What the heck, it was Scotland at the beginning of the thread, was it not? Let them have independence, they will still be part of the Union, & the Commonwealth. For that matter, join Ireland up as well. Bob
Royal Scots Dragoon Guards - YouTube
Printable View
What the heck, it was Scotland at the beginning of the thread, was it not? Let them have independence, they will still be part of the Union, & the Commonwealth. For that matter, join Ireland up as well. Bob
Royal Scots Dragoon Guards - YouTube
So how does Scotland benefit from all this?. Pat
They get to re-build Hadrian's Wall and keep the royalties from North Sea oil and gas production, but will likely lose the military and naval bases as well as further shipbuilding contracts for the Royal Navy.Quote:
Originally Posted by PAT303
They have been fighting and dieing for this for over a thousand years - simply the right of independence and self determination.Quote:
Originally Posted by PAT303
After independence they can determine what sort of relationship they have with GB and the rest of the world. I am sure that arrangements can be put in place with GB that allow economic and other issues remain, sorted amended.
If they do not vote for independence then they will be part of England forever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies
That is pure speculation, based on hearsay. Give the Scots & the Brits more credit. They will work it out. Bob
So you don't think the current Jacobites will remember the Duke of Cumberland? :D
Without royalties from the North Sea fields, Scotland will have very little industry to pay the taxes required for infrastructure and social services in Scotland. Very few large shipbuilding still exists on the Clyde, mostly that work now goes to Korea, even Cunard is using French shipbuilders, so the remaining work is the Royal Navy. If there is no agreement for a shared military between what will be two soverign nations, then you can hardly assume that the United Kingdom of England, Wales and Northern Ireland will be contracting Shipbuilding to the Clyde when Harland and Wolfe in Belfast could step in to the work and employ UK citizens instead of Scots.
It may come to naught, but it will be an interesting referendum to watch.
You mean the Harland and Wolfe that is owned by Nordskib, a Norwegian company? The Olson family.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies
Not much industry left in England either after Marg Thatcher's fell and burn assault on English industry. Do you know what all the great engineering companies of the north of England and the Clyde have in common? They no longer exist.
And the mealy-mouthed two faced perfidious poms have a damn cheek calling it an "Act of Union". They invaded, defeated, suppressed, and oppressed the Scots. I am sure the Scots have long memories
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies
The Scots are far too canny to be caught short , and the Brits are far to smart to let it happen. Some where in the middle, very similar to the Asian saving face, I would say. Bob
Quote:
Originally Posted by rangietragic
And they do, here they come .... :)
Don't want another Bannockburn or Culloden Moor but there are probably a few facts that need to be intelligently discussed:
- Did or did not Scotland have it's own Monarchy, Parliament, Government, Tender, Army, etc, etc ... before over half a millennium of invasions took their toll? The later part is less than cut and dried but the former is solid....Scotland was an independent Entity.
So really the conversation can probably stop there. If the UK Government (which has disproportionate English or English leaning representation) decide that they can let Scotland go, then they should do something to help .... can't use the words I want due to the Mods .... but hey, they broke it, they should fix it. I don't mean hand-outs ... that traffic usually went to the percentage of the ~ 50 Million in England and surrounds. I mean, they have strategic, governance, financial, ... blah, blah, blah concerns that need to be intelligently addressed. England dismembered Scotland's mechanisms and if they are serious about letting go they should assist in reinstating that. I know that lots of in-roads have occurred in that regard already.
However, if they disagree well then just state that and live by it. Don't pretend to be something else. Don't pretend to the world that you'd consider the break up of the UK, if you don't mean it.
I'm Very, very suspicious of the British concern and headlines "Cameron Begs Scotland" ... really? There is an agenda here that has nothing to do with the Scots or Scotland. Altruism is not in that dictionary.
There have been almost Putin'istic threats ..."we'll (Britain Speaking) trash your economy, Jobs will go South, etc, etc. Is that the dialog of a friendly neighbours who's (Scotland) Countrymen have shed, so, so much blood for Britain (read England) just like Australia has? Can't you be two countries and still have workers move between, have Defence Pacts, etc? ...
Oh, that's right ... I work for a Canadian Company and yet I'm allowed to talk to them on the phone and visit them , etc ... what is with that threat? Lucky I live in Australia! Crazy threats.
Has Australia suffered from independence, was Australia 'threatened that way?' The answer is no!
So why is the British Pound floundering, world leaders calling for it not to happen ... threats being proffered? Amazing for a country that has been treated like a poor cousin for centuries, as have many others .... suddenly Scotland is so important. Go figure?
Some serious digging is required .... other than the raping of Scotland ....Oil, steel, coal, etc, etc .....how much left now? How much per capita has Scotland (the welfare state claimed by some British folk) put into the British economy ......?
So is the British concern economic or Strategic? .... it will be F all about Scotland I wager!
Anyway ...complex issue ... who knows the answer ... after 300 years of no identity, real political identity ... and the economical independence that comes with that ... who knows?
Back to the point .... is independence right? ... probably yes .... it's not like QLD V NSW for the uninitiated. Scots and Poms/Brits have slaughtered each other for a long time. But they have also fought to the death to protect each other ... so one would hope that the old stigma has been withdrawn to the soccer or Rugby match only ... but they are a very different people. It's probably not as bad as the French Vs German comparison but fundamentally it is.
However, the question still hovers, the referendum is real .... the British concern is real ... so this is a topic of gravity.
I just don't get the threats, the nastiness ... treat it like Australia and Canada, etc .... always fought and died together but don't need to be 'that' together! If there are strategic concerns ... don't freakin Bulldoze them ... discuss .... i'd be really surprised if an independent Scottish Government did something to compromise the former Britain.
The referendum will probably fail, but it should be a wake-up call to the British Government to stop being a passive bully and let the real "United Kingdom have it's say.
If there was enough oil in the North Sea and Scotland could claim it, I'd say Bye Bye Britain ....
But hey, that's me and what would I know. :)
As a CAMPBELL I believe that Culloden is oft taken out of contextQuote:
Originally Posted by Celtoid
And we are still faithful to the cause to this day...