Thread: Big storm and no power in SA

lack of generation isnt SAPN's fault.

they do the distribution network. not generation or transmission.

not that im defending their performance of the distribution network either.

Originally Posted by bee utey

Aah, yes, SAPN the foreign owned operator of SA's power infrastructure that wants to raise their network charges even further, ripping hundreds of dollars off each South Australian electricity customer, straight into the pockets of a Hong Kong billionaire. Yes, I'd trust anything that came from that company, not.

SA Power Network's bid to collect more cash denied by Australian Competition Tribunal - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Maybe so. I trust the individual I know.. Whom sees the real data, the AEMO releases and the internal memos..

Originally Posted by DiscoMick

Coal will be phased out andsome gas will assist baseload and lower emissions. Renewables and battery storage will explode.
Wind and solar power are cheap once installed, and wind is holding down SA power prices.
It is coal which drives up prices when wind is lower because the coal and gas companies take advantage to withhold supply and force up spot prices to inflate their returns and gouge consumers. This is market failure.
More wind, solar and battery storage plus government intervention to prevent market failure would improve the SA situation. The national power grid must also be better inter-connected.

Not sure where to start with this one - while I agree that coal should be phased out, it isn't making power prices high, just the opposite. Hazelwood makes the cheapest power in the country.

Wind isn't cheap to maintain once installed but don't take that as me hating it, I like it, just saying it takes a lot of maintenance.

I agree the State Govenment needs to get much more involved, they are doing squat at the moment.

That's my point - power is cheaper when wind is producing and dearer when the power is coming from fossil fuels.

Originally Posted by DiscoMick

That's my point - power is cheaper when wind is producing and dearer when the power is coming from fossil fuels.

It's (wind) only cheap due to the large subsidies it currently receives....

Not one single "farm" produced over 28% in the last 24 hours...

Currently we are having a very typical weather pattern - Extreme heat and little to no wind go hand in hand here.. that's not really an effective strategy for power production under maximum load!

Originally Posted by Eevo

lack of generation isnt SAPN's fault.

they do the distribution network. not generation or transmission.

not that im defending their performance of the distribution network either.

Yes, and what are the biggest whines about SA power? Reliability and price. SAPN owns the distribution network that falls down during storm events. Their skilled but limited crews have to put it all together again when it's failed, yet again. They are part of the problem, spending too little of their ill gotten gains on actual maintenance.

Then there's AEMO who manage the integration of the network, generators etc. They write arse covering reports occasionally that neglect to mention their incompetence in planning for clearly forecasted weather events. Yes, wind power adds complexity that doesn't exist in pure fossil grid, but that's no excuse. It's 2017 and every damn unit is internet linked and predictable and people who can't manage the resources properly should step aside and let someone more competent do it.

Please note that there were no load shedding events last night, because there was indeed enough capacity online unlike the previous night. Blame it all on wind power or the lack thereof all you like, but it clearly was a system management failure, this time.

And to all the trolls giggling into their schooners about them eevil batteries, get over it. Grid sized batteries are being developed by a multitude of major companies and are being installed all over the world for real time testing. Even SA is getting a distributed battery trial by AGL where batteries are installed across a district and remotely controlled to act as a much larger single source. Distributed and intelligent grids are the future, dumb monolithic fossil fuel plants are the past.

It's pretty clear what happened.
The market failed and caused the blackouts because the company chose not to turn on the Pelican Point generation and instead the power price spiked to inflate profits at the expense of consumers.
The following day AEMO finally did what it should have done the first time and ordered the spare plant on and no blackouts happened.
Neither event proved anything about the virtues of one power source over another. It tells us nothing about coal vs. wind. Its a failure of market regulation.
The federal government has played politics and said nothing useful to improve the situation.
The state government says it is obviously on its own, can't rely on the national regulator or government, and has put out a tender to supply 75% of SA's needs. It has also threatened to nationalize the power system if that becomes necessary.
So the national government is waffling while the state government is acting.
This doesn't happen in other states. Queensland, whose power system is government-controlled, had peak demand in January and coped.


Nationalising electricity system, new power station among options for SA, Government says - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Originally Posted by bee utey

Yes, and what are the biggest whines about SA power? Reliability and price. SAPN owns the distribution network that falls down during storm events. Their skilled but limited crews have to put it all together again when it's failed, yet again. They are part of the problem, spending too little of their ill gotten gains on actual maintenance.

Then there's AEMO who manage the integration of the network, generators etc. They write arse covering reports occasionally that neglect to mention their incompetence in planning for clearly forecasted weather events. Yes, wind power adds complexity that doesn't exist in pure fossil grid, but that's no excuse. It's 2017 and every damn unit is internet linked and predictable and people who can't manage the resources properly should step aside and let someone more competent do it.

Please note that there were no load shedding events last night, because there was indeed enough capacity online unlike the previous night. Blame it all on wind power or the lack thereof all you like, but it clearly was a system management failure, this time.

in the September storm which caused the state wide black out, the problem was lack of inertia (generation) and fallen transmission lines (electranet)
both outside of SAPN's control.

but yes. SAPN's response to storms is woefull.

AEMO I think does a reasonable job. They shouldnt have to micromanage SA lack of generation issue.