Thread: Are these five school punishments unacceptable?

Originally Posted by Eevo

compared to postive which is giving them a lolly.

i'll give you my 1st year psych txt book if you need to look it up

You may want to review it yourself. You are wrong, again.

Originally Posted by akelly

So you're happy with parents and teachers that use physical violence against kids? That's the way forward is it?

Thought we were talking about discipline not abuse.

Worked for me growing up. Do wrong thing cop a smack (not a beating) = dont think I'll do that again. As someone else said sometimes the punishment was worth the risk mostly not .
Disco mick I think your on the money. Life is full of consequences for the actions we take and whether those consequences are right or wrong we have to live by our choices.

Originally Posted by pizzapete

Thought we were talking about discipline not abuse.

Worked for me growing up. Do wrong thing cop a smack (not a beating) = dont think I'll do that again. As someone else said sometimes the punishment was worth the risk mostly not .
Disco mick I think your on the money. Life is full of consequences for the actions we take and whether those consequences are right or wrong we have to live by our choices.

A physical attack is a physical attack. You are a grown man, how young a kid is it OK for you to strike?

If you want your kids to grow up afraid of you striking them, then go ahead - enjoy the fruits of that in later years.

My parents used to smack me too, right up until I was old enough to smack back. The smacks didn't stop me from doing that thing again, they just made me more sneaky. A typical outcome.

How old a person are you willing to use physical 'discipline' on? Would you use it on a bloke bigger and stronger than you? If not, why not - given it 'works' so well?

Perhaps if kids weren't raised to believe you can control others with physical violence or threats, the world might be a different place?

Cheers,

Adam

Originally Posted by akelly

A physical attack is a physical attack. You are a grown man, how young a kid is it OK for you to strike?

If you want your kids to grow up afraid of you striking them, then go ahead - enjoy the fruits of that in later years.

My parents used to smack me too, right up until I was old enough to smack back. The smacks didn't stop me from doing that thing again, they just made me more sneaky. A typical outcome.

How old a person are you willing to use physical 'discipline' on? Would you use it on a bloke bigger and stronger than you? If not, why not - given it 'works' so well?

Perhaps if kids weren't raised to believe you can control others with physical violence or threats, the world might be a different place?

Cheers,

Adam

Yep you're obviously right. Didn't teach you any respect at all.
A mix of both positive and negative reinforcement is what I believe works. It has so far. I dont go out of my way to hit my child I really dont like having to but after several warnings with no effect then I have resorted to a smack on the bum. Oops it seems to work. But I also make him fully aware of why. Consequences for actions.

For those playing along at home, wondering about the whole 'punishment/reinforcement' thing, here's the cliff notes:

Positive Reinforcement: Giving something pleasurable to increase the likelihood of the desireable behaviour. An example is if a kid does something good, you give them praise (or a sticker, hand stamp, etc...)

Negative Reinforcement: Taking away something unpleasant to increase the likelihood of the desireable behaviour. An example is if a kid cleans their room you stop nagging them.

Negative Punishment: Taking away something pleasant to reduce the likelihood of the undesired behaviour. An example is not getting desert if you don't eat your dinner.

Positive Punishment: Giving something unpleasant to reduce the likelihood of the undesired behaviour. An example is smaking or spanking a kid after they do something wrong.

A couple of traps:

1. Every person is different. What is punishing for some will be reinforcing for others. Some kids may get reinforced by getting whacked (some attention is better than none).

2. Punishment is only punishment if it reduces the problem behaviour. For example, if your kid is talking back and you whack them, but they keep talking back in the future, the whacking is not a punishment for that kid.

3. The person dealing out the punishment can become a 'conditioned punisher'. That means the presence of that person becomes a punishment in itself. Think of kids hiding from their dad because he's the one that uses the strap. You DONT want to be a conditioned punisher to your kids, do you?

4. Reinforcement is better than punishment because it is closer to the way the world works. It also rewards positive behaviour, which is much better than punishing failure. The other big advantage is that it feels good to give reinforcement.

5. The best, cheapest and most effective reinforcement available to humans is praise. Tell someone they are doing a great job and they will keep doing it. It has to be sincere though - people can spot a BS line!

These concepts are pretty poorly understood by most people. I hope this little post clears it up.

Cheers,

Adam

Originally Posted by pizzapete

Yep you're obviously right. Didn't teach you any respect at all.
A mix of both positive and negative reinforcement is what I believe works. It has so far. I dont go out of my way to hit my child I really dont like having to but after several warnings with no effect then I have resorted to a smack on the bum. Oops it seems to work. But I also make him fully aware of why. Consequences for actions.

So basically, when you run out of ideas to control your kid's behaviour, you resort to violence.

What an excellent approach.

Originally Posted by akelly

So basically, when you run out of ideas to control your kid's behaviour, you resort to violence.

What an excellent approach.

Whatever turns you on mate. Gotta love the PC brigade. My kid is neither verbally or physically abused. Suppose you want to criminalise the use of crops in horse racing to. Yet another form of physical abuse. Ban boxing?

Originally Posted by pizzapete

Whatever turns you on mate. Gotta love the PC brigade. My kid is neither verbally or physically abused. Suppose you want to criminalise the use of crops in horse racing to. Yet another form of physical abuse. Ban boxing?

You shouldn't suppose what others think mate. You should just ask. That way you don't look like such a pillock, dragging up red herring arguments to change the subject.

What you do with your kids is your business, not mine. I'm telling you what I think and know - read it, don't read it, agree, disagree. It's all the same to me.

Cheers,

Adam