One for the fridgies

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Originally Posted by rick130

Except probably half the commercial refrig trades course in the first two years is electrical. [emoji12]

And don't get me started on most sparkles and control circuits [emoji23]

And we have demarcation issues with plumbers, too. [emoji23]

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The split system ticket or what ever it was,was doomed for failure when it appeared.
Everyone in the trade knew that.
But they couldn’t reverse the decision,as they would look like fools,again.

So they waited a while,then did the back flip.The QBCC actually took control,and instigated the backflip.

Just imagine the waste of resources waiting for a sparkle to come look over our shoulder so we can do some electrical work that is covered in our qualifications.
What a joke that would be.

In fact,in the 40+ years I have been in the industry,I would have known probably 2 or 3 Sparkles that actually knew what they were doing when it came to Refrigeration,air Conditioning,and mechanical services.

Sure,many maybe able to run mains to our equipment,join up interconnects,that is wire 1 to 1,2 to 2,etc.(and I have seen that done incorrectly as well,even the earth run as an interconnect wire).

But there are virtually none around that actually know how our systems operating and can diagnose faults,know how the refrigerant in the system operates.They don’t even know the electrical side of our equipment.

Yes,as for plumbers,that has appeared here as well,so to get a mechanical services plumbing licence,The qualification needed is a full AC & Refrigerant license,or a completed plumbing apprenticeship.
We need it to run pipe work,work on chilled and condenser water reticulation circuits.
Medical gas has another ticket as well.

As a Sparky myself who specialises in power generation equipment, I shudder when discussing the basics of their control to some other Electricians and sometimes wonder if they should have their fingers anywhere near this equipment. It is very specialised, much like Commercial refrigeration control - those that work on it all the time and understand it are far better placed to work on it safely IMO than someone who may have a ticket but has never worked on it. I'm sure some other Sparkies here may flame me for my opinion but it is just that - my opinion, based on my experiences over 30 years in the Trade, with over 20 of that specifically on generators.

There's always been this back and forth between Sparkies and Fridgies and some of the reasons are valid from both sides. I'm certainly not going to sit here and say no one but an Electrician should work on some gear to be honest as I would be way out of my depth with anything more than a split system - sure there could be drawings I could wade through but would I really understand what's going on as far as the gas, pressures and how these all interact with each other - nope, not a chance, but I'm right at home with any generator big or small, control system, software, mods, etc on these and I don't and wouldn't expect someone who hasn't worked on them before to be able to beyond some basic faultfinding like breakers tripped, etc for the exact same reasons.

Doesn't make things easy as far as legislation goes though, as all sides get in on the act on these things and want to protect their own when it comes to locking down things - which again, isn't black or white IMO.

Just my 2 cents. [smilebigeye]

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Originally Posted by scarry

Conducter size,as an example,if there is, say,a 20A circuit,2.5mm cable,the interconnects must be 2.5mm as well,unless fused in the unit.In fact with a Daikin,the interconnects 240V power go into same terminals as 240v coming into unit,on all the smaller,single phase domestic models.
So cable size can not be dropped down unless the breaker for that circuit is reduced to 16A or less.
But most installers use the 1.5mm cable cos its cheap....and they don't understand the logics of it all.

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Had exactly that happen when I got a split system installed at the Ex’s place not so long ago - New install and supply to be run (I’m too old to be climbing through roofs now so paid to get it done for her) - 2.5 to the outdoor unit, then 1.5 as the interconnect to the indoor unit - I was there at the time and questioned this as I’d put an identical unit in at home a few weeks before (Replacement of a unit I installed 16 years ago so much easier) 😇 Went through it with them as the wiring diagram clearly showed just a loop inside the unit from the incoming power to the connections for the interconnect - no fusing at all - and they ended up admitting that I was right and a 2.5mm interconnect was required - which I made them change. Didn’t think much of it until I saw your post but it must just be the done thing for some reason.

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Originally Posted by Gav 110

I hear the same sad story over hear in WA
“Why are sparkies doing a job that should only be done by qualified refrigeration mechanics”

There are a couple of reasons
1. Installation of a split system AC isn’t rocket science, even people who aren’t sparkies do a two week course and can do it
2. Relates to reason number 1. You’ve been sold out by your governing body
A money grab

No discredit to (most) fridgies, but you should not be playing with electricity unless you’ve done a 4 year electrical apprenticeship, you may (think you) know what your doing but as an electrician I will stand up for my trade no bars hold (or is that no holes barred [emoji12]) and defend the fact that if you want a restricted electrical license then you should allow us to do some restricted refrigeration works
I partitioned NECA into putting pressure on the master plumbers and gasfitters association to reinstate a restricted plumbers license for replacement of electric hot water systems after it was revoked because a few plumbers had a winge about sparkies being allowed to swap over electric hot water systems

Same Same but different

No doubt others will have a different view on things but anyways

Life is such

[emoji106][emoji481][emoji481][emoji481][emoji481][emoji108]

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Actually it is a Wrestling Term

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no holds barred


phrase of hold

• (in wrestling) with no restrictions on the kinds of holds that are used.
  
  
  
  
  
  • used to convey that no rules or restrictions apply in a conflict or dispute.
    "no-holds-barred military action"
    
    
    
    
  
  
  
  
  

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Originally Posted by 4bee

Actually it is a Wrestling Term

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I’ve only ever seen it as a movie title[emoji12]

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Originally Posted by Homestar

Had exactly that happen when I got a split system installed at the Ex’s place not so long ago - New install and supply to be run (I’m too old to be climbing through roofs now so paid to get it done for her) - 2.5 to the outdoor unit, then 1.5 as the interconnect to the indoor unit - I was there at the time and questioned this as I’d put an identical unit in at home a few weeks before (Replacement of a unit I installed 16 years ago so much easier) 😇 Went through it with them as the wiring diagram clearly showed just a loop inside the unit from the incoming power to the connections for the interconnect - no fusing at all - and they ended up admitting that I was right and a 2.5mm interconnect was required - which I made them change. Didn’t think much of it until I saw your post but it must just be the done thing for some reason.

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Exactly, I rest my case.
Over 90% are done like that here,with that blue cable,they look at us like a fool once it’s explained to them:wallbash::wallbash:

And not only are these guys fully qualified “electricians”,they can’t understand WTF we are talking about.

And as I said,the incoming wires on many go into the same terminals as two of the interconnecting cables.[bighmmm]

The other real dumb thing is,when we replace a small split,we always replace the interconnects,but legally,we are not allowed to.We do it properly and are fixing up some other clowns mistake at the same time.

I often wonder how these guys go working out cable sizes for mains?
Surely they must be capable of doing some things properly,as many of them are self employed.

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Originally Posted by Homestar

As a Sparky myself who specialises in power generation equipment, I shudder when discussing the basics of their control to some other Electricians and sometimes wonder if they should have their fingers anywhere near this equipment. It is very specialised, much like Commercial refrigeration control - those that work on it all the time and understand it are far better placed to work on it safely IMO than someone who may have a ticket but has never worked on it. I'm sure some other Sparkies here may flame me for my opinion but it is just that - my opinion, based on my experiences over 30 years in the Trade, with over 20 of that specifically on generators.

There's always been this back and forth between Sparkies and Fridgies and some of the reasons are valid from both sides. I'm certainly not going to sit here and say no one but an Electrician should work on some gear to be honest as I would be way out of my depth with anything more than a split system - sure there could be drawings I could wade through but would I really understand what's going on as far as the gas, pressures and how these all interact with each other - nope, not a chance, but I'm right at home with any generator big or small, control system, software, mods, etc on these and I don't and wouldn't expect someone who hasn't worked on them before to be able to beyond some basic faultfinding like breakers tripped, etc for the exact same reasons.

Doesn't make things easy as far as legislation goes though, as all sides get in on the act on these things and want to protect their own when it comes to locking down things - which again, isn't black or white IMO.

Just my 2 cents. [smilebigeye]

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Your gen stuff would blow my tiny little mind, Gav. [emoji23]

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Originally Posted by rick130

Your gen stuff would blow my tiny little mind, Gav. [emoji23]

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And they are bloody noisey,real noisey,so thats me done.Although with better design,attenuates,etc,the packaged ones are quiet thesis days.

Electrics probably wouldn't be too bad,as the saying goes,a good Fridgie can sort anything[bighmmm][biggrin][thumbsupbig][bigsad]

Many years ago,we had four V16 Diesel,quad turbo gensets in a high rise in the city which had to do a 24 hour test,before hand over.

The turbos glowed in the dark.

The noise was unbelievable.As was the amount of fuel they used for the test.

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Originally Posted by scarry

And they are bloody noisey,real noisey,so thats me done.Although with better design,attenuates,etc,the packaged ones are quiet thesis days.

Electrics probably wouldn't be too bad,as the saying goes,a good Fridgie can sort anything[bighmmm][biggrin][thumbsupbig][bigsad]

Many years ago,we had four V16 Diesel,quad turbo gensets in a high rise in the city which had to do a 24 hour test,before hand over.

The turbos glowed in the dark.

The noise was unbelievable.As was the amount of fuel they used for the test.

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Were those the GM EMD plant in the AMP building?

A mate's family business one time used to ship the fuel to some of the island resorts. He reckoned the plant on Hayman used an almost unbelievable amount of fuel

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Originally Posted by scarry

Exactly, I rest my case.
Over 90% are done like that here,with that blue cable,they look at us like a fool once it’s explained to them:wallbash::wallbash:

And not only are these guys fully qualified “electricians”,they can’t understand WTF we are talking about.

And as I said,the incoming wires on many go into the same terminals as two of the interconnecting cables.[bighmmm]

The other real dumb thing is,when we replace a small split,we always replace the interconnects,but legally,we are not allowed to.We do it properly and are fixing up some other clowns mistake at the same time.




I often wonder how these guys go working out cable sizes for mains?
Surely they must be capable of doing some things properly,as many of them are self employed.

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I often wonder how these guys go working out cable sizes for mains?
Surely they must be capable of doing some things properly,as many of them are self employed.

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Simples, they go to the wholesalers & ask the pimply yoof behind the counter sweeping up. Job done.[bigrolf]