help needed to save our manufacturing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cuppabillytea

Same old mantra, nothing new, nothing to back it up, just a lot of old Shock Jock style Bollocks, gleaned from fact free propaganda rags. I've had enough.

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Yup same old pickles, no links to any factual site opinion, without a base in reality.


Last time you spoke about "workers on $200k" in building site's they turnt out to be sparkies doing 60-72hrs a week shiftwork, 24/7 for 3-18 months on a specialty building site. The point you totally fail to grasp is the 3-18months bit.


After 18 months if they cannot get another construction job locally they move interstate or there is no new buildings going up, their back doing domestic on basic wages for whatever they get, maybe 1/4 -1/2 what they got in construction.


Again, again, again this has SFA to do with manufacturing.

It has EVERYTHING to do with manufacturing,...but I guess that you don't understand how that can be, and how these exhorbitant increases do not do anything to help our competitiveness.
Facts & Figures?....I've provided 'em, but anyone can read same in the Press, if they're interested enough.
I'm sorry that you don't understand mate, and as long as people with that frame of mind do NOT understand, Aussie manufacturing will go down, & down & down,.....but of course I understand that it's all the Govt's fault,...yeah right.
And, I still hope you steel guys come out OK,...but I don't somehow think you'll be getting 15% over 3 yrs with no productivity gains,...I'd be VERY confident about that.
Pickles.

Blah , no evidence
Blah, pay rates to high for mua, hang on their on less than me, WHOOPS can't say my wage paid to my replacement as its about 50-100% more than a wharfie at avg $125,000 range from $88k-$189k http://www.payscale.com/research/AU/...Manager/Salary
Quick time to change tack. How about you name the years you didn't get a pay rise?
Blah more POLITICAL opinion about not govt fault not only no evidence but contrary to ANY published evidence from overseas.
Could pickles with his wealth of opinions name ( with a link ;))1 western country doing less to protect and help its steel/ manufacturing industries?
Please just one?
1?

Lol.
If you don't think $200K PLUS benefits is too dear, I rest my case.
TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS,...PLUS BENEFITS....reasonable?..Yeah right.
Pickles.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pickles2

Lol.
If you don't think $200K PLUS benefits is too dear, I rest my case.
TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS,...PLUS BENEFITS....reasonable?..Yeah right.
Pickles.

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No link, no evidence = fantasy cows manure.
And here's a link to prove the falicy your spouting.
https://www.designandconstruct.com.a...rvey-employers
How is a worker according to you on 200k, when the leading hand is on $95k and the foreman/general forman are on 120-150k?
I call bull****.


Still No answer to my question , Could pickles with his wealth of opinions name ( with a link ;))1 western country doing less to protect and help its steel/ manufacturing industries?
Please just one?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by frantic

No link, no evidence = fantasy cows manure.
And here's a link to prove the falicy your spouting.
https://www.designandconstruct.com.a...rvey-employers
How is a worker according to you on 200k, when the leading hand is on $95k and the foreman/general forman are on 120-150k?
I call bull****.


Still No answer to my question , Could pickles with his wealth of opinions name ( with a link ;))1 western country doing less to protect and help its steel/ manufacturing industries?
Please just one?

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No B.S.mate, simply fact, that you don't want to know about. I guess you never heard about the "rates" paid to workers involved in the Vic Desalination plant a few years ago either did you,....that was all over the press too,...but I guess you never read it.
Comparisons?...To be honest Frantic, I don't know.
BUT, neither do you, because whilst you are the best man on the Forum for figures (I do admit that) the comparisons that you invariably put up talk about economies that are totally different in workforce, population & GDP to us, making your "comparisons", worthless.
I say again $200k P.A. PLUS benefits is way over the top, and I would ask any forum members silly enough to read this, what do they think. Plenty of self employed carpenters would LOVE to be making those sorts of dollars.
Pickles.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pickles2

No B.S.mate, simply fact, that you don't want to know about. I guess you never heard about the "rates" paid to workers involved in the Vic Desalination plant a few years ago either did you,....that was all over the press too,...but I guess you never read it.
Comparisons?...To be honest Frantic, I don't know.
BUT, neither do you, because whilst you are the best man on the Forum for figures (I do admit that) the comparisons that you invariably put up talk about economies that are totally different in workforce, population & GDP to us, making your "comparisons", worthless.
I say again $200k P.A. PLUS benefits is way over the top, and I would ask any forum members silly enough to read this, what do they think. Plenty of self employed carpenters would LOVE to be making those sorts of dollars.
Pickles.

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It's still BS mate, I'm sorry - I worked on the Desal project along with plenty of others (but only for a few weeks unfortunately ;)). Money was good, yes, but $200 - dreamin'. Maybe some Management, etc, but not the hands on workers - around the equivilant of $160K (Including benefits) if you worked a full year there (as a tradie) - most didn't, only in and out to do their bit - like me. Take out the $600 + (just for accomodation and meals) a week it cost to live down there while you were away and it it added up to the same as doing a job in Melbuorne.

You still have shown nothing to back up your claims, not that I will, but I could show you a payslip, so I know - and have - first hand evidence of what the rates were on that project.

I wasn't just a ****kicker either - Special Class Electrician supervising and advising on part of the power supply project for part of the build.

As you said - you've 'heard' about the rates paid there - much like the fish your mate caught on the weekend, it gets bigger with each telling. I'm sure in 5 years people will be saying we got paid a million dollars a year down there.

Give me strength...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pickles2

Lol.
If you don't think $200K PLUS benefits is too dear, I rest my case.
TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS,...PLUS BENEFITS....reasonable?..Yeah right.
Pickles.

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OK, I'll bite again (I gave up several posts back when I realised I'd just be doing this: :wallbash:)

Anyway, since you keep mentioning it, yes I actually agree with you and in my opinion I would say that $200k is excessive for your 'average' worker on a site or in a plant. Note, this is NOT fact, just my opinion.

However, as lots of people have tried to point out to you the "$200k average" worker is UTTER BOLLOCKS and again as people tried to point out to you, the CFMEU ISN'T INVOLVED IN MANUFACTURING!

As an aside, I'm sure there are trades where certain specialties/skills/danger would demand pay near that, and I wouldn't begrudge them if that's what they got.

I understand the point that you're trying (very badly) to explain in that the relatively high wages in Oz won't help manufacturing and don't help our competitiveness globally.

HOWEVER this is only one aspect, the other is help from the government. This 'help' takes many forms and, despite myself and others explaining more than once, you seem to only equate government help with direct monetary support from Oz gov't to Oz industry and ignore the regulatory 'help' that other governments put in place to provide support to their industry.

Regulatory help that our government (of both persuasions) doesn't do, placing our manufacturing at a further disadvantage.

Diesel, CFMEU IS involved in manufacturing,...indirectly.
Someone wants to build a new factory, any new industrial factory/building etc,...they are involved, and the cost of wages & conditions will DIRECTLY affect the cost of that building, which costs have to be covered by the end product manufactured by that company.
I also do not deny your "badly" comment!,.....but nor do I retract from the message I'm trying to get across, no matter how badly.
Generally, I also believe that living conditions, benefits that we ALL enjoy (incl me) at the moment are unsustainable. Today will be as good as it gets,..I see a downward path from here, how far down I don't know, but downwards, and I certainly don't see wage claims of the level being discussed here, any help in correcting that.
It will be interesting to see what conditions are negotiated at Whyalla in efforts to revive it.
Pickles.

I'll be blunt.
With pickles, he's a believer.
He will believe the front page of a toilet paper rag over a bloke who worked there, thanks homestar, and the sites actual EBA!
Yes the EBA, as pickles could be having a recall issue, but we went down this path in CA ages ago, until the EBA was posted that clearly showed a tradie needed to work insane hours 7 days a week for 12 months.
Problem is once evidence backed by fact is presented he changed tack and goes off on a parallel ignoring the previous facts to roll the false claims into the new issue.
Show wages are about 2-5% of manufacturing costs in certain industries ignore.
So show mua avg wage lower than his, ignore,
Then show continued quoting of a paper article on vic desal is false by both EBA and an actual employee, ignore.
Show we have frozen wages for 3 years and actually lost money, ignore.
Ask for any other nation doing so little, ignore.
Now Canada has similar population per square km , similar gdp, similar export raw materials , similar welfare and Medicare, yet has a 90% govt project mandate, ignore.

Pickles repeating the same claims when they are proven false is trolling, and will be treated that way.
Maybe this evidence will put a nail in you spouting fibs, but I doubt you'll believe the ABS over a papers front page as it won't suit your opinions. Again a 5% pay rise increase cost of a building 1% , when the average cost has gone up 11.7. So who is pocketing the other 10.7%?
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@....2?opendocument


EXPENDITURE

During 2011-12, Construction businesses incurred $275.4b in total expenses of which purchases accounted for 29.8% (or $82.1b), followed by payments to other businesses for trade services, building and construction work with 28.2% (or $77.7b).

Labour costs accounted for 21.9% (or $60.4b) of total expenses. This represents an average labour cost per person employed for all in scope Construction businesses of $63.6k. Heavy and civil engineering construction recorded higher labour costs per person employed with $113.5k followed by Building construction ($66.6k) and Construction services ($50.7k).