help needed to save our manufacturing.

If you are talking the car industries - Germany and the USA have car industries. Australia has never really had a viable car industry - we have had branches of overseas companies set up here to manufacture here, either because of import restrictions, or government handouts, or both. They have the advantage of head office resources in technology, design, marketing, patents, parts, markets, and money. Australian manufacturers (and lots have tried), lacking these resources, have never been successful.

This is why Australia has never had a car manufacturing industry (apart from small branches of overseas manufacturers), and we simply do not have a large enough market. Every manufacturer is based in a country with a large market - and gone from there to exporting. And this is also why Australians are reluctant to agree to government support for them. Similar points apply to some other manufacturing industries.

But at least Arrium is Australian owned.

John

Where do the euroes now sell a majority of their vehicles produced?
It's not locally where the Passat in Germany sells less than a territory in oz, it's in China , who are now the worlds biggest car consumer.
Honestly a territory would sell very well there as would a falcon or commodore, but no push from any pollie of any colour.

Yes Arrium timed their mine purchase wrong and have a heavy loan, but compare govts support across the sea, sino has had $50 billion wiped! And that's just one company, there are over 100 more that a lot are saying are over leveraged but are either having loans reduced or rolled over to stop massive unemployment in those regions.

Not true Frantic, with respect to cars.
Car companies make their own decisions.
NO-ONE tried harder than Holden to get the Monaro, Commodore and the Caprice into the U.S. Markets. None of them were successful.
Do you know the major reason why the marketing of those cars to the U.S. was not successful. GM U.S. did not want those cars there, because of the fear that their introduction may affect sales, and production of the U.S. manufactured product, and this was a view that the U.S. auto unions took also. NOTHING to do with any Aussie Govt whatsoever.
The Territory has always been an awesome vehicle, it would've been a great success, IMHO, in the States,...but AGAIN, no support for it, AT ALL, from Ford U.S.,..for the same reason,...Nothing to do with Aussie at all.
You still haven't told me how long you've been at Whyalla, & what the current vibes are,.....I guess I can eventually read about it in the press, I just would have welcomed an opinion from someone who's "on the ground"?
Pickles.

Pickles in saying you where from brissy, I was having a dig, as both your and my location is clearly stated in the top right corner.
If you don't know where the Illawarra is google it ;)
Largest steelworks in oz used to do 5.2 mtpa now about 2.6.
We've been through for the last 5 years and also more intense the last 7 months what Arrium are also going through.
Threatening closure November 2015 before that in 2011.
Pay freeze for 3 years.
Manning cut again, in some instances to far.
EBA signed
Shift workers lost money.
Payroll tax held for 3 years
But now company profitable?

Whilst we are not direct competition to Arrium, we suffer the same from Chinese dumping and slow reaction. Arrium mainly make rod and bar/rail where we do flat products, strip , coil ,slab and plate.


Why only try for USA for GMH? why not china as its closer and now a larger market.
The other thing is both the commodore and falcon where unique in having rear wheel drive as a vast majority of both those companies sedan models where FWD.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frantic

Pickles in saying you where from brissy, I was having a dig, as both your and my location is clearly stated in the top right corner.
If you don't know where the Illawarra is google it ;)
Largest steelworks in oz used to do 5.2 mtpa now about 2.6.
We've been through for the last 5 years and also more intense the last 7 months what Arrium are also going through.
Threatening closure November 2015 before that in 2011.
Pay freeze for 3 years.
Manning cut again, in some instances to far.
EBA signed
Shift workers lost money.
Payroll tax held for 3 years
But now company profitable?

Whilst we are not direct competition to Arrium, we suffer the same from Chinese dumping and slow reaction. Arrium mainly make rod and bar/rail where we do flat products, strip , coil ,slab and plate.


Why only try for USA for GMH? why not china as its closer and now a larger market.
The other thing is both the commodore and falcon where unique in having rear wheel drive as a vast majority of both those companies sedan models where FWD.

---

Thanks for that info. More "on the ground" stuff would be good.
Holden did try to get the Statesman into China,..again no support from GM who were/are getting their own stuff in there. Yes, I get your point about FWD, that's the way the world is going, but once again, that's Holden/GM's problem, nothing to do with the Aussie Govt support, WHICHEVER Govt is in the chair.
I've been a Holden man for years, I've been involved with Holden through my job, my interest in cars, motor racing etc, and I've known & spoken to HEAPS of Execs etc, so I know quite a lot about what they were trying to do (just as you do re the steel industry),....so, what I'm saying is that no company could've tried harder than Holden to get an export program on the road, because they knew it was the key to their survival.
Take the case of our CV8 Monaro?GTO. That was a brilliant car, but it was marketed in the USA under the unpopular Pontiac brand name,...and it did not get the proper P.R. support from G.M...so sales were poor. It is only now that enthusiasts are becoming aware of how good that car is, with comments like, "the finish on this car is far better than what our stuff is",....etc etc.......but like I said, No real enthusiasm to promote & support the product from GM U.S.
I can't tell you how many other Aussie manufacturers/industies have been affected by this sort of stuff, but that was certainly the case with Holden. They tried, BIG TIME,...but without success.
Regards, Pickles.
NB: Ya'd have to be a fool not to care about our steel industry. Everyone that cares about Aussie, and takes even a scrap of interest about what's going on, would be concerned (about where all this is going to end up). So I'll be following the issue with concern.

The problem with our manufacturing is that some of it is making stuff, such as vehicles, in which we do not have a natural advantage. We should be shifting our manufacturing to making products in which we do have a natural advantage, such as equipment for renewable energy.
If we made smart moves to establish a viable base home market then that can support exports. For example, we are now exporting billions of dollars of gas because back in 1995 the Queensland Government required 15% of Queensland's electricity to be generated from gas, which made the investment viable to get the industry going and chase export markets.
We have ample sunshine and wind and we should be focusing on products for renewable energy, which could then underpin our exports.
You only have to look at Thailand which became the 'Detroit of Asia' by protecting local vehicle sales from imports so the car companies were prepared to invest there. Thailand then focused on economy cars and utilities and has now cornered the world market in them.
China built up its ,manufacturing industries to become the world's factory by freezing the value of the yuan and by government financial support for the funds needed to establish local manufacturing industries. Now that they are established, they are moving on to other fields.
Free market advocates might scoff, but the fact is that the world is not a level playing field and if you want to become a player you have to create reasons why products should be made in your country rather than somewhere else.
Unfortunately, our current politicians are too fixated with short-term vote-buying to take the required long-term view.

Nice summary Mick!

Pickles, you're right that government support or lack of had no direct bearing on whether Holden was successful or not in getting their cars into the US or China, but you're still missing the point and not looking at the bigger picture.

Australia allows all manner of products into the country at virtually no cost to the foreign manufacturer.

That situation is simply not reciprocated should a manufacturer here want to export their product somewhere else.

Diesel, I ALWAYS look at the "bigger picture". That's why I mentioned the Holden issue, because the "bigger picture" there, was not about Govt support.
Yes, The bigger picture is what is important for sure, but it's not all about Govt support,....sometimes it can sometimes we can't.
There's been lots of talk about being "innovative", "moving forward", "looking to the future", and yes, "the big picture",....yes,..all relevant,...but who's doing that,...We as Aussies, have to "take up the cudgels", but, the problem is, it ain't easy.
Yes, it is about "the big picture" ......I for one, do not even pretend to know the answer
Pickles.
This is not a "Political" thread, but I will say this, that whoever runs the country for the next term, will be in for a very challenging period. Very challenging. Anyone who is really aware of the "big picture", not just "their picture" will realize how challenging it will be.

Needs good leadership. For example, investment in renewable energy has plummeted under the current government, which is indebted to the backward-looking coal industry. Instead, we need to focus on renewables because there are great opportunities there for new manufacturing jobs.

Most of the Holden models have been in the USA. Just branded GM and different models. Caprice/Malibu/Chevelle, Commodore/Pontiac GTO, etc...