Thread: RIP Defender....

Again you guys just don't get it....

There's no profit in them.... And there's a multitude of alternatives already.

The Defender is the most expensive vehicle to build. It's utilitarian design provides **** all ROPS, little occupant protection, already contains enough electronics that it doesn't matter.

And aside from payload is less capable off road than newer offerings.

It's cargo capacity (110 wagon) is unique due to door design. The wheels offset to the driver etc etc. none of which suits the 21st century.

I love them. I would have one right now as a play toy.

But they do nothing that a better built, far more comfortable, quieter vehicle can do.

Like Harley Davidsons, which have been churning out the same old image for decades; the Defender sells more on image than capability. Even HD realise they can't comply their motorcycles in the future without change (hence V-Rod).

The new whatever they get will be no doubt a capable vehicle.

As for the shovels, pens etc....
Ergonomic chairs exist because their form serves a purpose.
Ergonomic pens help people write easier without injury
Those shovels work. I've used one for hours without getting a sore back - the std ones work, but they make your back ache.

Plain foam lined seats and fans worked in SME. Now you won't get an operator in a digger, loader, dumpy if its not suspension seated, climate controlled, power steered...

Even Dump trucks had to evolve.

It's all very well for those of you who regularly buy a brand new vehicle from the showroom floor to be perfectly happy for the Defender to move upmarket and up the price range.

There are people who never have and probably never will buy a new car. They are probably affected more by such a move by Land Rover and other manufacturers.

There was a time when a quite reliable second hand vehicle could be bought for today's equivalent of a couple of thousand dollars. If it broke down, it could be fixed by anyone with a modicum of mechanical knowledge and a few few simple tools. Even if you had to resort to getting a mechanic to work on it, there were not very many things to go wrong and keeping the vehicle on the road was quite cheap.

On modern vehicles there are many more things to go wrong, fewer things that can be diagnosed without specialist equipment and the cost of even quite simple repairs or even regular services can cost an arm and a leg.

When a Series Land Rover failed to proceed, there were only a couple of things that might have caused the problem. When a modern Discovery grinds to a halt or goes into limp mode, if I can believe what I have read on this forum, it is likely to need some sort of computerised diagnostic device to even work out what the problem is.

As cars become more sophisticated, it isn't the new car buyers who will suffer. They will probably trade it in as soon as the warranty runs out. It is the second hand car buyers who will suffer because of the complexity of the vehicle, the extra things that can and do go wrong and the cost of keeping the vehicle roadworthy.

The huge number of Defender owners who buy second hand want something that is made from materials that will last, not some sort of plastic that will turn to powder in the Australian sun. They want rugged simplicity so that there is at least some of the maintenance that they can do themselves.

If the Defender looks anything like some of the concept vehicles that have appeared in recent years, the new car buyers will still manage quite well, but in a few years second hand buyers will have a real problem.

Originally Posted by Tombie

Again you guys just don't get it....

And here we are pretty sure that you don't get it.

For me this is not about the good old days. And besides the current defender is still here, its still selling, it's not hit relic status just yet. The current defender has come along from the series 1 and it could continue to progress with a new model.

If land rover do not want to build a utility 4x4 any more then they should shelve the defender. I have no doubt that a utility 4x4 worthy of succeeding the current defender can be done to modern standards. But will they do it or will they sell out all its values on some luxury DC100 type crap?

That is the point.

Yes market economics, supply and demand, current defender does not meet today's expectations.... but we are talking about a new defender. No one here is saying make it exactly the same, or don't make one.

So Land Rover if you are listening please don't make some generic 4x4 family ferry for people like Tombie! They have enough of those to choose from already.

Originally Posted by vnx205

It's all very well for those of you who regularly buy a brand new vehicle from the showroom floor to be perfectly happy for the Defender to move upmarket and up the price range.

There are people who never have and probably never will buy a new car. They are probably affected more by such a move by Land Rover and other manufacturers.

There was a time when a quite reliable second hand vehicle could be bought for today's equivalent of a couple of thousand dollars. If it broke down, it could be fixed by anyone with a modicum of mechanical knowledge and a few few simple tools. Even if you had to resort to getting a mechanic to work on it, there were not very many things to go wrong and keeping the vehicle on the road was quite cheap.

On modern vehicles there are many more things to go wrong, fewer things that can be diagnosed without specialist equipment and the cost of even quite simple repairs or even regular services can cost an arm and a leg.

When a Series Land Rover failed to proceed, there were only a couple of things that might have caused the problem. When a modern Discovery grinds to a halt or goes into limp mode, if I can believe what I have read on this forum, it is likely to need some sort of computerised diagnostic device to even work out what the problem is.

As cars become more sophisticated, it isn't the new car buyers who will suffer. They will probably trade it in as soon as the warranty runs out. It is the second hand car buyers who will suffer because of the complexity of the vehicle, the extra things that can and do go wrong and the cost of keeping the vehicle roadworthy.

The huge number of Defender owners who buy second hand want something that is made from materials that will last, not some sort of plastic that will turn to powder in the Australian sun. They want rugged simplicity so that there is at least some of the maintenance that they can do themselves.

If the Defender looks anything like some of the concept vehicles that have appeared in recent years, the new car buyers will still manage quite well, but in a few years second hand buyers will have a real problem.

Not sure about that. I'm one of those buyers that always buys second hand, cheap, and maintains the car myself. Wen I moved from my 86 Navara to a 2000 TD5 Disco 2.5yrs ago, I was convinced that my time of home mechaniking was over. Anyway, now the proud owner of a Nanocom, I think the only work that I've had anyone else do for me is fitting 4 new tyres, and servicing the alternator (which I removed myself). And I'm 'just a maths teacher' (as I've been told)

Don't panic, they don't like the cold steel up 'em! Take a bex & calm down, real Land Rover drivers will still be able to have their fix.

Defender to be built in Sri Lanka
From Land Rover Monthly, June 2013;

" Although the veteran Defenders days are numbered in the UK, it is about to get a new lease of life in Sri Lanka, where a local company has announced plans to build a plant to assemble the vehicles

They will be built by SML Frontier Automotive, a subsidiary of Sathosa Motors. Sri Lanka's Daily news reported that production is expected to commence late this year. The company will be investing US $1 million to build the plant on land near Hambantota Port, into which the completely knocked- down [ CKD] parts would arrive from the UK. Sansosa Motors, the Parent firm, already has the agency for Japan's Isuzu brand.

Although the current Defender is due to be phased out in 2015 in Europe & North America to meet stringent emissions & safety laws, the new move raises the question of whether the 30 year old workhorse will continue being produced in the third World for years to come. "

vnx205 Amen to that

I have never, will never, buy a new car.

but I do know the new car feeling, as I used to have them for work, the feeling lasts a month or so and then it was just another POS

The feeling I get when I drive my Defender is the same each time never wears off, the smile never goes away.


Thanks Tombie, I dislike Harleys but the penny just dropped, Now I get why Harley riders love their bikes, exactly same as we love our Defenders.

If your a Harley Rider , why don't you just move with the times (and get a Vstrom ), yah right

Originally Posted by Pinelli

Not sure about that. I'm one of those buyers that always buys second hand, cheap, and maintains the car myself. Wen I moved from my 86 Navara to a 2000 TD5 Disco 2.5yrs ago, I was convinced that my time of home mechaniking was over. Anyway, now the proud owner of a Nanocom, I think the only work that I've had anyone else do for me is fitting 4 new tyres, and servicing the alternator (which I removed myself). And I'm 'just a maths teacher' (as I've been told)

Try buying a D3 or D4 and doing the same though... As well as the equivalent of a nanocom you will also need a hoist to lift the body off the chassis for most major jobs (and some minor).

IMHO I consider the D3 and D4 fat, ugly, heavy, expensive and full of a bunch of stuff that I don't want or need.

The RRS is slightly better but even more expensive.

I want to see one of these D3/D4/RRS that is supposed to be better offroad than a defender. All those I have seen have great suspension and traction control, but are let down in many, many other ways. For starters they wouldn't fit down many of the tracks my 110 has been down. They may be a more comfortable touring vehicle than a defender, and better to access the interior, but they are inferior in so many ways.

Many of the issues that vnx205 talks about are due to emissions requirements, however the G-Wagen professional is a much more serviceable vehicle than the D3/D4/RRS.

However I think it is inevitable that the defender will either disappear, or end up as a cheap disco with a different body, fewer features and less capability.

It would be nice if Landrover brought out a next generation defender that was a like a sensibly priced version of the G-Professional, but I cannot see that happening.

Originally Posted by Tombie

As for the shovels, pens etc....
Ergonomic chairs exist because their form serves a purpose.
Ergonomic pens help people write easier without injury
Those shovels work. I've used one for hours without getting a sore back - the std ones work, but they make your back ache.

Plain foam lined seats and fans worked in SME. Now you won't get an operator in a digger, loader, dumpy if its not suspension seated, climate controlled, power steered...

Even Dump trucks had to evolve.

Interesting observation, you younger generation are soft little petals, aren't you. Thank goodness the people who pioneered this country were made of sterner stuff. Bob