Autonomous Vehicles

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Originally Posted by Mick_Marsh

I would never put my legal rights and responsibilities in the hands of an algorithm written by others.
If what you say is correct, I would suggest autonomous vehicles will only ever be a niche market.

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Yes but you're getting older every day and within a few decades you and all the competent drivers on the road today will no longer be as competent. Who will want to go through the fuss of driver training to be able to compete with autonomous vehicles? Driving your own car will be a niche market within 25-50 years.

Unless somehow the population growth is curbed , where in fifty years will you actually be able to drive or park. One of the projections estimates about 10 billion people with the great majority in urban areas. At that rate you would be having a hard time just walking about.

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Originally Posted by trog

Unless somehow the population growth is curbed , where in fifty years will you actually be able to drive or park. One of the projections estimates about 10 billion people with the great majority in urban areas. At that rate you would be having a hard time just walking about.

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Our population density is low by world standards. Pick a densely populated mega-city like Hong Kong, Shanghai or Bangkok and you will find there are still lots of cars around.
In future they will be mostly electric. There will be software for guided travel, maybe autonomous. Think electric Smart cars maybe. Plus autonomous electric Ubers you just text to come on demand.

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

I think there might be legal reasons why manufacturers might be reluctant to remove operator controls from autonomous vehicles. The companies might try to protect themselves from being sued after an accident by saying it was operator error because the human failed to intervene to prevent the crash. Already it seems Uber might be trying to shift the blame for that fatality to the driver by allowing his criminal record to be published. So, having driver override controls might shift the legal liability from manufacturer to operator.
This is already a common defence with other machinery accidents. If I cut my leg off with a circular saw the company's lawyers would say it was operator error and the manufacturer is not liable. Same argument could be applied to autonomous vehicles with manual override controls.

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Renault have prototypes right now they are testing (not on open roads) with no driver controls at all - just 5 seats, nothing else. It’s the holy grail for those developing the tech - they call it level 5 autonomy. Looooong way to go as the Uber in question is level 2 I think.

Hands up who’re get in a Renault with no steering wheel? It may be ok as the engines never run for too long anyway... [emoji38]

Having done a bit of reading lately on the technology involved, I conclude that autonomous vehicles in the true sense (no driver controls) will happen eventually, but are a long way off - 50yrs +.

I think self driving cars in special circumstances, such as freeway driving, will be much sooner, perhaps within ten years - technically, we are nearly there, but cost and legal problems still need to be solved. The current lidar used, for example, costs around $75,000, and is probably not robust enough to go into a mass produced car. Cost is likely to come down rapidly for some new technologies, but these are not even demonstrated at the level of accuracy needed. Target is ~$100, but this would need someone to commit to mass production, something that is unlikely until demonstration units have been tested.

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

I think there might be legal reasons why manufacturers might be reluctant to remove operator controls from autonomous vehicles. The companies might try to protect themselves from being sued after an accident by saying it was operator error because the human failed to intervene to prevent the crash. Already it seems Uber might be trying to shift the blame for that fatality to the driver by allowing his criminal record to be published. So, having driver override controls might shift the legal liability from manufacturer to operator.
This is already a common defence with other machinery accidents. If I cut my leg off with a circular saw the company's lawyers would say it was operator error and the manufacturer is not liable. Same argument could be applied to autonomous vehicles with manual override controls.

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...so...the ‘drivers’ criminal record has been released by his employer prior to being found guilty?! I suppose it was tweeted and/or on Facebook too? ...another massive issue with semi-autonomous technology (social media). Where are the controls preventing media and big business led trial by media and/or protection of the innocent? ...kinda like a driverless vehicle out of control. The innocent are placed in a position they can’t control.

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Originally Posted by Zeros

...so...the ‘drivers’ criminal record has been released by his employer prior to being found guilty?! I suppose it was tweeted and/or on Facebook too? ...another massive issue with semi-autonomous technology (social media). Where are the controls preventing media and big business led trial by media and/or protection of the innocent? ...kinda like a driverless vehicle out of control. The innocent are placed in a position they can’t control.

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The drivers criminal record is irrelevant.
Ubers business practices, however, that is another story.

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Originally Posted by Zeros

...so...the ‘drivers’ criminal record has been released by his employer prior to being found guilty?! I suppose it was tweeted and/or on Facebook too? ...another massive issue with semi-autonomous technology (social media). Where are the controls preventing media and big business led trial by media and/or protection of the innocent? ...kinda like a driverless vehicle out of control. The innocent are placed in a position they can’t control.

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American law is different to Australian law, allowing criminal history to be public before even charged.
I reckon if I was the driver I would assume Uber would plan to let me take the rap for the death, rather than stand up to defend me.

...and there we have one of the biggest issues with autonomous vehicles... why should a human take the rap for an autonomous vehicle that is at fault? which is partly why I don't think private vehicles will ever be fully autonomous. If uber or other companies ever run truly autonomous vehicles in the future they will have no choice but to take responsibility for what those vehicles do. ...it will be the only way anyone will ever get in one.

Yes, when you think of the current restrictions on activities imposed by liability problems, why is it a stretch to imagine these preventing autonomous vehicles?