Thread: High performance cars and young drivers

Originally Posted by isuzurover

Another "in my day we could handle big HP..."

Those arguments fall flat...

In your day the road toll was much higher... Despite the lower population and less traffic on the roads...

Surely most can remember the muscle car incidents which lead to the death of the GTHO among others...



http://www.cycle-helmets.com/imgs/ro...-australia.gif

That is largely rubbish. Even the GTHO by todays standards is hardly extreme high performance car. The reason there were more fatalities is cars like the GTHO is they handled like trucks, lsot traction easily and could not brake and those that have driven them hard if honest will admit. They also had no driver aids, air bags etc Hence in a bad accident had higher fatality and injury rates. I grew up around these cars and even a standard low level car will have as good if not better performance than a lot of these Muscle Cars. I own a SS Torana and I tell you what my daughters BMW 323 would flog it. Look at the real facts, in relation to cars, population etc the stats have shown a marked decrease in injury and fatality rates per registered vehicle numbers and drivers and yet the cars have actually got much better performance. Take the ABS, traction control, air bags etc out and watch the fatalities increase dramatically. The accidents still happen, people just don not lose their lives as often. The single biggest killer is still people not wearing seat belts.

If you look at those statistics, coming from 1970 where there were about 3798 deaths in a population of 12.5 million, compared to the latest of around 1464 in 21 million. That's how many die in China on the roads in 5 or 6 days.

I'm not saying that those 1464 are not in any way unimportant, but they are statistically a very small number. I think we very much are getting down towards the "**** happens" kind of number of deaths, where it is incredibly difficult to influence it downwards any further, and there are greater fish to fry.

If life is so precious, then concentrate on the bigger numbers. Like the 15000 or so who died from smoking related disease in 2003.

May be a controversial point of view, but if we are so desperate to legislate to save lives, let's make it count.

Originally Posted by tony66_au

Simply?

The part of the brain that is responsible for decision making/judgement calls is not fully developed in young "Adults" and doesn't finish developing until the early to mid 20's.

Add to this that changing nature of kids these days and their failure to accept consequence and you have an issue.

Sure im painting with broad strokes and there are exceptions to the rule but P platers are behind the 8 ball from the beginning.

And with changes in the roads, cars and attitudes over the last 40 or so years the deck is well stacked against new drivers so we cant just blame the kids for this.

Mums and Dads who dont parent properly in some areas are an issue, teaching L platers in the family wagon is an issue and not allowing enough time for the Professional instructors to do their jobs is also an issue.

Im not going into the parenting thing because its a minefield of opinion and emotion and even im not dumb enough to open that can of worms but the Mum and Dad Sunday morning drive thing is worth a mention.

Most of us parents have been driving for 20 or so years by the time we have to strap ourselves in the passenger seat with Lil Johnny at the wheel and very few of us have ever been re-tested and most of us are not familiar with changes in road law which sometimes becomes painfully apparent when the kids get their learners book.

As a result id wager that a huge percentage of us would fail a learners test miserably if we were to sit one without studying and the VicRoads online practice exams are a good way to check this for Victorians and im sure the RTA has similar for other states.

So blissfully ignorant we venture out when the roads are dead quiet and pass our bad habits and sometimes ignorance of the law on to our kids which Driving instructors then have to iron out.

So heres the other issue, I know we are expensive and in rural areas a pain in the bum to get to (A lot dont do home pickups in rural areas so you have to bring your kids to them) but we are often a vital part of the checks and balances when it comes to your Kids surviving their first 12 months on P plates.

Early on in the 120 hours book your kid in with an instructor, even if its to get the ball rolling and save you some grey hair and clutch material, often the first lesson is free and 2 lessons will do the trick and this also saves you a bit of grief.

Remember that we have pedals on our side :-)

Then again about half way through its helpful to knock off some of the cockiness kids develop to throw them into the hands of an instructor who is trained to handle the sometimes inflated ego of the hormone and pride inflated maniacs some kids turn into AND some instructors will let you ride along in the left rear seat if you ask and promise to be totally silent unless engaged in chat by the instructor (Which is a great way to get the kids used to when the tester sits in the back) and you can pick up a few tricks while you ride along.

Finally, Do not allow your kids to book in for the test on their Birthday.... Either book it yourself when you feel they are ready or let the instructor tell you when your Child is ready and/or book the test for you.

To book in as soon as they are legally able to sit the test adds pressure at an age where they already have more than enough on their plates and if you control this aspect of their life it also gives the kids someone to blame when their mates apply social pressure re this cruel cruel denial of their "right" to operate a car by themselves.

Industry figures show that it usually takes between 9 and 12 lessons to gain an automatic license and a bit more for a Manual ticket and I have to say that when I re-certified 5 ish years ago the hardest part for me was relearning to drive like a good L plater to demonstrate that I had learned what was taught and could apply this knowledge.

Hope this all helps,
Tony

Good God, you hit a few nails on the head there. This biggest problem I've had constantly is when parents have tried teaching their kids and then I've spent extra time undoing the damage.

There's no way virtually anyone who's had a licence for more than about the last five or ten years really knows what the test involves or what the finer points are. The idiotic things I've had students tell me that their parents had taught them has been a real eye-opener. No wonder there are so many bad drivers on the road - because so many don't know what to do in the first place. And I'll most humbly admit that my driving was pretty bad until I trained for this job.

An interesting situation up here is that almost all of my Aboriginal students don't have an I-own-the-road attitude, and have also been driving since they were around 8 or 10 years old. As a result, technically they're usually excellent and only have a few bad habits, such as taking off the handbrake first. So, I just have to work on that as well as teaching them what they certainly don't know, which is safe driving in town and road rules.

But my non-Aboriginal students have usually started driving late, sometimes with me, sometimes with Dad, and are way, way behind in the actual driving of a car, which just goes to show how many hours you really need. Then I've got to try and undo all the damage Dad has done with his teaching that dates from about 1925, and then there's either a lot of overconfidence, (for boys), or too much underconfidence, (for girls). My kids will be learning as soon as they can reach the pedals.

What almost everybody has in common is being in a big hurry for their licence, however nobody uses my car for a test unless I've booked it, and I don't book it until I'm sure they're up to the standard. This can cause some whining. But I'm more interested in good teaching than cutting corners. It's this being in a hurry that causes the most problems. People hit the road before they're ready since driving isn't seen as an important skill worth cultivating.

The test itself is a piece of cake and anyone can pass it if they just learn all the little things I drone on about. Whether you bump a curb while parking isn't the point - it's whether you know where your car is, and whether you're really in control of it at all times that's important.

The test doesn't cover highway driving or dirt roads, both of which you'll spend a lot of time on up here. After a few horrendous crashes in the area, I now teach a lot of that driving to give my students a better chance of surviving by learning from someone with the experience instead of figuring it out for themselves through a series of near-misses - which is how I learned.

One thing that I have been noticing over the last few years, when visiting shopping centres and crowded car parks is the number of cars that cannot park straight between the lines.The flow on effect is the next one has to park a bit over to the side and so on . This may seem inconsequential, but to my way of thinking it means that that person has no pride about how they drive, or park their car and no consideration for others around them.

That is the crux of the problem, they are in their own little bubble and when someone comes near that bubble they want to challenge them and win a battle, without proper control of their weapons.

Does that make sense ??

I've had a few beers

we can tell

Originally Posted by dullbird

we can tell

Thanks for your support Lou.

I'm just trying to say it's all about attitude and thinking about the people around you.

Peace and Love Everyone

Originally Posted by Debacle

One thing that I have been noticing over the last few years, when visiting shopping centres and crowded car parks is the number of cars that cannot park straight between the lines.The flow on effect is the next one has to park a bit over to the side and so on . This may seem inconsequential, but to my way of thinking it means that that person has no pride about how they drive, or park their car and no consideration for others around them.

That is the crux of the problem, they are in their own little bubble and when someone comes near that bubble they want to challenge them and win a battle, without proper control of their weapons.

Does that make sense ??

I've had a few beers

Yep. Makes sense. I deal with that every workday at the train station.
(Sometimes I'm a complete bastard and park inches from their drivers door.)
Have you noticed, though, the car parking spaces are getting smaller.

Originally Posted by Tombie

Some of the worst drivers I have observed are Driving Instructors..

Especially considering most teach the kids "how to pass" and often not concerned with the finer points...

Went through this with 2 Teenage lads... Multiple driving schools and much frustration...

Next time you're out people - watch the Driving Instructor cars.... Particularly when they are driving solo (no student)...

Ok I'll bite...........

You are partially correct.

Im 46 and im probably the exception to the rule because I have been for most of my working life a professional driver, I watch other drivers closely and I have seen Instructors do godawful things in their cars that they should be slapped around for, I have also gone and "Spoken" to a few really bad ones but like any industry there are burnt out instructors.

Heres the thing though,
When I started training youngsters there was no formal training or certification and all you needed was a car and voila! you were in business.

I worked for a guy who had 5 cars and started out doing weekends to pay a few bills starting at 6am and often finishing well after 9pm and then going back to work Monday morning for my normal job.

My training was in the form of some cheat sheets his missus had typed up to show how the flow of a lesson should go and they were pretty good for what they were and helped me figure it out.

I took it on myself to read the learners book and away we went with the first 5 or so lessons being an awful stuffup thinking back

There are still instructors out there who started back then who havent re educated and merely got the required police checks as they came in and still teach kids how to pass the test and this is where my next bit comes in.

Not all instructors teach the same things.

Some teach how to pass the test, Some actually teach how to drive and some teach a system of car control derived from police training methods.

I started out doing the first 2 and ended up doing all 3 based on the System of car control, Do I practice what I preach?

Sure but I have always driven this way.

Do I speed occasionally and do naughty stuff?

Allegedly

But I also enjoy motorsports and fanging about on dirt sideways where the driving rules are a bit different.....

Are there crappy driver trainers?

Absoflogginglutely, miserable old farts and crabby sour girls who shouldn't be doing what they do and not a week goes past when someone doesn't tell me a story about their experiences with Learner instructors.

I feel bad for em, really I do.

And im still tempted to go back to teaching kids to drive and all it would take is 30 Thousand bucks and a months retraining/catchup.

And then I look at how kids have changed in the last 5 years and wonder if $50 an hour is worth the hassle.