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41dPS0%2By%2ByL.@@AMEPARAM@@41dPS0%2By%2ByL[/ame]

This makes a good read if your into why people do or dont kill

Originally Posted by waz

No need. It doesn't differenciate between criminals and CCW permit holders.

It's criminals shooting criminals.

Nice to hear that you believe that serving Police officers are criminals!

BTW it does differentiate between gun carrying and unarmed persons. Looking at the report I want to be in the unarmed group and have almost 5 times better chance of not being shot.

Let's just be thankful CCW/OCW not a problem we have to deal with. It ain't happening here, never gonna happen here and if the govt keeps stacking it's 'advisory panels' with pro-gun lobbyists we are in good shape. Their recommendations are so absurd and their bias so obvious they don't even pass the laugh test.

Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

Nice to hear that you believe that serving Police officers are criminals!

BTW it does differentiate between gun carrying and unarmed persons. Looking at the report I want to be in the unarmed group and have almost 5 times better chance of not being shot.

Wow. You actually believe what you write?

I want you to have the choice to be in whatever group you want. However, you don't want the same for others. You want to dictate their choice to them.