Thread: re-breathed defender

I'm going to leave it set-up as it is for a while to see how things run, as I said in its current setup it has made a hell of a difference to the tdi300 motor. wether it is the hiclone's themself, or the full combination of the way it is I'm not sure, although I'll believe the advice given due to the results!!

These pics sort of show what was done.....

Originally posted by DEFENDERZOOK
isnt the turbo the same thing as a hiclone?

it spins the air as it passes through it a lot faster than a hiclone will....

have you tried it without the hiclones to see if they really make a difference?

im curious......

The hiclone, in theory, is supposed to create like a tornado effect and, again in theory, get air into the engine faster. Nylex created a garden hose with the same theory. Down the inside of the hose were a series of twisted veins which were supposed to speed the water flow up as it went, designed specifically for people who lived in areas where they had little water pressure. It didnt work for two reasons- 1) it decrased the volume of the whose, so not as much water could get through. Yest this should in theory increase pressure, but the second reason eliminated any hope of it working- 2) The veins created more surface area within the hose so more drag was created, the result, a squirt no better than a normal hose, in some cases worse.

I dont see the hiclone working for two reasons 1) the drag factor, by installing something in your air lines you are effectively restricting them, regardless of what effect it has on the flow of air, its a blockage. 2) the air may speed up as it is swirled around but there isnt any more are being fed in. With a turbo there is because it sucks are a hiclone doesnt. Matt

Originally posted by Ace+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ace)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-DEFENDERZOOK
isnt the turbo the same thing as a hiclone?

it spins the air as it passes through it a lot faster than a hiclone will....

have you tried it without the hiclones to see if they really make a difference?

im curious......

The hiclone, in theory, is supposed to create like a tornado effect and, again in theory, get air into the engine faster. Nylex created a garden hose with the same theory. Down the inside of the hose were a series of twisted veins which were supposed to speed the water flow up as it went, designed specifically for people who lived in areas where they had little water pressure. It didnt work for two reasons- 1) it decrased the volume of the whose, so not as much water could get through. Yest this should in theory increase pressure, but the second reason eliminated any hope of it working- 2) The veins created more surface area within the hose so more drag was created, the result, a squirt no better than a normal hose, in some cases worse.

I dont see the hiclone working for two reasons 1) the drag factor, by installing something in your air lines you are effectively restricting them, regardless of what effect it has on the flow of air, its a blockage. 2) the air may speed up as it is swirled around but there isnt any more are being fed in. With a turbo there is because it sucks are a hiclone doesnt. Matt[/b][/quote]


A turbo uses exhaust pressure to spin an impeller and that in turn is attached to the intake which then pushes air in at a faster rate. A hyclone is a device used to create better airflow in the intake system.
The only people who say Hyclones work are people who have had them fitted by a person who knows and understands them, everyone else either has had them fitted incorrectly or is running the toyota theory on landrovers and believes what the other sheep do.

I have no opinion on them as I have never tried them, but I am not willing to say they do not work unless I know for sure.

Oh and for the comment on the bashed in bit not having any effect on the performance, think again every nook and cranny in the intake system will affect the performance, every corner creates restricted flow and the corrigated joins restrict the flow even more.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Oh and for the comment on the bashed in bit not having any effect on the performance, think again every nook and cranny in the intake system will affect the performance, every corner creates restricted flow and the corrigated joins restrict the flow even more.
[/b][/quote]

I stand by my comments, having played around (extensively) on the dyno in the past with similar things.
The small reduction in cross section at that point will result in an increase in velocity of the air at that point, and I'm willing to bet that pressure and flow volume either side of the reduction are practically the same. I doubt very much if you would see any measurable difference in performance. Its a case of diminishing returns. Without doing any maths, I'm guessing the flow potential of that tube greatly exceeds the flow required at 4000RPM.

The best cylinder head porter I used to know (supplied HRT, Gibson Motorsport, etc) used to use the smallest possible cross section (within reason) in inlet ports (and manifolds) to obtain maximum velocity, paying the most attention to just above the inlet valve (throat area), and just below in the combustion chamber ( a very critical area)
Generally speaking, we proved time and again that smoothing and enlarging straight sections was a waste of time and effort and detrimental to power and torque. (naturally aspirated) I still have an English big port Formula Ford head, ports enlarged and polished to the max that was 8 horsepower down on our small port head at 6500 RPM. This in an engine that only develops 110 HP at the flywheel.
It looks fast, and I think it even flowed OK on the flow bench (too long ago in another lifetime) but it didn't work !
Even port matching the inlet manifold on a Formula Ford did bugger all, but I used to do it, because it just didn't look right otherwise :roll:

Of course we stumbled across a couple of tweaks on those small engines that just didn't make sense, but made more power....yes, my mate and I patted ourselves on our backs and told each other how clever we were, but it was shear arse. :wink: It was to do with airflow into the carburettor, it was a mod to fit a certain air cleaner into a cars air box, and I still can't believe it did what it did.

Something that definately does work, and that you can feel is to tweak the injector pump, and/or fit MTQ's Mitsubishi TDO4 turbo for 20% more torque/power.

I agree with what you say, but the differnce between what you are talking and and an off the shelf vehicle is a different world, I had an AU Falcon which I ended up redoing the whole intake system reducing the snake effect that they put in there from factory (corners and varying diameter and shape) and I gained an extra klm per litre and had better response at the pedal. Generally production vehicles are starved through the exhaust and the intake on purpose to conform with the sooky la-la laws :wink: :wink:

Hi all

Everyone has their own views on how each part works but I am the one behind the wheel, and there is a substantial difference on bottom end power, I am yet to see on economy.

I have had the varying aspects of the hiclones explained to me and I am happy with the concept on how they work. As I said, I have relied on advice from someone on how to fit them, I explained what improvements I wanted from the motor (bottom end power and hwy economy) and he set them up that way for me. At the end of the day, as others have said, if the air flow is better, the motor doesn't have to work for the air and has better output as a result.

If any-one who drives a 300TDI is passing through Alice Springs, I am more than happy to let them try for them self's.



Cheers