Thread: Any news of the new Defender?

Originally Posted by scarry

It must be the worlds best kept secret.

With all the social media around,its a wonder something hasn't got out.

I get that inkling that the only reason we havent had any leaks (unlike a defender ) is twofold.

Land Rover development have great security (again unlike a defender)

or

They still haven't worked out how to please everyone and so haven't actually yet made a new prototype!!!

It's pretty simple, if they make the 'defender' replacement aerodynamic, I agree w Pat, it won't be a defender anymore. (...worrying signs with disco sport). If they lose the simple boxy practicality and heavy duty nature of Defender, it will flop. (A frightening comparison to consider is the new Patrol!). I fear the worst I have to say.

There is an epidemic of city centric designers who never leave the bitumen, taking over and thinking that designing vehicles that have the 'look' of being rugged and capable, is what the market wants. When it needs to be the other way round...defender is great because it has always put practicality before bling. I'm not confident JLR designers 'get' this. Even Discovery as great as it is, looks more bling all the time and in terms of bushability (of which 90% of this continent still requires) is clearly less and less practical.

This is the market niche that is wide open right now, with Toyota and Nissan dropping the ball. But will Land Rover step up with an awesome, practical, simple and truly heavy-duty design? I doubt it, because they don't take the bush seriously. There are basically only 3 official Land Rover dealer/repairers anywhere north of Adelaide or Perth! That's 60%+ of the continent!

...maybe they'll offer lifetime Land Rover assist with every new bling spaceship Defender? Doubt it.

I hope I'm wrong!!

Originally Posted by slug_burner

Aerodynamic rule book!

a) Who said aerodynamics have to be a major influence on the design of offroad vehicles?

b) You can have an aerodynamic design without having the windscreen slope of almost all current cars - as an example, the Citroen D series has a windscreen that is near vertical , not much more slope than a Defender, but has a Cx lower than 90% of today's cars. One way of achieving this is to break the airflow away from the bonnet well in front of the windscreen - I have often thought of trying the effect of a bar of vortex generators across the bonnet of the 110 at the point it stops curving. And, of course, the rear does not need to be sloped at all, just needs to cleanly break the airflow away.

But an offroad vehicle is never going to have good aerodynamics - the need for good approach and departure angles and good groundclearance, plus adequate clearance round tyres to avoid jamming with sticky mud or jamming rocks and sticks means you are always going to have turbulant flow underneath.

John

Originally Posted by JDNSW

a) Who said aerodynamics have to be a major influence on the design of offroad vehicles?

b) You can have an aerodynamic design without having the windscreen slope of almost all current cars - as an example, the Citroen D series has a windscreen that is near vertical , not much more slope than a Defender, but has a Cx lower than 90% of today's cars. One way of achieving this is to break the airflow away from the bonnet well in front of the windscreen - I have often thought of trying the effect of a bar of vortex generators across the bonnet of the 110 at the point it stops curving. And, of course, the rear does not need to be sloped at all, just needs to cleanly break the airflow away.

But an offroad vehicle is never going to have good aerodynamics - the need for good approach and departure angles and good groundclearance, plus adequate clearance round tyres to avoid jamming with sticky mud or jamming rocks and sticks means you are always going to have turbulant flow underneath.

John

Great post John, agreed. The question is, will JLR design a new off road vehicle that is robust, simple and will have the practical longevity of the iconic series/defender? Or succumb to the dominant city centric idea of giving it the 'look' of being robust, rather than being truly heavy duty? ...Most are focussed on what the 'new defender' will 'look' like...this is a big mistake.

I reckon that the way Defenders are being stolen in the UK is the reason. Someone has nicked off with the plans

Originally Posted by MrLandy

G.......Most are focussed on what the 'new defender' will 'look' like...this is a big mistake.

I wholeheartedly agree. We see a lot of discussion about looks - and none, or virtually none on the things that really matter - (no particular order)

Maintainability, durability, wheel travel, versatility, approach and departure angles, multiple body types, range, wading depth, use of readily available tyre sizes, wiper blade types, filters etc, service intervals and costs, tolerance to poor grade fuels, load capacity, towing capacity, and so on.

While looking reasonable is a plus, it has to come well down on the list for anyone buying a workhorse.

John

John,a 2T 4wd is different to a small car,Land Rover have no choice but to make the defender replacement aerodynamic,it kills two birds with one stone,it makes it pedestrian safe and cuts fuel use so makes it easier to get past pollution standards.MrLandy,the days of fixing vehicles with gaffer tape and fencing wire are long gone,look at the positive instead,we can buy a defender fitted with a 4 cylinder engine that will tow 2T at 100 all day and return 14ltr/100 and 10k between servicing,do you really want to go back to a 1HZ that will struggle to sit on 80 under the same conditions while using 20ltr/100 and twice the amount of servicing with almost twice the amount of oil per service?. Pat

Love your work Pat, but that's exactly my point...the real challenge is to design something that takes contemporary thinking / tech on board AND is deceptively simple, robust, practical. This combination has always been the pinnacle of great design IMHO and is precisely why series/defender land rovers are so great. ...I'm concerned that the signs are there however, that the new LR icon won't be up to the job physically. That the vehicle design fashionistas don't understand that great design starts with purpose not a 'look'. To be a defender it must be fit for purpose as first priority, not fit for Toorak...unlike the rest of the LR range seems to have become.