Thread: Big storm and no power in SA

Originally Posted by bee utey

So why are brown coal plants closing? The old bangers can't make enough money to cover urgent repair costs?

end of life span
uncertain future due to RE handouts

Originally Posted by bee utey

So why are brown coal plants closing? The old bangers can't make enough money to cover urgent repair costs?

Engie pulled the pin on Hazelwood when the coal royalties paid to the government were trippled. Basically, the brown coal power stations are being taxed out of existance and subsidies are being paid to the wind generators.
Not a bad thing if done properly.
The problem is it was done poorly in SA. That is why they are having reliability problems.
The coal fired and gas fired (both fossil fuels) power plants should be shut down when equivalent large scale power generation systems are commissioned. Solar thermal is a good one but no one is building on to the scale required because they are expensive and not viable.

Batttery UPS systems are not viable for grid sized installations. A 0.5MW installation is about the size of a house and the toxic batteries would need to be replaced and disposed of every seven to ten years.

There is light at the end of the tunnel as long as ideology does not cloud our judgement and we plan a gradual shift from fossil fuels to low emission solutions. But, we should not be doing this at the expense of energy security and cost distortion through taxes and subsidies.

Wind, solar, coal and gas to reach similar costs by 2030: report

The problem with using large scale thermal power plants as backup is that they are at their most eficcient running for long periods flat out. They take a lot of energy and time to start producing usable power.

Gas turbines are quicker to fire up but lack the capacity. Most gas turbines I have seen are around 40MW although the large ones are about 500MW.
Victoria's thermal plants are:
Hazelwood is 1600MW
Loy Yang A is 2200MW
Loy Yang B is 1050MW
Yallourn is 1480MW
Newport is 500MW
So taking Hazelwood out of the equation is going to make a sizable dent in the equation.

Let's hope, when it is neccessary to load shed in Victoria, SA will be the first load to be shed.

Originally Posted by Mick_Marsh

Let's hope, when it is neccessary to load shed in Victoria, SA will be the first load to be shed.

i wonder how thats decided.
lets say there is a 500MW deficiency.

how do they choose where to drop from load from

Originally Posted by Eevo

i wonder how thats decided.
lets say there is a 500MW deficiency.

how do they choose where to drop from load from

dodgy software?

SA power: Load shedding in heatwave three times amount ordered, AEMO report finds - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Originally Posted by bee utey

dodgy software?

SA power: Load shedding in heatwave three times amount ordered, AEMO report finds - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

haha, that was pretty embarrassing and shouldn't have happened. be nice if the power in charge investigated.

And you think wind power is driving up electricity costs in SA? State owned coal and gas power in sunny Qld is ripping off their businesses even worse to the point where onsite diesel power is cheaper.

Rural businesses switch to diesel power as electricity prices soar - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

You can't win in this country unless you're one of a select bunch of filthy rich bastards.

Originally Posted by bee utey

And you think wind power is driving up electricity costs in SA? State owned coal and gas power in sunny Qld is ripping off their businesses even worse to the point where onsite diesel power is cheaper.

Rural businesses switch to diesel power as electricity prices soar - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

You can't win in this country unless you're one of a select bunch of filthy rich bastards.

i cant speak for the end user price, but the wholesale price in qld is pretty good

edit: actually, right now, qld has the cheapest price.

Originally Posted by Mick_Marsh

Engie pulled the pin on Hazelwood when the coal royalties paid to the government were trippled. Basically, the brown coal power stations are being taxed out of existance and subsidies are being paid to the wind generators.
Not a bad thing if done properly.
The problem is it was done poorly in SA. That is why they are having reliability problems.
The coal fired and gas fired (both fossil fuels) power plants should be shut down when equivalent large scale power generation systems are commissioned. Solar thermal is a good one but no one is building on to the scale required because they are expensive and not viable.

Batttery UPS systems are not viable for grid sized installations. A 0.5MW installation is about the size of a house and the toxic batteries would need to be replaced and disposed of every seven to ten years.

There is light at the end of the tunnel as long as ideology does not cloud our judgement and we plan a gradual shift from fossil fuels to low emission solutions. But, we should not be doing this at the expense of energy security and cost distortion through taxes and subsidies.

Wind, solar, coal and gas to reach similar costs by 2030: report

The problem with using large scale thermal power plants as backup is that they are at their most eficcient running for long periods flat out. They take a lot of energy and time to start producing usable power.

Gas turbines are quicker to fire up but lack the capacity. Most gas turbines I have seen are around 40MW although the large ones are about 500MW.
Victoria's thermal plants are:
Hazelwood is 1600MW
Loy Yang A is 2200MW
Loy Yang B is 1050MW
Yallourn is 1480MW
Newport is 500MW
So taking Hazelwood out of the equation is going to make a sizable dent in the equation.

Let's hope, when it is neccessary to load shed in Victoria, SA will be the first load to be shed.

Great post, I don't know much about power generation, but I could understand that.
Thanks, Pickles.