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Thanks mate.I don't have the answer, not smart enough. One has to be found. Somewhere between bash the **** out of them, and nurture the poor little darlings. We forget they are human beings, push the human too far, you get a result no one wants. How on earth do we think how terrorism started.Quote:
Originally Posted by scarry
Locking kids up in prison - like institutions is the wrong approach I think. Better to get them out doing something active and maybe a little dangerous so they can test their limits. Dylan Voller is going to BushMob.
Yeah that's about right. My wife and I have raised 4 children. 3 boys , one girl.It was not easy. You can't take your eye off the ball, the critical time is between about 10 and 15. You must never hit them or be physical with them,but you must be the boss. And you must be on their case 24/7. And you must be there when they stuff up, and you must support them 100%. We survived, our girl was always a little angel , the boys little arseholes. My best mates now. A hard road, but a good destination. These young blokes in the jail, have no direction, no love. But they are just as good as my boys. With the right approach.Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscoMick
I find it interesting that Voller is able to hold what seems to be quite a reasonable level of conversation in court, explaining his concerns/experiences etc about his internment and transfers etc that he's been on the receiving end of. I'm guessing that he wants action taken of those concerned.Quote:
Originally Posted by bob10
Do people realize why he is there in the first place. His violent streaks surfaced as a boy at the ripe old age of 11, (if I've read the related articles correctly), and his latest drug fueled episode included trying basically to kill a policeman by running him over. WTF.
What about all the people who have been on the receiving end of him and his actions/crimes???
I guess most will sit there and say,, well, it was the drugs that he was on, so he couldn't control what he was doing.
Its about time time people woke up.
"EVERYBODY", everybody knows drugs are illegal,,, full stop, period, end of story. So too, are all the other crimes he committed along the way.
I certainly don't agree with kids been beaten or anything, but whilst everyone's up in arms because the poor boy is strapped to a chair and has a hood on,, tough. He is like this because he persists in spitting on people. Personally, I think he's lucky someone he spat on didn't just haul out and smack him out properly. Oh that's right, prison guards do this job, so its part of it,, they'd best wear it. pffft
With that said, I do think whoever is in charge of transfers should be placed in the back of a divvy van for the 5 hour ride without air con. You wouldn't do that to a dog,,, don't do it to a person,,, regardless of how much a ****ed up arsehole they are.
Yeah, he's certainly no angel. You certainly feel for the victims. But we can't change the past. The issue is which approach is most likely to produce the most positive results for the most people in the future.
I can't see locking troubled people up in concrete yards doing much positive.
People don't change unless they see strong reasons to change. They don't change overnight either - it takes time. Actions have consequences.
It's a really difficult area of life and I admire those who feel called to try to make a difference in the lives of others.
We support a private rehab farm and over the years you see the ones who get their lives together and the others who go back into bad habits. One thing I can say is all of them were better off on the farm than they were in prison.
I'd forgotten about the farms Mick, I certainly feel they are a better option from what I've seen.
I watched a program years ago on one, cant remember where it was exactly,, it could have been either QLD or NT. I remember them having several young boys there, the owners were hell bent on getting them right, some successful, some not so,,, or at least not at that point anyway. This was not a "black or white" thing, there were licorice all sorts there.
With this in mind, perhaps Voller may have gone a different way when first arrested at the age of 11, if he had been placed somewhere like a farm.
Of course, this would probably stir up more issues with others and the connection or relationship to the "stolen" generation type scenario. However, when Asians etc are at the farms to, one could hardly use that as an argument. And I'm sure there are those that will just say, "its just cheap labour for the farm owner", or something similar. If its a worry like that, then they only need the correct vetting to ensure alls fair and above board.
It would be tough love to send boys, (and girls) to farms when at such a young age, but if their parents are not up to the task of supplying discipline to their children at the right times, then at the first available opportunity, perhaps the Govt should step in and take over,,, committal to such a farm at a young age would be life changing for the good IMHO.
The people who run these are committed like no other when it comes to getting kids "right". Something I'm sure most criminal institutions are severely lacking,,, but remember, the kids are there because they've done the wrong thing, and guards are hired on that basis,,, not because they want to help as such,,, its a job. Breaking the cycle is whats needed, absolutely, but for most at this point it could be construed as being too little too late.
The ABC's Landline has had several shows on this, where indigenous owners take the young boys and teach them more than just how to work cattle/livestock. With great success.
Why just farms ? There are plenty of tasks that could be achieved in the urban landscape. Rubbish removal of streams and parks , home maintainence for those unable etc.
Exactly,though it needs to be very well controlled.Quote:
Originally Posted by trog
There were work camps for prisoners, on their way back into society, in western Qld,they were at Charleville and Dirranbandi,doing road work,etc.
Don't know if they are still there.
What would you say to his next victim?Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscoMick
Agreed, however I think for the most part, being on these large farms away from the hustle and bustle of city type life/atmosphere is where a lot of good is probably done.Quote:
Originally Posted by trog
I think if you were to take young teenagers (10-15?) when the problems seem to first start, and "I" think, getting in very early could be the key, as their already subject in their own mainstream lives to peer pressure and a lack of discipline. If you were to place them in areas where outside influences can interrupt the process again, things like snide remarks and jeers from passer-bys etc, it would be just asking for trouble.
The other thing that would be of major concern,,, what if they try to do a runner? If they are in an area they know nothing about, they could do extreme damage. It also stand for those that may already be very street wise,,, which is getting younger and younger every year.
On the farms, its very "lifestyle" orientated, which I think is good for them. They have their own jobs they have to do, and when they don't, their peers put pressure on them to conform so to speak.
Its interesting when you look at the Voller case, like many, he is very critical of how "he" was treated,,, forgetting the fact of how he treated people. When they are together and working together as a team, they all like to be on an equal footing, keeping it fair and just.