Scottish Vote: What happens to the Union Flag if?

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Originally Posted by London Boy

Which Act of Union are you talking about? Remember, if you will, that England took a Scottish king, not the other way round. And when the Stuarts were booted out, more Scots fought to throw them out than did to keep them.

You should also look at the Darien scheme, which was a comprehensive Scottish failure to acquire an empire. It ruined Scotland's economy and Scotland accepted union as the price for England to bail them out. Not an unreasonable trade, looked at pragmatically.

And while you're making ill-judged statements about perfidious Albion, remember also that the clearances were done by Scottish landowners, not the English. And Culloden was the result of an attempt by the Italian drunk, Charles Edward Stuart, to claim the thrones of England, Scotland and Ireland. And the suppression of the highlands was driven by lowland Scots, central belt merchants and landowners who had joined the English adn European economy and adopted mercantile habits.

Not all one way traffic. Just a pity that so many Scots seem to feel the need to keep fighting Bannockburn.

Of course I speak as someone with English and Scottish grandparents, who has lived for many years in England and in Scotland, and is married to a Scottish Highlander. I'm well across the topic.

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So at no point did the Scots just want to be left alone?

You are talking a grey area in History when trying to find a Scot in the nobility of Scotland would be impossible ... if you take my meaning. Including the landowners. There was always a thread or a connection. These disastrous situations when people that had their own agendas came to play in England and Scotland .... very much in England due to the population difference (size).

We could talk about this till the cows come home ...


But .... why ... why now does Scotland (or so many of ... oh that's right ... there are shed loads of English still living in Scotland) want to be free? Why now?


History is tainted.... Very tainted.


Let's look at the Time Scales ... (I'm Generalising)


Kenneth McAlpine ... I think around the 800's ... no English to be seen.


After that ... Celto - Viking - Anglo inter-marriage


Robert The (De) Bruce 1200's ... after far too many years of incursions ... but English were clearly out (Norman) ... the older Invaders were in but Scottish leaning.....but at least RDB married a Celt!


Highland clearances .... late 1700's ... after any remnant of Scottish resistance was gone after hundreds of years of insidious incursions and the, as you stated, idiotic following of nobility .... oh, did I overstep? Sorry, I don't do Royalty! Farcical concept that they are any better than you or I....blessed by God .... who says? Anywho ....


So a few years had passed ... oh, that's half a millennium. What were the Scots doing then ... wanting and planning to be English or part of the UK? ... very much doubt it!


The Darien Scheme ... yeah that was Scotland talking ... some Alan Bond or Christopher Skase ... nothing more nothing less!



The Highland Clearances ... yeah 'Scottish' Landowners with Redcoats in support... just look up the diaries and stories and look at the paintings and decide how Scottish these people were.

And of course ... Where did a lot of the victims of the Highland clearances go? .... Oh that would be America! Another chapter.

Do you think the Americans started the war of independence by just waking up one day and saying "hey, love you guys, it's not about you, it's about us ... But we feel it's time that you moved on! I'm thinking not.

Yeah, you're well across the topic ....


Neither you nor I can ascertain the mindset of the ancient Scottish Kings or people ... they may have been happy to sit with what they had ... they were not a Germanic based Culture like the Post-Roman Brits and whilst there are similarities in their genesis, they were and still are a very different people.


But as I said ...past history, why are we discussing that? ... so why the issue?... cut Scotland adrift ... there should be no issue .... I just don't get all the frothing around ... England looking after little brother Scotland ... a bit like in Gallipoli and other war fronts when the Scots, Irish, Australians and other Colonials got pushed into the meat-grinder .... nah, no plan there! I smell a rat!


I don't think it will happen, as in secession .... but there is no altruism in England's concern ... England is scared of the hurt that it will feel.

An interesting comment I saw many years ago that has not been raised in this discussion - "If Scotland had not been in union with the rest of the UK, there would never have been a Labour government in Westminster".

I do not know whether this is accurate, but it is very unlikely that the average distribution of voting in England and Scotland are exactly the same, and the absence of the Scottish vote could be expected to have a significant effect on the parties in Westminster. Maybe this is why we have all the politicians campaigning against secession.

John

:eek: What??!


Fury over military ban in Scottish referendum - World - NZ Herald News

Happens here all the time if you are posted interstate you vote in the state and council election for the area you live in. I wonder if WA was to vote on leaving the commonwealth would they give the vote to expats living in NSW:wasntme:

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Originally Posted by windsock

:eek: What??!


Fury over military ban in Scottish referendum - World - NZ Herald News

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Surprise, surprise, surprise ....

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Tens of thousands of Scots living south of the border, and around the world, have complained about the fact they are not given a vote.

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The above I have quoted from the article.

Why should these tens of thousands have a vote?
They are not there, they left. If it was that good they would still be there!
I dont get or have a vote in UK elections, I dont live there

pretty simple to me

I suppose employment could be generated by having what little shipbuilding capacity left on the Clyde (is there any?) build ships for the Neilsens of Barra to resume their old trade of monitoring merchant shipping in the Irish Sea.

It would be good to have a flag which had all its elements being local instead of imported. That's the main advantage of the Aboriginal flag I think - we all know its home-grown, like the Canadians have the maple leaf. Our current flag is almost indistinguishable from the NZ flag and doesn't represent modern Australian multicultural society. It divides us instead of uniting us. We need a flag which EVERYONE, not just some, can identify with. My opinion.

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

It would be good to have a flag which had all its elements being local instead of imported. That's the main advantage of the Aboriginal flag I think - we all know its home-grown, like the Canadians have the maple leaf. Our current flag is almost indistinguishable from the NZ flag and doesn't represent modern Australian multicultural society. It divides us instead of uniting us. We need a flag which EVERYONE, not just some, can identify with. My opinion.

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yeah, agree, but problem is that what identifies for me is different for you.
e.g. you might want a fish and I want a bicycle.
then the state governments would want their bit and then...

OK, it can't be that hard to get an agreement. Lets just chuck in the Southern Cross over a roo jumping across a desert pockmarked with mines, with snowy mountains in the background, towards a harbor. Surely we could all agree that represents us - yes?