Let's change the way we look at speed.

It's called escalated commitment. I'd like to think the govt will change its view, but they would lose face doing so.

Speed is only a part of what kills people (but still a significant factor). Driver training, awareness, surrounding factors (drugs/alcohol/fatigue) all come into the mix too. The driver training in Germany for example sees much higher highway speeds with much less road deaths- even when adjusted for population.

Driving to Melrose this past week, the speed zones are 110km/h most of the way. This could safely (IMO) be 120 perhaps 130- which would have equated to up to 2 hours off my 13hr trip. But you need to have the training to know when to slow down (as an example, on the roads east of Balranald NSW, where the roos are in mobs of 20 on the side of the road).

I still think it's a joke that 'Bazza and Shazza' (our hypothetical bogan parents) can have a terrible driving record, and still be entrusted to teach their child to drive, AND set them loose on our roads with an unroadworthy vehicle (after doctoring more than 50% of their learner driver logbook).

While we test for BAC, drugs and speed, we can't test for stupid, we can't test for fatigue, and we are falling short on proper, structured, driver training for new drivers.

Good post Toxic.
I knew Brock very well, & He was not a fan of radar speed cameras etc, he spent a large part of his life talking about road safety etc.
He once said to me, "Martin, you can have all the speed cameras, radar, etc that you want, BUT if the driver hasn't got his brain in gear when He gets behind the wheel, none of that will make any difference".
When I got my license all those years ago, We drove a lot faster than we're allowed to do now, and the Police left us alone, UNLESS we were driving dangerously.
If ya're on the Hume say, a 110k limit, I've even heard the Police say it's safe for 130/140, and ya're doing say 120 & it's perfectly safe in the conditions to do so, why should you be booked?
We bought a 500HP AMG C63 a few years ago, BEST car I've ever owned, haven't got it now, but that car was SOOOO fast!!...I reckon that one day, out in the bush, I would've weakened, & had a "go", & with my luck there'd be Mr Plod coming the other way,....loss of car, loss of license, even though IMHO, deserted road, good driving conditions, absolutely NOT driving dangerously. Don't really have the same "temptation" in Gracie!
Anyway, laws are laws, and so I abide by 'em, don't like it, but I do.
Pickles.

I have to point out (again) some interesting figures that come out of the Easter statistics.

In the NSW western region, to take local figures, over Easter, 25,000 random breath tests were performed. 37 drivers were charged. In other words, about 0.15% of drivers are legally under the influence of alcohol (and this percentage is typical).

Yet we consistently find that of drivers involved in fatal accidents 20-50% are above the limit. In other words, drivers above the alcohol limit are more than 100 times more likely to be involved in fatal accidents. (similar figures apply to serious accidents, and quite likely to minor ones as well, but data is not complete on minor accidents). This is data from objective measurements that will stand up in court, and are made for all fatal accidents and most serious ones, not from an investigator's opinion as to the "cause" of an accident. (Bearing in mind that no accident ever has a single cause.)

This does not suggest to me that either speed or training are the most significant factor in accidents.

John

It was before my time, but i'm led to believe that the maximum speed limit on our roads hasn't increased in many years despite roads getting better, and cars becoming safer.

I'd be concerned doing 110km/h in a Kingswood, but it's entirely achievable in a new vehicle.
In one, the steering shaft shoots through your face in an accident, and the engine is in your lap... in the other, airbags deploy and crumple zones absorb a lot of the force, and for many accidents, you are relatively alive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Toxic_Avenger

It was before my time, but i'm led to believe that the maximum speed limit on our roads hasn't increased in many years despite roads getting better, and cars becoming safer.

I'd be concerned doing 110km/h in a Kingswood, but it's entirely achievable in a new vehicle.
In one, the steering shaft shoots through your face in an accident, and the engine is in your lap... in the other, airbags deploy and crumple zones absorb a lot of the force, and for many accidents, you are relatively alive.

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Not to mention that the handling and breaking in modern cars is much better. Mind you, i think your earlier point on training is the key point. I have found that I can drive my Defender 110 a lot quicker on a twisty road than some people can drive a AMG Merc. I'm not bragging either.
Of course John (Whom I revere as a font of wisdom.), has put his finger on the real demon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cuppabillytea

I have found that I can drive my Defender 110 a lot quicker on a twisty road than some people can drive a AMG Merc. I'm not bragging either.

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Are you the Stig?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Toxic_Avenger

Are you the Stig?

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Shhhhhh Give Up. No really, I would lay claim to no more than a reasonable level of competency. Others I have observed have next to none.

I find on double demerit weekends I spend more time looking at the speedo than the road when in reality I should be able to drive to the conditions in a safe manner which may include going over the posted speed limit on straight downhill sections and when overtaking slower large vehicles like trucks.
Today's vehicles are much safer and brake and handle much better than the vehicles that were on the road when these existing limits were put in place.

Actually, the roads are in many cases a lot safer than they used to be. Again, statistical data can help; just look at the safety record per kilometre of any divided road compared to any undivided road- it is way better even ignoring the fact that divided roads typically carry far more traffic.

In fact, over the last thirty years or so (and continuing) there have been vast improvements in most of the road network, even relatively minor roads. To draw attention to some of these improvements, just locally from my own experience.

1. On the Golden highway near here, unguarded level crossings now have lights. This has reduced the number of fatals from one or two a year to virtually zero at these crossings.

2. On the same stretch of road, edge markings were introduced about ten years ago - these make a big difference.

3. re-aligning of road to improve curves. This is going on all the time.

4. Sealing of unsealed roads. Again, going on all the time.

Looking at the cars on the road. Yes, safety of cars has improved, but most of these improvements come into play only when you have an accident, and do little to keep you out of having one (and if you are going to have one, a single innovation - seat belts- is the big one!). In my view the major (and some have been really major) improvements have been brakes, road holding, and, impacting in a major way on these, tyres.

As against this there are some aspects of modern car design that do not help safety.

Probably the most important of these is driver vision. I usually drive either a 110 or a Series Landrover, but any time I get into the driver seat of virtually any modern car, I am immediately struck by the poor driver visibility. There are invariably massive blind spots from the thick, low angle windscreen pillars, and almost as frequently, very poor rear visibility, often the result purely of styling, where at least the windscreen pillars have the excuse of providing structural strength.

The other, perhaps more insidious problem is the way in which the sound proofing and sound system, together with climate control, work to insulate the driver from everything that is going on outside, making it all too easy to drive at speeds way outside what is safe in the conditions, not to mention ignoring emergency vehicle sirens.

John

I wonder how many people are grateful for having a blister posted so they can avoid a breath test.